Vote on Obsession with confession(1st John 1:9,sin confession)

[BenFTW]

Ben, between you and I, I know we can go past salvation. We both know we are eternally saved and we don't need to confess our sins to maintain salvation,prove salvation or even work at quitting sin.

But we can quench or grieve the Spirit.........step out of Gods plan for our lives.

As believers we need to recognize when and where we stepped out of His plan for our lives.

Believers confessing their sin to God..... is the believer stopping and recognizing where they stepped out of His pre-designed plan for that particular individual. It is for our benefit, not His. We will live in fear, guilt, worry, if we live in overt sin or if we try to live in our own "good" deeds.

confessing our sin to God, is naming and siting anything that we have done apart from Him or faith....... Quenching or grieving the Spirit.

This brings us back into His pre-designed plan for the believer. It has nothing to with our salvation in Christ, but everything to do with Glorifying Him in our own personal volition in this present age.

I can see that perspective, and I believe we can be completely open in our relationship with the Lord. If we are struggling, we need to renew our minds. Sure there can be deep seated reasons behind why you are struggling with a particular sin and the Lord can reveal them to you and help to set you free (from those mental strongholds). Even so, He can go further and simply set you free by awakening you to righteousness, who you are in Jesus Christ by imputation.

Sin confession for most people is not just being open with the Lord but is a necessity in their walk or else. It is fear based. If they don't confess their sins they are in danger. This isn't healthy, as you would agree. As far as grieving the Holy Spirit, I see it as twofold. He is a person, with personal feelings and so how we treat Him brings an emotional response with it. Also, and then, we grieve Him because He cares for us, our actions have consequences and He wants us to walk in righteousness (to avoid those natural consequences).

Sin confession to the degree of just being open with the Lord, not hiding things, is fine. "If our hearts condemn us not, then we have confidence towards God." You should be completely open with the Lord because there is no condemnation in Jesus Christ. It is not like being a criminal and going to the court and they penalize you. You are going to your heavenly Father and He cares for your well being. So yes, be open but just realize that sin confession for forgiveness' sake is equivalent to the yearly sacrifices of Israel instead of simply trusting in the finished work of Jesus Christ (that took away sin, once and for all).

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

HeRoseFromTheDead, why are you quoting my post in a different thread and replying to it here? Also, why do you keep re-posting and addressing it multiple times? Its awkward. lol

Because you issued a challenge, which I answered, and you haven't yet addressed that fact. I imagine that it is a bit awkward for you.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

IDK
Maybe some just are not going to accept the bible saying there Is now no more condemnation to them that are In CHRIST JESUS.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So yes, be open but just realize that sin confession for forgiveness' sake is equivalent to the yearly sacrifices of Israel instead of simply trusting in the finished [/COLOR]work of Jesus Christ (that took away sin, once and for all).

No, it's not. No one confessed sin or offered sacrifices on the day of atonement except the high priest. Every other day, Israelites themselves could offer personal sacrifices and confessions for their sins.

Hebrews 10 is about the national sacrifices of the daily burnt offering and the yearly sacrifices on the day of atonement that forgave the sins of the nation.

Personal confessions and sacrifices were for law breakers' restoration to the nation.

 

[BenFTW]

Because you issued a challenge, which I answered, and you haven't yet addressed that fact. I imagine that it is a bit awkward for you.

No, your repetitiveness is what I found to be awkward. The reason I didn't respond to you is for the very reason that FreeNChist responded with the answer I was going to give. The context of the verse clearly reveals Jesus is speaking of non-believers. Jesus, Himself, even elaborated on precisely what He meant in regards to sin conviction by the Holy Spirit ("because they believe NOT on Me."). Do you believe in Jesus Christ? Then this verse isn't applicable to you, unless you're an unbeliever.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No, your repetitiveness is what I found to be awkward. The reason I didn't respond to you is for the very reason that FreeNChist responded with the answer I was going to give. The context of the verse clearly reveals Jesus is speaking of non-believers. Jesus, Himself, even elaborated on precisely what He meant in regards to sin conviction by the Holy Spirit ("because they believe NOT on Me."). Do you believe in Jesus Christ? Then this verse isn't applicable to you, unless you're an unbeliever.

But your challenge was to provide a verse that showed the holy spirit convicts believers of sin. I did that in more than one instance. To focus simply on John 16:8 and ignore the others I find disingenuous. The principle is the same regardless: the holy spirit convicts all men of sin, believers or not.

 

[BenFTW]

No, it's not. No one confessed sin or offered sacrifices on the day of atonement except the high priest. Every other day, Israelites themselves could offer personal sacrifices and confessions for their sins.

