SIN

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Sep 4, 2012
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#61
Jan 7, 2015
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#62
In this day and age I have seen more hyper grace persons speak out against the law of God rather than to speak out against sinful behavior.

By the law, written by the finger of God, came the knowledge of sin. But their remedy, in order to make themselves feel better about sin, is to do away with the law and commandments completely. No law, no sin seems to be their mindset. But sin was in the world even before the law, and those who sin without the law shall still be judged by the words of God.


All judgment has been given unto the Son, and so will they try to do away with the Word of Truth which exposes their sins as well? Seems some have already cast the truth to the ground, and have trampled it underfoot.

John 15:22
If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#63
Without faith a person is lost. There is no salvation apart from faith.
My bible says it's by grace. Where do you find faith? How does one obtain faith? What happens when one doubts?

Lu 17:5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#64
And that would be another myth about the gospel of the grace of Christ....this article addresses that..

Does the Hyper-Grace Gospel Promote Lawlessness?

Yet another article has come out in Charisma News maligning the hyper-grace gospel and those of us who preach it. In it, Daniel Norris worries that preaching grace without the law leads to the sort of lawlessness that Jesus said “would abound in the last days” (Matt. 24:12). The implication is that those of us who preach this message are causing the love of many to grow cold.

As others have claimed, our heretical teachings may be responsible for a last day’s apostasy sends millions to hell.
The punchline of this latest article is that we would delight in the old covenant law, as David did, and so right the “tilting ship” of unbalanced grace.

Since I am one of those who preaches the “toxic theology” of hyper-grace, and since I have long argued that the law has no relevance for the believer, permit me to respond to the accusations made in the article, which I summarize in eight points:

1. Preaching grace without law is unbalanced. Remember John 3:16!

John 3:16 is arguably the greatest sentence ever uttered and it ends like this: “…whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” Notice the period at the end of that verse. It is the greatest period in the history of periods. That period tells us there are no price-tags attached to the grace of God.

The abundant and blessed life that Christ offers you has already been given and paid for at the cross. You can’t earn it, work for it, or reimburse him for it. All you can do is receive it by faith.
What does this have to do with law? Absolutely nothing.

The word law is mentioned nowhere in this verse or chapter. If Jesus did not see fit to balance God’s grace with law, neither should we.

For thise that are actually interested in what is really being said..you can click on the link below and feed yourselves..ask yourself these questions? Does this truth make Jesus bigger? Does this truth make me fall deeper in love with the One who gave me freely His grace?.....only you can answer that for yourself....God bless you!

Does the Hyper-Grace Gospel Promote Lawlessness? A Response to Daniel Norris – Escape to Reality
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#65
In this day and age I have seen more hyper grace persons speak out against the law of God rather than to speak out against sinful behavior.

By the law, written by the finger of God, came the knowledge of sin. But their remedy, in order to make themselves feel better about sin, is to do away with the law and commandments completely. No law, no sin seems to be their mindset. But sin was in the world even before the law, and those who sin without the law shall still be judged by the words of God.


All judgment has been given unto the Son, and so will they try to do away with the Word of Truth which exposes their sins as well? Seems some have already cast the truth to the ground, and have trampled it underfoot.

John 15:22

If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.
On the contrary, it is those who understand grace who uphold the Law, ALL of it.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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#66
Hi Wattie,

I don't think you understand what I mean or others mean By Christ being Lord over all our lives.. It does not mean what you have wrongly suggested... sanctification is progressive.. would you not agree.

Hyper grace wrongly emphazises one aspect of the Christian life and scripture teaching to the detriment of the teachings. I am not saying that everything that hyper grace teaches is wrong yet it is mixed with serious error. It is this error mixed with truth that makes it very dangerous. I would not go as far as to say it is antinomian but it certainly (then they would be heretics) but it certainly and dangerously dances around the edge of the antinomian campfire.

Hyper grace does get one thing right, once you are saved..you are saved for eternity..your sins are forgiven..and yet if you are honest with yourself and not deceiving yourself..you will know that you still sin. you will still tell lies, you will still get angry with people, you wil still lust with the eye and the list goes on and on and on and on and on (even if only for a split sec). Hyper grace would have you believe that theres no need to confess..its all forgiven already.... it is here where they dance dangerously around the antinomian camp fire.


What do you mean wattie..by the Holy Spirit dwelling in the person '''''continues to believes in that person''' Is that even biblical? I think not! The Holy Spirit helps you to keep ''''believing in Jesus'''', not you, your not God!! the Holy Spirit guides you into Holiness and Truth ...oh by the way what is that truth residing in you?
Yah I constructed that continues to believe in the person awkwardly :)

What I meant is the saved, sealed spirit in someone.. that the Holy Spirit has indwelled.. does not sin. Kept by His power.

The flesh can still sin.. but the spirit does not.

