How to Recognize a Mixed-Grace Gospel

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Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#21
It takes time to learn about the Bible.
Amen. There are things I now understand that in the past I did not see at all.

I have to apologize a bit because I am using these debates to also extend my understanding. As a extrovert expressing the points can help make them clearer.

What the hyper-grace group have attempted to do is rebuke, contradict, talk down to me, tell me I am not saved, I am a humanist, a carnal christian, a legalist, a pharisee etc. And what great crime have I commited. Repeated Jesus's words, supported from my life His gospel, spoken of my experiences in church and elsewhere of life etc.

I am not persuaded they have the same spirit as I follow, because the basics that make my heart sing do not echo with them. That leaves me is a difficult dilemma. I am commanded to bring light to the problem and expose that which is kept hidden and explain what the truth is as far as I can before the Lord.

And that is what I am attempting to do in the strength the Lord provides.

Thank you for your words of encouragement. I agree we should always GO TO JESUS, for it is through Him alone and His love and Spirit at work in us, can we walk in righteousness, and fulfill this high calling. Amen
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#23
This is how the grace of Christ has affected me. I had the scripture come up to me where the Pharisees were arguing about whether a man was born blind or not after Jesus healed him. Of course the Pharisees were trying to discredit the message of Jesus. The man said.." All I know is that I was born blind but now I see."

This is what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:

I realize that these beliefs in the grace of God....especially the acceptance grace and the total forgiveness that Jesus bought and paid for with His blood....that these can be offensive to our religious beliefs and what we have been taught in church.

This gospel of the wondrous grace of Christ has had a beautiful affect on me. I am more in love with Jesus and the Father more then ever....in love with studying His word....praying in the spirit constantly with a heart full of joy!

This gospel has given me a compassion for other people and to reach out in love to them. To give more than I ever have with a heart full of love.

To live a holier life in Him...to be a witness of the life and love of our Lord in me.

If these are the horrible fruit of the grace of Christ in me....I want more!.....hyper-grace me more please my Lord and God!



I am living a much fuller life now, more deeply in love with Jesus and the Father then ever, free from the horrible religion of self-effort, having the love of God pour out to me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self=performance based gospel ( which is not the gospel )

I was blind but now I see. I see Jesus and His finished work for me!

It will always be in eternity "Worthy is the Lamb"..it will never be.."Worthy is the Lamb......and me..because I did my part"

It has always been about Jesus and Him alone and it will always remain that for all eternity.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#24
of course.....everyone that doesn't believe what I believe are heretics......typical....it's the nature of the beast....:rolleyes:

Hi grace777x70,

You have just proved my point.. Creflo Dollar is a false teacher.. a heretic!
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#25
Obedience to the faith is simply to believe in Jesus..the Son of God and His finished work for us on the cross and resurrection

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

We become obedient to the faith by believing on Jesus Christ!



It always comes out to Jesus Christ. It starts with Him, continues with Him and ends with Him. It's all about Him. "He breaks the power of cancelled sin He sets the prisoner free... His blood can make the foulest clean His blood availed for me." Got to love those old hymns.:D

 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,982
972
113
44
#26
This is how the grace of Christ has affected me. I had the scripture come up to me where the Pharisees were arguing about whether a man was born blind or not after Jesus healed him. Of course the Pharisees were trying to discredit the message of Jesus. The man said.." All I know is that I was born blind but now I see."

This is what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:

I realize that these beliefs in the grace of God....especially the acceptance grace and the total forgiveness that Jesus bought and paid for with His blood....that these can be offensive to our religious beliefs and what we have been taught in church.

This gospel of the wondrous grace of Christ has had a beautiful affect on me. I am more in love with Jesus and the Father more then ever....in love with studying His word....praying in the spirit constantly with a heart full of joy!

This gospel has given me a compassion for other people and to reach out in love to them. To give more than I ever have with a heart full of love.

To live a holier life in Him...to be a witness of the life and love of our Lord in me.

If these are the horrible fruit of the grace of Christ in me....I want more!.....hyper-grace me more please my Lord and God!