Hebrews 10 is about the national sacrifices of the daily burnt offering and the yearly sacrifices on the day of atonement that forgave the sins of the nation.

Personal confessions and sacrifices were for law breakers' restoration to the nation.

You're emphasizing my point even greater. You're showing it to be an old testament principle of dealing with sin, and not the way it is dealt with in the new covenant (by the blood of Jesus Christ). The similarity is in the continual process of being unclean to clean, where as in Christ you are clean indefinitely because His blood washes over you. His one time sacrifice to take away sin, once and for all.

Hebrews addresses the very concept of what sin confession does, ironically, though it was referencing sacrifices. It says to not make Jesus' blood common like the blood of bulls and goats. Our forgiveness is found in Jesus Christ, not continual sacrifices for the sake of forgiveness because Jesus took care of it at the cross (otherwise He would've had to suffer since the foundation of the world, as scripture states). In the same way sin confession for forgiveness makes Jesus' blood common in likeness to that of the blood of bulls and goats, only able to temporarily deal with sin when in fact Jesus' blood isn't common and has dealt with sin altogether once and for all (not covering, but taking it away).

So you see, that is the similarity of sin confession and sacrifices. Sin confession (for forgiveness) makes Jesus' blood common, it is only good until the next sin. Then you need to clean up again like that of the sacrifices. But no, His blood is not common and it has officially dealt with sin. Not a continual process, but a one time sacrifice for all sin. In the OT fresh sin required fresh blood, in the NT fresh sin is washed in the blood of Jesus Christ by His one time sacrifice. He isn't like the priest of old, He did it once and is our eternal High Priest ever interceding on our behalf (by His one sacrifice).

 

[Grace777x70]

There are many meanings to the greek word ἐλέγχω elegcho

It does not always refer to sin...We must read the context to get the meaning of the word..greek is a very descriptive language...but it's general usage is to reprove and convince..King Jimmie uses convict only one time

“to find fault with, correct”; a. by word; “to reprehend severely, chide, admonish, reprove, to convict, refute, confute,, contextually, “to call to account, show one his fault,” demand an explanation,by deed; “to chasten, punish
Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament.


English Words used in KJV:
reprove 6
rebuke 5
convince 4
tell (one's) fault 1
convict 1
[Total Count: 17]

of uncertain affinity; to confute, admonish :- convict, convince, tell a fault, rebuke, reprove

Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

Here are some other places where the exact same word was used.

Ephesians 5:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;


2 Timothy 4:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

1 Corinthians 14:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

Titus 1:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

James 2:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Ephesians 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light.

 

[blondieindahouse]

You're emphasizing my point even greater. You're showing it to be an old testament principle of dealing with sin, and not the way it is dealt with in the new covenant (by the blood of Jesus Christ). The similarity is in the continual process of being unclean to clean, where as in Christ you are clean indefinitely because His blood washes over you. His one time sacrifice to take away sin, once and for all.

Hebrews addresses the very concept of what sin confession does, ironically, though it was referencing sacrifices. It says to not make Jesus' blood common like the blood of bulls and goats. Our forgiveness is found in Jesus Christ, not continual sacrifices for the sake of forgiveness because Jesus took care of it at the cross (otherwise He would've had to suffer since the foundation of the world, as scripture states). In the same way sin confession for forgiveness makes Jesus' blood common in likeness to that of the blood of bulls and goats, only able to temporarily deal with sin when in fact Jesus' blood isn't common and has dealt with sin altogether once and for all (not covering, but taking it away).

So you see, that is the similarity of sin confession and sacrifices. Sin confession (for forgiveness) makes Jesus' blood common, it is only good until the next sin. Then you need to clean up again like that of the sacrifices. But no, His blood is not common and it has officially dealt with sin. Not a continual process, but a one time sacrifice for all sin. In the OT fresh sin required fresh blood, in the NT fresh sin is washed in the blood of Jesus Christ by His one time sacrifice. He isn't like the priest of old, He did it once and is our eternal High Priest ever interceding on our behalf (by His one sacrifice).

When God chastens you, what is your natural reaction?

 

[Grace777x70]

The Lord through the Holy Spirit will definitely correct. reprove, convince us but He does it concerning "convicting/convincing " us of righteousness because Jesus is our Advocate...the Righteous One.

The unbeliever He convicts/convinces them that they are guilty of the sin of not believing in Jesus.

It's knowing that we are the righteousness of God in Christ where we stop sinning in what ever form it takes. We start being who we already are in Christ.