So the Holy Spirit IN A SENSE.. 'continues to believe' in us... even tho that sounds awkward. :)

This is where verses about continual believing for eternal life coming in. Eg.. 'believeth' in the KJV.. is actually 'believing' 'or continuing to believe'
 
Dec 5, 2015
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#68
We don't give in to guilt. That is what the devil inspires in us. The Holy Spirit inspires godly sorrow which leads to repentance.

If a person doesn't feel guilt when he has done wrong, I think it's fair to say that he has a seared conscience.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,236
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#69
I think there is a bit of mix up that happens when a way of serving God is confused with how that person gets converted.

So, someone MAY look at the Old Testament and say that the offering of sacrifices, tithing, levitical laws etc.. etc.. were actually the way the person got converted, or were dependent on them keeping their converted state.

If they do this.. then they would probably look at the New Testament and see things such as tithing for a church, sharing your faith, loving your fellow church members, loving your spouse etc.. as also part of conversion or dependent on them keeping secure.

What clears the confusion is by seeing eternal salvation as an independent act, seperate from the teaching someone receives or their continual behaviour in following Jesus.

Salvation becomes the same.. OT and NT.

David believed in a Redeemer.. Job also.. and there are numerous other references in the OT to a Saviour redeeming people from their sin.

And of course the Redeemer is all thru the NT.

There are some who say no one was eternally saved until the New Covenant. That is a very, very big stretch. This completely denies the Son in His pre-incarnate state working as the God of Israel, and before. He is now and has always been the Redeemer.

Another big part of this.. is what people understand about the Family of God.

I believe this has been added to since Adam - of those who believe in Jesus. It didn't begin at Pentecost.

Jesus' churches also didn't begin at Pentecost!

Matthew 18 refers to the church Jesus has with His disciples. They had the great commission and commandment, Jesus was their Head, they had the Lord's Supper.. they met together regularly etc..

This is the first New Testament, christian assembly! BEFORE pentecost!

Pentecost is when Jesus had sent the Holy Spirit as the Comforter and administrator to His churches. Jesus had ascended to heaven.. and then came with the Holy Spirit as the one triune God.

The church at Jerusalem.. was empowered.. but it wasn't the first instance of the Holy Spirit saving anyone. In fact.. in Acts this occasion is of already saved believers being empowered.
 
Jun 23, 2015
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#70
The MOMENT any man believes, CHRIST saves them. Acts 16:31 and the aorist tense of believe proves this. If the next moment the believer picks up the bottle and stays on the bottle.............he is saved, because salvation is dependent on GRACE, not faith. Faith was a moment in time, grace is eternal.
We have to walk in faith. We have faith in grace given.

2 Corinthians 5:7
For we live by faith, not by sight.

It took Noah a hundred twenty years worth of faith moments:p

The Faith of Abel, Enoch, Noah
Hebrews 11…5By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God. 6And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. 7By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#71
We don't give in to guilt. That is what the devil inspires in us. The Holy Spirit inspires godly sorrow which leads to repentance.
People are so inclined to trip over words. Guilt simply means a sense of having done wrong, not some cloud of condemnation hanging over someone's head.
 
May 22, 2014
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#72
Leviticus 5:17
“If anyone sins and does what is forbidden in any of the Lord’s commands, even though they do not know it, they are guilty and will be held responsible.
 
Dec 5, 2015
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#73
Leviticus 5:17
“If anyone sins and does what is forbidden in any of the Lord’s commands, even though they do not know it, they are guilty and will be held responsible.
For those who are saved, our sins are imputed to Jesus Christ. He bore the guilt already. We will experience remorse, but not guilt. Guilt comes from the devil.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#74
For those who are saved, our sins are imputed to Jesus Christ. He bore the guilt already. We will experience remorse, but not guilt. Guilt comes from the devil.

remorse
rɪˈmɔːs/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]


 
Dec 5, 2015
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#75
Dictionaries don't actually encompass the godly sorrow that a believer experiences when he commits a sin. Guilt is not part of the equation.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#76
Words have mening or else we could not communicate :)
 
Dec 5, 2015
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#77
Words have mening or else we could not communicate :)
The best communication comes when all are well-versed in the scriptures and not in what an ever-changing dictionary has to say.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#78
The best communication comes when all are well-versed in the scriptures and not in what an ever-changing dictionary has to say.

I think we all know that remorse has had the same meaning for a very very very long time.
 
Dec 5, 2015
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#79
I think we all know that remorse has had the same meaning for a very very very long time.
The kind of remorse that gets God's attention is what He calls "godly sorrow", which leads to true repentance and a restored and right relationship with Him.


.
 
S

skylove7

Guest
#80
That's good. A self righteous person will need to be humbled by the law to see their sin and need of Christ...but a crushed hurting person has had their fill of the law and needs the sweet Gospel and to be directed to Jesus.. That's the balance I see.
Right on!
And also we all must understand...
In life you can spill all your flaws to self righteous people...thinking they will appreciate that
But in truth
The vain take your confessions to build their ladder of performance....that may fool man....but nothing ever fools God