I am living a much fuller life now, more deeply in love with Jesus and the Father then ever, free from the horrible religion of self-effort, having the love of God pour out to me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self=performance based gospel ( which is not the gospel )

I was blind but now I see. I see Jesus and His finished work for me!

It will always be in eternity "Worthy is the Lamb"..it will never be.."Worthy is the Lamb......and me..because I did my part"

It has always been about Jesus and Him alone and it will always remain that for all eternity.
Well what you are saying here is what may of the people you're arguing with are saying too, just the way you say it sometimes can be misleading and honestly I don't agree with the way you argue it either because I think it tends to give the unbeliever a false impression and a false hope. It did me for years.

I agree with what you are saying here and with what you say about "salvation". Salvation/regeneration/being born again does come from believing and absolutely cannot be bought with "works" or anything we do. We agree 100% right there, no disagreement at all. I also agree that we don't do works "to keep it" either, but the works WILL come if you've been TRULY saved. They will be EVIDENCE of that salvation, and be done out of LOVE and GRATITUDE for the God that has just filled and revealed Himself to you. Do you honestly think something like this can happen without causing a change in you? You say here "I am living a much fuller life now", "having the love of God pour out to me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self=performance based gospel". So you are saying that after you understood the truth and were saved you changed? Is that not the "works" you seem to war so hard against?

I also want to add quickly that I also agree that you don't "work" to KEEP salvation, that's not whats being said, another misconception I see rarely addressed. It honestly seem contradictory to your message honestly, and is exactly what I understand many of the people you argue with to be saying as well.

I honestly see that you deeply misunderstand their points and many times they misunderstand yours as well, but sometimes the way you word and present your side I too would disagree with especially for they "believer" who thinks they are a believer but really doesn't KNOW Jesus at all. I know this because I was one of them for years. I honestly think these things can be made more clear because the way you present it to me at times says, "Oh you just believe and then are free to just do ANYTHING you want guilt free forever", and never talk about the fundamental and drastic change that happens in ones life when we ware regenerated and born again. If you think you are saved and can still be the "old man", then I would have to say "you're wrong", which I am not even saying that you won't war with the "old man" and maybe even every day, but it will be a war. This is not what I think you mean to be honest, and it's definitely not what you say in this comment, but your words can be taken that way at times. I think that sometimes it is better to just write out exactly what you mean and let Him guide you than cutting and pasting someone else's arguments, because they may not even be saying exactly what you mean anyway.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#27
This is what I believe about the difference between the 2 kinds of good works....

Romans 10:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own ( by their own good works ), they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. ( He has good works for us to do..but they originate from Him and flow out of our inner man to others )

Blue is my italics

There is a massive difference between the two "good works" in God's eyes...to men they look the same...

The ridiculous idea that one can do whatever they want after coming to Christ is another myth...and I paste from someone that "spells" it out in a teaching format.....people if interested can read it for themselves.....:)

Ladylynn talks about the need for teaching in areas in which longer posts are needed to clarify things..for more info see post #15

It takes time to learn about the Bible. We can't grasp all of a truth unless we meditate on it and compare Scripture with Scripture. A quick post on CC is not going to do it. Neither will an argument with dueling Bible verses.





Well what you are saying here is what may of the people you're arguing with are saying too, just the way you say it sometimes can be misleading and honestly I don't agree with the way you argue it either because I think it tends to give the unbeliever a false impression and a false hope. It did me for years.

I agree with what you are saying here and with what you say about "salvation". Salvation/regeneration/being born again does come from believing and absolutely cannot be bought with "works" or anything we do. We agree 100% right there, no disagreement at all. I also agree that we don't do works "to keep it" either, but the works WILL come if you've been TRULY saved. They will be EVIDENCE of that salvation, and be done out of LOVE and GRATITUDE for the God that has just filled and revealed Himself to you. Do you honestly think something like this can happen without causing a change in you? You say here "I am living a much fuller life now", "having the love of God pour out to me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self=performance based gospel". So you are saying that after you understood the truth and were saved you changed? Is that not the "works" you seem to war so hard against?

I also want to add quickly that I also agree that you don't "work" to KEEP salvation, that's not whats being said, another misconception I see rarely addressed. It honestly seem contradictory to your message honestly, and is exactly what I understand many of the people you argue with to be saying as well.