Jesus is speaking about the Holy Spirit and He says that He will convict/convince "the world " ( you do know that believers are not OF the world once we come to Christ ) of sin - "because they ( the world ) do not believe in Me." verse 9

Verse 10 Jesus says ..and concerning righteousness because I go to the Father and you ( disciples and now us ) no longer see Me."


Notice the THEY in verse 9 and the YOU in verse 10...and as FreeNChjrist has said....show the New Covenant scriptures about the Holy Spirit convicting believers of sin.

I know this goes against religious upbringing and it has been said so long now that it has become a "sacred cow"...and when we hear something against our "sacred cows"..we want to defend them.....

John 16:8-11 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

 

[Grace777x70]

All scriptures that are talking about "reproving" people in the church are talking to the elders in leadership roles. Example - Titus and Timothy. Never is the word used in context of "men reproving " others as a lay person.

People ( other then leaders in the Body of Christ ) that usually say they are "reproving or rebuking others" are using that out of context and most likely just "reviling people out of malice "...but they like to call it "rebuke" because it sounds so Christian-like. In reality it's just a Pharisee in action!....

Here is another example of the word "reprove/convict/convince" being used in relation to each other...the context is not the Holy Spirit but between people. In this case the word means "show him" ...convince him of his wronging.



Matthew 18:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "If your brother sins, go and show him ( convince/reprove/convict ) his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.

So, the word for convict/convince/reprove/expose has many applications ....we need to listen to the Holy Spirit..as it is His job to "reveal the things of Jesus to us believers "so we need to be open to take the word in context and with the view of other scriptures - looking at them through the lens of the finished work of Christ.

 

[BenFTW]

When God chastens you, what is your natural reaction?

Recently I was thinking of the beauty of the Lord, that of His holiness. Here we are with an innocence lost, but He retains His. How beautiful is God, to not be muddied and be so pure? I think that chastening is some respects ought to be joyous for those who seek after righteousness. How awesome is the Lord to bring about a sanctification process to cleanse you of the dirtiness of sin? I like to see chastening in a positive light.

Consider my parents, I was whipped occasionally with a belt. That may seem harsh but I love my parents dearly. It didn't have a negative affect whatsoever on our relationship and I am a better person for it. I don't see chastening the way others might and I am in a process of learning how the Lord chastens (not in the religious and self righteous way people seem to think He does). I am trying to understand it from a grace perspective, even so from the perspective of who I am in Christ.

So the natural reaction is that God wants better for me and for that I am appreciative. How dark is sin and how desirable it is to be set free. How gracious is God? How wonderful? Such chastisement is a necessity for those that yearn for an innocence that has been lost. Maybe we never had it, but it is something dear. Something precious. That the Lord would sanctify us towards that end is wonderful.

 

[blondieindahouse]

Recently I was thinking of the beauty of the Lord, that of His holiness. Here we are with an innocence lost, but He retains His. How beautiful is God, to not be muddied and be so pure? I think that chastening is some respects ought to be joyous for those who seek after righteousness. How awesome is the Lord to bring about a sanctification process to cleanse you of the dirtiness of sin? I like to see chastening in a positive light.

Consider my parents, I was whipped occasionally with a belt. That may seem harsh but I love my parents dearly. It didn't have a negative affect whatsoever on our relationship and I am a better person for it. I don't see chastening the way others might and I am in a process of learning how the Lord chastens (not in the religious and self righteous way people seem to think He does). I am trying to understand it from a grace perspective, even so from the perspective of who I am in Christ.

So the natural reaction is that God wants better for me and for that I am appreciative. How dark is sin and how desirable it is to be set free. How gracious is God? How wonderful? Such chastisement is a necessity for those that yearn for an innocence that has been lost. Maybe we never had it, but it is something dear. Something precious. That the Lord would sanctify us towards that end is wonderful.

I asked you a simple question and I would appreciate a simple answer.
When God shows you your error in your walk with him what is your natural reaction? How do you respond to your savior . Im looking for your response. In otherwords, do you see your sin as a joyous occasion when God has shown you it is rebellion against him?

 

[BenFTW]

I asked you a simple question and I would appreciate a simple answer.
When God shows you your error in your walk with him what is your natural reaction? How do you respond to your savior . Im looking for your response. In otherwords, do you see your sin as a joyous occasion when God has shown you it is rebellion against him?