I honestly see that you deeply misunderstand their points and many times they misunderstand yours as well, but sometimes the way you word and present your side I too would disagree with especially for they "believer" who thinks they are a believer but really doesn't KNOW Jesus at all. I know this because I was one of them for years. I honestly think these things can be made more clear because the way you present it to me at times says, "Oh you just believe and then are free to just do ANYTHING you want guilt free forever", and never talk about the fundamental and drastic change that happens in ones life when we ware regenerated and born again. If you think you are saved and can still be the "old man", then I would have to say "you're wrong", which I am not even saying that you won't war with the "old man" and maybe even every day, but it will be a war. This is not what I think you mean to be honest, and it's definitely not what you say in this comment, but your words can be taken that way at times. I think that sometimes it is better to just write out exactly what you mean and let Him guide you than cutting and pasting someone else's arguments, because they may not even be saying exactly what you mean anyway.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#28
As far as license to sin goes...and living how you want..this article spells it out beautifully.....:)


Grace-preachers attract sinners and that is a good thing. If you are a sinner – you have come to the right place! Sinners are welcome in the House of Grace. I wish our churches were magnets for sinners for that would be a sure sign we were preaching the true gospel of grace.
If this scandalizes you then you may want to avert your eyes from the One called the Friend of Sinners. Jesus didn’t wait for sinners to come to Him; He literally went into their homes and got Himself invited to their parties. That’s because grace is for sinners. It is not for those who think they are basically good and decent people. As Jesus said, “I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners” (Mt 9:13).

So I suppose I should be thrilled that I get a lot of correspondence from sinners – and I am. What is less thrilling is the correspondence I get from saints who think they are sinners and who want me to validate their choice to act like sinners.

Why do saints act like sinners?

Some may do it out of ignorance (“I am holy? I didn’t know!”) or out of a fatal belief that they can live by law and call it grace (“I’m just trying to live by the red letters of Jesus”). But a saint who acts like a sinner is a hypocrite – they are acting like someone they are not.

In a recent post I dealt with five questions I typically hear from hot-blooded young men. But today I want to answer the biggest question of all…

Is grace a license to sin?

No. It is true that grace brings freedom and that includes the freedom to make poor choices, but if you use your freedom to enslave yourself to sin, then you have missed the point of grace:

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. (Gal 5:1)

The purpose of grace is to liberate the prisoner and give life to the dead. Grace is also good news for the poor (Lk 4:18-19). So if you use grace to enslave or impoverish yourself by making dumb decisions and indulging the flesh, then you are setting aside grace. You are not using it for its intended purpose. Grace liberates, but if you use your freedom to discard your freedom, then what was the point? You are no better off than when you started.

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound. (Rom 5:20)

Don’t ever fall for the lie that says “I can go on sinning so that grace may abound.” True, your sinning won’t affect God’s love for you, but it will surely affect you. It will enslave you and ultimately kill you. This is not God’s will for your life.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. (Rom 6:1)

Grace is no more a license to sin than electricity is a license to electrocute yourself. True, you can use electricity to electrocute yourself but God forbid that you would! That’s not what it’s for. God created electricity so you could enjoy light and warmth and ESPN’s SportsCenter. Grace, like electricity is meant to bring life not death and there is no life in sin.

We need to see sin for what it really is. It is not some benign activity like making coffee or hitting free-throws down the stretch. As God warned Cain, Sin is a crouching beast that desires to master you. Running after Sin is about as smart as poking a pit-bull with a stick.

They may take our lives, but they’ll never take our freedom!

The apostle of grace wrote much about how sin enslaves and he wasn’t just talking about sinners: “You are slaves to the one whom you obey” (Rom 6:16). Now please understand I am drawing a big fat line between a saint who occasionally sins and a saint who runs after sin.

There is a big difference. The former finds himself doing what he doesn’t want to do; the latter is doing exactly what he wants to do. If you are troubled when you sin, relax – your discomfort is actually a sign of the new nature and new desires within you. Your heart is to please the Lord. But if you are untroubled when you sin – perhaps because you think grace is a license to sin – then wake up and smell the coffee. Something is very wrong.

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age. (Tit 2:11-12)

I am aware that some use this scripture to promote behavior modification thus condemning those who are struggling to overcome sin. (If you are trying to overcome sin, check out the excellent links at the end of this post.) The point I want to make here is this: The grace of God that brings salvation teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness. So any grace that isn’t teaching you to say “No” is counterfeit grace. Is grace a license to sin? Only if it is fake grace.

So why do I still sin?

I suspect there are two reasons. Either you don’t know who you really are and you are still running on the operating system you had when you followed the way of the world. Or you are an unbeliever. The grace that teaches us to say no only comes through faith. If you don’t believe you can say no then, guess what, you won’t. This is why it is imperative to declare what the Bible says is true about you.

If you are a Christian you are a new creation. The new has come and the old has gone. When you came to Christ you did not sign up for a program of life-long reform and self-improvement. That way lies disaster and disappointment. Christ is your life. Learn to allow Him to express His flawless, sinless life through your earthen vessel.

When you get up in the morning, look at yourself in the mirror and declare “I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. I am His dearly loved child.” When you’re about to click on a link that you should not click or when reaching for some substance that is killing you, say it again: “I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. I am His dearly loved child.” This is not the power of positive thinking. This is a frail human being tapping into the inexhaustible riches of His transforming grace through faith.

Have faith in God – His grace is powerful! It is the only thing on this earth that can give us freedom from sin and sinning. Live under the fountain of His grace and sin shall not be your master (Rom 6:14).
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#30
The other aspect to the true gospel of the grace of Christ is that it is scandalous to many people...well not for the sinners that need it..they love the "good news" of Jesus and His finished work for them....

If we preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and nobody says.."What?..are you saying we can just go and sin and do what we want?"..if nobody says that...you have not preached the gospel of the grace of Christ like Paul did. He got this accusation all the time with people that have a legalistic mindset .....it's the nature of the beast...:)


 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#31
Well what you are saying here is what may of the people you're arguing with are saying too, just the way you say it sometimes can be misleading and honestly I don't agree with the way you argue it either because I think it tends to give the unbeliever a false impression and a false hope. It did me for years.

I agree with what you are saying here and with what you say about "salvation". Salvation/regeneration/being born again does come from believing and absolutely cannot be bought with "works" or anything we do. We agree 100% right there, no disagreement at all. I also agree that we don't do works "to keep it" either, but the works WILL come if you've been TRULY saved. They will be EVIDENCE of that salvation, and be done out of LOVE and GRATITUDE for the God that has just filled and revealed Himself to you. Do you honestly think something like this can happen without causing a change in you? You say here "I am living a much fuller life now", "having the love of God pour out to me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self=performance based gospel". So you are saying that after you understood the truth and were saved you changed? Is that not the "works" you seem to war so hard against?

I also want to add quickly that I also agree that you don't "work" to KEEP salvation, that's not whats being said, another misconception I see rarely addressed. It honestly seem contradictory to your message honestly, and is exactly what I understand many of the people you argue with to be saying as well.

I honestly see that you deeply misunderstand their points and many times they misunderstand yours as well, but sometimes the way you word and present your side I too would disagree with especially for they "believer" who thinks they are a believer but really doesn't KNOW Jesus at all. I know this because I was one of them for years. I honestly think these things can be made more clear because the way you present it to me at times says, "Oh you just believe and then are free to just do ANYTHING you want guilt free forever", and never talk about the fundamental and drastic change that happens in ones life when we ware regenerated and born again. If you think you are saved and can still be the "old man", then I would have to say "you're wrong", which I am not even saying that you won't war with the "old man" and maybe even every day, but it will be a war. This is not what I think you mean to be honest, and it's definitely not what you say in this comment, but your words can be taken that way at times. I think that sometimes it is better to just write out exactly what you mean and let Him guide you than cutting and pasting someone else's arguments, because they may not even be saying exactly what you mean anyway.
There is not one verse in the bible that says the believer WILL do good works. We were created(new creation in Christ) for good works that we SHOULD do them.

Doing good works is in the subjunctive mood......maybe we will, maybe we won't. Why?

Because we have the opportunity and privilege to use our own personal volition to Glorify God in time. He doesn't force us.