He doesn't pin point. He says renew your mind, I've given you the tools to do so. It goes back to identity.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You're emphasizing my point even greater. You're showing it to be an old testament principle of dealing with sin, and not the way it is dealt with in the new covenant (by the blood of Jesus Christ). The similarity is in the continual process of being unclean to clean, where as in Christ you are clean indefinitely because His blood washes over you. His one time sacrifice to take away sin, once and for all.

Hebrews addresses the very concept of what sin confession does, ironically, though it was referencing sacrifices. It says to not make Jesus' blood common like the blood of bulls and goats. Our forgiveness is found in Jesus Christ, not continual sacrifices for the sake of forgiveness because Jesus took care of it at the cross (otherwise He would've had to suffer since the foundation of the world, as scripture states). In the same way sin confession for forgiveness makes Jesus' blood common in likeness to that of the blood of bulls and goats, only able to temporarily deal with sin when in fact Jesus' blood isn't common and has dealt with sin altogether once and for all (not covering, but taking it away).

So you see, that is the similarity of sin confession and sacrifices. Sin confession (for forgiveness) makes Jesus' blood common, it is only good until the next sin. Then you need to clean up again like that of the sacrifices. But no, His blood is not common and it has officially dealt with sin. Not a continual process, but a one time sacrifice for all sin. In the OT fresh sin required fresh blood, in the NT fresh sin is washed in the blood of Jesus Christ by His one time sacrifice. He isn't like the priest of old, He did it once and is our eternal High Priest ever interceding on our behalf (by His one sacrifice).

You missed the point. No confession took place by the people on the day of atonement, which is what Christ's sacrifice represents and what Hebrews 10 is talking about. So peoples' confession of sin had nothing to do with that day. The salvation of the nation was the high priest's responsibility, totally and completely. This is symbolized by no man being allowed in the temple when the high priest was doing his work on that day. All that the people had to do was humble themselves and trust in the completed work.

However, individual confession and sacrifice for sin that individuals did any other day was their work of faith to remain a part of the nation of Israel. Lawbreakers were cut off from the nation without their confession and sacrifice. There was no salvation for them apart from being part of Israel.

And today there is no salvation apart from being a part of the vine. The sacrifice required to remain in it is speaking the truth in love. When we sin, to say we have no sin is a lie, and we are not abiding in the truth (the vine). So this is analogous to Israelites bringing their sin offering to the temple and confessing their sin. To not do so risked being cut off from the nation. Under the new covenant, the practice of not confessing one's sin risks the same thing: being broken off and cast away for not doing the truth.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

He doesn't pin point. He says renew your mind, I've given you the tools to do so. It goes back to identity.

At least one new.modern.hyper grace teacher says that sin is a symptom of a mistaken identity, not rebellion against the living GOD. Obviously, you are a follower of that teaching.

 

[blondieindahouse]

He doesn't pin point. He says renew your mind, I've given you the tools to do so. It goes back to identity.

God doesnt pinpoint sin? I wonder why he is demonstrative in scripture in naming various sins?
Renewing our minds is one thing. I am talking about your reaction to a certain sin you committed and you were chastened?What is your natural reaction?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

He doesn't pin point. He says renew your mind, I've given you the tools to do so. It goes back to identity.

If he doesn't pinpoint, how do you know it's sin?

 

[Euphemia]

You missed the point. No confession took place by the people on the day of atonement, which is what Christ's sacrifice represents and what Hebrews 10 is talking about. So peoples' confession of sin had nothing to do with that day. The salvation of the nation was the high priest's responsibility, totally and completely. This is symbolized by no man being allowed in the temple when the high priest was doing his work on that day. All that the people had to do was humble themselves and trust in the completed work.

However, individual confession and sacrifice for sin that individuals did any other day was their work of faith to remain a part of the nation of Israel. Lawbreakers were cut off from the nation without their confession and sacrifice. There was no salvation for them apart from being part of Israel.

And today there is no salvation apart from being a part of the vine. The sacrifice required to remain in it is speaking the truth in love. When we sin, to say we have no sin is a lie, and we are not abiding in the truth (the vine). So this is analogous to Israelites bringing their sin offering to the temple and confessing their sin. To not do so risked being cut off from the nation. Under the new covenant, the practice of not confessing one's sin risks the same thing: being broken off and cast away for not doing the truth.

We receive salvation through faith by God's free gift of grace. We subsequently REPENT.


.

 

[blondieindahouse]

At least one new.modern.hyper grace teacher says that sin is a symptom of a mistaken identity, not rebellion against the living GOD. Obviously, you are a follower of that teaching.

Its more watered down grace talk. This board is full of extremes.
Well, I know my identity is IN CHRIST . My reaction to the sanctifying process has nothing to do with my identity.