He gets His glory for saving us whether we are positive or negative to His plan. But we have the privilege to glorify Him through our own positive volition after he saves us.

King James Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#32
Mixed grace as some are calling it is just a new label on the old social gospel of decades ago.

Hyper grace seems to be a term that is subject to open interpretation.

I think I will stay with Gods grace and leave it at that. If God is in it and He is then I'm not going to change it because God does not change.

No man can will himself to be a Christian. Conversion is solely by the power and will of Almighty God.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Apparently John was unaware of the work requirement relative to salvation.

Crefflo Dollar is in the ministry to get himself a new jet, bigger homes and more luxury cars.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#33
As far as license to sin goes...and living how you want..this article spells it out beautifully.....:)


Grace-preachers attract sinners and that is a good thing. If you are a sinner – you have come to the right place! Sinners are welcome in the House of Grace. I wish our churches were magnets for sinners for that would be a sure sign we were preaching the true gospel of grace.
If this scandalizes you then you may want to avert your eyes from the One called the Friend of Sinners. Jesus didn’t wait for sinners to come to Him; He literally went into their homes and got Himself invited to their parties. That’s because grace is for sinners. It is not for those who think they are basically good and decent people. As Jesus said, “I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners” (Mt 9:13).

So I suppose I should be thrilled that I get a lot of correspondence from sinners – and I am. What is less thrilling is the correspondence I get from saints who think they are sinners and who want me to validate their choice to act like sinners.

Why do saints act like sinners?

Some may do it out of ignorance (“I am holy? I didn’t know!”) or out of a fatal belief that they can live by law and call it grace (“I’m just trying to live by the red letters of Jesus”). But a saint who acts like a sinner is a hypocrite – they are acting like someone they are not.

In a recent post I dealt with five questions I typically hear from hot-blooded young men. But today I want to answer the biggest question of all…

Is grace a license to sin?

No. It is true that grace brings freedom and that includes the freedom to make poor choices, but if you use your freedom to enslave yourself to sin, then you have missed the point of grace:

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. (Gal 5:1)

The purpose of grace is to liberate the prisoner and give life to the dead. Grace is also good news for the poor (Lk 4:18-19). So if you use grace to enslave or impoverish yourself by making dumb decisions and indulging the flesh, then you are setting aside grace. You are not using it for its intended purpose. Grace liberates, but if you use your freedom to discard your freedom, then what was the point? You are no better off than when you started.

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound. (Rom 5:20)

Don’t ever fall for the lie that says “I can go on sinning so that grace may abound.” True, your sinning won’t affect God’s love for you, but it will surely affect you. It will enslave you and ultimately kill you. This is not God’s will for your life.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. (Rom 6:1)

Grace is no more a license to sin than electricity is a license to electrocute yourself. True, you can use electricity to electrocute yourself but God forbid that you would! That’s not what it’s for. God created electricity so you could enjoy light and warmth and ESPN’s SportsCenter. Grace, like electricity is meant to bring life not death and there is no life in sin.

We need to see sin for what it really is. It is not some benign activity like making coffee or hitting free-throws down the stretch. As God warned Cain, Sin is a crouching beast that desires to master you. Running after Sin is about as smart as poking a pit-bull with a stick.

They may take our lives, but they’ll never take our freedom!

The apostle of grace wrote much about how sin enslaves and he wasn’t just talking about sinners: “You are slaves to the one whom you obey” (Rom 6:16). Now please understand I am drawing a big fat line between a saint who occasionally sins and a saint who runs after sin.

There is a big difference. The former finds himself doing what he doesn’t want to do; the latter is doing exactly what he wants to do. If you are troubled when you sin, relax – your discomfort is actually a sign of the new nature and new desires within you. Your heart is to please the Lord. But if you are untroubled when you sin – perhaps because you think grace is a license to sin – then wake up and smell the coffee. Something is very wrong.

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age. (Tit 2:11-12)

I am aware that some use this scripture to promote behavior modification thus condemning those who are struggling to overcome sin. (If you are trying to overcome sin, check out the excellent links at the end of this post.) The point I want to make here is this: The grace of God that brings salvation teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness. So any grace that isn’t teaching you to say “No” is counterfeit grace. Is grace a license to sin? Only if it is fake grace.

So why do I still sin?

I suspect there are two reasons. Either you don’t know who you really are and you are still running on the operating system you had when you followed the way of the world. Or you are an unbeliever. The grace that teaches us to say no only comes through faith. If you don’t believe you can say no then, guess what, you won’t. This is why it is imperative to declare what the Bible says is true about you.

If you are a Christian you are a new creation. The new has come and the old has gone. When you came to Christ you did not sign up for a program of life-long reform and self-improvement. That way lies disaster and disappointment. Christ is your life. Learn to allow Him to express His flawless, sinless life through your earthen vessel.

When you get up in the morning, look at yourself in the mirror and declare “I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. I am His dearly loved child.” When you’re about to click on a link that you should not click or when reaching for some substance that is killing you, say it again: “I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. I am His dearly loved child.” This is not the power of positive thinking. This is a frail human being tapping into the inexhaustible riches of His transforming grace through faith.

Have faith in God – His grace is powerful! It is the only thing on this earth that can give us freedom from sin and sinning. Live under the fountain of His grace and sin shall not be your master (Rom 6:14).


How can anyone read that and not say AMEN!!! :confused:
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#34
And a little humor for some fun.....just in case people go "hog" wild!



 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#35
And a little humor for some fun.....just in case people go "hog" wild!



The smoke screen works really well Grace777. the majority of Christian live a life of cleaning up the flesh and quitting sin.

How many believers do you know that say," whoooo hooooo, I can sin all I want now"

The harsh reality is that the majority of believers today think that they are at the banquet table and in reality they are in the slop.

It is religion that is the major problem, not sinning.

Religion has the grace believer so focused on defending "a license to sin" or " hyper grace" that they antagonize His grace and message........just what they want.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#36
Let me put grace7x77 gospel emotional approach

Create condemnation so people doubt Jesus knew what he was saying. It was said just to make people into failures.

Supply the cross as the forgiveness answer, but legalism or a sense of failure as evil. So the law or righteousness are why the world is in sin, and not a benchmark to show the level of failure that we are born into.

This gospel is only being preached on the basis of appeasement, or easy believism.
if you said something understandable we might begin to understand where you are coming from. The above is nonsense
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#37
Yes..it is definitely a smoke screen from the religious mindset...and it is understandable because grace offends the natural mind trying to " do things in the flesh "

I have met none that say "Whooo hooo, I can sin all I want now "

The true gospel of the grace of Christ makes one fall on their knees in front of their Lord and Father who sent Jesus to us and say " Thank you!....we love You!..we trust You with our lives...we are one with You....we believe in Your great love for us....and we believe in what Your Son has done for us. The Mighty One has done great things for us and holy is His name!...He is mighty to save! "

The smoke screen works really well Grace777. the majority of Christian live a life of cleaning up the flesh and quitting sin.

How many believers do you know that say," whoooo hooooo, I can sin all I want now"

The harsh reality is that the majority of believers today think that they are at the banquet table and in reality they are in the slop.

It is religion that is the major problem, not sinning.

Religion has the grace believer so focused on defending "a license to sin" or " hyper grace" that they antagonize His grace and message........just what they want.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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#38
There is not one verse in the bible that says the believer WILL do good works. We were created(new creation in Christ) for good works that we SHOULD do them.

Doing good works is in the subjunctive mood......maybe we will, maybe we won't. Why?

Because we have the opportunity and privilege to use our own personal volition to Glorify God in time. He doesn't force us.

He gets His glory for saving us whether we are positive or negative to His plan. But we have the privilege to glorify Him through our own positive volition after he saves us.

King James Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Well all I can go by is my own personal experience and what the Spirit now in me allows me to see. If you are sitting here telling me that someone can feel the love and grace given to us by God through the indwelling of His Holy Spirit that heals us and makes us "NEW" while simultaneously confirming that God is real and Jesus is His son sent to take the righteous punishment for our sins that we rightly deserve thereby reconciling us to Him, and walk away from that and live the same way guilt free, then I am going to have to STRONGLY disagree with you.

So your argument is we "should" do them but don't "have to? Have you met a true Christian yet that has felt the regenerative power of God and now KNOWS He is real and what He did for us and just decides "Oh, that was nice, but I think I'll keep on living exactly how I want to in sin, why not I'm good?", because I haven't and honestly I would seriously look at that as an indicator of a false conversion. If you think repeating certain words after a pastor is the "password" for salvation and you just get to decide when you're saved then I say that's not true. I say that having said those words without even truly knowing what they meant, being declared "saved", and told I was good to go. Well I wasn't saved at that point and honestly I almost died that way. I would have been all "Lord, Lord", and heard "depart from me", and praise His name I survived that motorcycle accident, losing the use of my right (and dominate) arm and was crushed. I was crushed to the point that my pride died and lead me to Him in truth this time. I'm sorry, but our Lord is more powerful than us being able to be filled by Him and stay the same. I honestly don't feel that's possible, and again I understand He works in each of us different, and we each grow at different rates, but statements like
"Because we have the opportunity and privilege to use our own personal volition to Glorify God in time. He doesn't force us", are so far off my point I almost don't get it. I'm not saying He "forces us" to do anything, I'm saying when we are confronted with His TRUTH and He makes us ALL NEW that it's not possible for us to ignore and not react to in THANKS and total GRATITUDE not fear.

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Rom 6:4
Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

Ephesians 4:22-24
that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in
the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

I mean I didn't just make up my view and come here to try to push it on others, I am just sharing my testimony of what He DID DO IN MY LIFE, and that I have seen and heard about in others lives and words and honestly the Spirit leads us to truth and this is truth as He's shown me. Are you honestly going to argue with me that one can be saved and never change at all? If so what a weak gospel and why would anyone need it? I didn't need God's power of salvation to stay the same, and sure I can agree it can take time. I'm not arguing we become perfect or sinless, or that we won't battle with the "old man", but I am absolutely arguing that we WILL be changed. I don't understand you beef with my point unless you're saying we can be born again and stay the exact same, I do not agree with that at all.


 
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phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
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#39
of course.....everyone that doesn't believe what I believe are heretics......typical....it's the nature of the beast....:rolleyes:

Hi grace777x70,

If you believe the theology of creflo dolar then yes you follow a false gospel (whether you realise it or not). It nothing to do with 'I'. It's everything do to with the bible says. I'll give you an example which I think you may have missed while giving creflo as an example. You do not have to go far into his video (the one you suplied to back your claims) to hear creflo dollar claim that his teaching on the 'obedience of faith' was new, he has never heard it before and it was going to suprise everyone!!

Now, a mature christian would realise staright away there is something wrong with creflo's claim? All of a sudden after 2000 years creflo has now found the meaning? all this says to the concerned christian is that he is full of his own self granduer.

It would be good if you could give your own explanation to the scriptures I asked about, rather than giving out links or copied from other websites. Creflo Dollar certainly never answered the question.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#40
Well..Creflo said a few years ago that the Lord showed him the true gospel of grace...and has been teaching grace since then.. It takes a humble person to admit he was wrong about some things he was teaching. He came out in front of his congregation and spoke about this revelation of the gospel of grace. ...which is why he said it was new to him..ie..obedience of faith".....and he did answer it....

I have no interest in debating Creflo and what his beliefs are..that's between you and God and Creflo.

I did answer the "obedience to the faith"...it's on this thread....post #16.....:)


Hi grace777x70,

If you believe the theology of creflo dolar then yes you follow a false gospel (whether you realise it or not). It nothing to do with 'I'. It's everything do to with the bible says. I'll give you an example which I think you may have missed while giving creflo as an example. You do not have to go far into his video (the one you suplied to back your claims) to hear creflo dollar claim that his teaching on the 'obedience of faith' was new, he has never heard it before and it was going to suprise everyone!!

Now, a mature christian would realise staright away there is something wrong with creflo's claim? All of a sudden after 2000 years creflo has now found the meaning? all this says to the concerned christian is that he is full of his own self granduer.

It would be good if you could give your own explanation to the scriptures I asked about, rather than giving out links or copied from other websites. Creflo Dollar certainly never answered the question.
 
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