How to Recognize a Mixed-Grace Gospel

[Grace777x70]

This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"

We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....however there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.

God sets apart ( sanctifies )our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. ( this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )

Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..= done deal

Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive )



Sanctification to our "religious minds" could mean a lot of different things to different people as it depends on the religious beliefs formulated from our backgrounds....not doing the "biggie sins"...can be things like..no smoking..no drinking..no going to church..no reading your bible every day..no praying for an hour each day.....no going to a movie...reading a newspaper...no being a servant of God...the religious mindset says - no doing "what I don't do.."..

 

[Grace777x70]

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is already in us in our inner man in Christ...because of what he did for us....the new man of the heart.. There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and the "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior....as we walk in this earth.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

 

[FreeNChrist]

Look at the following list

• grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
• lack of remorse or guilt
• failure to accept responsibility for own actions
• many short-term marital relationships
• shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
• callousness and lack of empathy
• poor behavioral controls
• sexual promiscuity
• pathological lying
• cunning and manipulativeness

Imagine you gave a person like this the gospel and they could preach it.
In all my tests on personality traits I would fall into the catagory of being a victim of such people like this, because I too easily take them at face value.

Now some of these people have converted, and walk in the faith while others have serious trouble staying on the straight and narrow.

When anyone changes their story, or things do not add up, or they seem to show no empathy, it is often time to close down. If someone has a cold heart, you cannot bring it into life, you are merely a person in the way of their grand goal or mission, you are nothing but an obstacle.

So be wise as serpents but as innocent as doves as there are many in sheeps clothing who have a heart of a wolf, to devour you and leave you for dead.

Some of "these" people?? Dude, you just described yourself. You are one of "these" people. We all are.

 

[PeterJens]

So are you perfect? If not by your own admission you have failed.

Dear reader please note EG reply. It is not walking in righteousness, or even walking in perfection, it is am I perfect.

I will never be perfect until I am transformed into Jesus's likeness, at the last day. But I can and do walk in righteousness.
Every christian is able to walk in righteousness, else why are we saved.

The apostles called the believers pure and holy, walking in grace and righteousness.
If people sinned they repented, confessed and walked on.

This demonstrates EG does not believe anyone can walk as Jesus intended through the cross, it was all a waste of time.

We are sinners saved by grace. Our righteousness is the power of God at work in us. If I have not been changed, if Gods work has failed, then why am I witnessing. If there was nothing of value but a mild hope, no change of behaviour or heart, why be a christian at all. Do you see the emptiness of this approach and position?

It is a denial of the letters Paul wrote. We are christs body on earth, real righteous behaviour is possible, or else you are lost. All EG is stating is that for him it is impossible. My answer is fine, I cannot testify to anyone elses walk but my own.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

We do not sanctify our self God sanctifies us, We just learn to trust him.

God said to rest from our work. why do you want to start over again and work.

Your chart is flawed in a few areas.

Justification is saved or perfected forever. that part never changes. God said by one sacrifice ha has perfect forever. That means forever..

Sanctification has two parts. Positional sanctification (which is the same as being perfected in Christ) vs conditional sanctification (which is our moment by moment state of mind in Christ)..

Glorification is the time when our positional sanctification matches completely with our conditional sanctification.

It is called the means of Growth,

It is based on justification (if we do noot have security in Christ, our conditional sanctification will never grow. it will be stagnant, because we are trusting in self not God) and relys on the hope of glorification.

Sanctification is not a state of mind. It is the act of separation from evil in mind and body. GOD sanctified us and continues to sanctify us, but we must also sanctify ourselves in order for his sanctification to continue.

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 1 Peter 3:15

For this is the will of God: your sanctification [that] you abstain from sexual immorality; 1 Thessalonians 4:3​

 

[valiant]

Dear reader please note EG reply. It is not walking in righteousness, or even walking in perfection, it is am I perfect.

I will never be perfect until I am transformed into Jesus's likeness, at the last day. But I can and do walk in righteousness.
Every christian is able to walk in righteousness, else why are we saved.

The apostles called the believers pure and holy, walking in grace and righteousness.
If people sinned they repented, confessed and walked on.

This demonstrates EG does not believe anyone can walk as Jesus intended through the cross, it was all a waste of time.

We are sinners saved by grace. Our righteousness is the power of God at work in us. If I have not been changed, if Gods work has failed, then why am I witnessing. If there was nothing of value but a mild hope, no change of behaviour or heart, why be a christian at all. Do you see the emptiness of this approach and position?

It is a denial of the letters Paul wrote. We are christs body on earth, real righteous behaviour is possible, or else you are lost. All EG is stating is that for him it is impossible. My answer is fine, I cannot testify to anyone elses walk but my own.

your words show you know nothing of the humility of Christ or you would not charge your brother in that way. it shows what manner of spirit you are of.

 

[PeterJens]

Some of "these" people?? Dude, you just described yourself. You are one of "these" people. We all are.

I am sorry, I am not even close to this list. Few people I know fit this scale. I have worked with some who are way up the scale and they should scare you.

So your reply worries me. I do not know your background, but most people score very low on identification of themselves here. I do not mind being called out on things known about me or things I have done, but to project this on to everybody shows your lack of understanding people "lack of empathy", and not knowing the differences people choose to take in life.

From another perspective, you being an ardent Hyper-grace follower was partly why I put this list up because the arguments or points I am making would not register to someone who ticked most of these boxes.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I am sorry, I am not even close to this list. Few people I know fit this scale. I have worked with some who are way up the scale and they should scare you.

So your reply worries me. I do not know your background, but most people score very low on identification of themselves here. I do not mind being called out on things known about me or things I have done, but to project this on to everybody shows your lack of understanding people "lack of empathy", and not knowing the differences people choose to take in life.

From another perspective, you being an ardent Hyper-grace follower was partly why I put this list up because the arguments or points I am making would not register to someone who ticked most of these boxes.

I think we can all see the problem. Thank you for clarifying it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Look at the following list

• grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
• lack of remorse or guilt
• failure to accept responsibility for own actions
• many short-term marital relationships
• shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
• callousness and lack of empathy
• poor behavioral controls
• sexual promiscuity
• pathological lying
• cunning and manipulativeness

Imagine you gave a person like this the gospel and they could preach it.
In all my tests on personality traits I would fall into the catagory of being a victim of such people like this, because I too easily take them at face value.

Now some of these people have converted, and walk in the faith while others have serious trouble staying on the straight and narrow.

When anyone changes their story, or things do not add up, or they seem to show no empathy, it is often time to close down. If someone has a cold heart, you cannot bring it into life, you are merely a person in the way of their grand goal or mission, you are nothing but an obstacle.

So be wise as serpents but as innocent as doves as there are many in sheeps clothing who have a heart of a wolf, to devour you and leave you for dead.

sounds like most legalists I know. They may be in hiding, but the truth always comes out..

 

[oldthennew]

yes, such were we when we were dead in the world...after conversion we are not suddenly
innocent, and our past, worldly, behavior does follow us in the beginning of our 'new-walk',
but we soon begin learning from our Saviour's example, how to walk in The Light, His Light....
we begin to learn how to be 're-newed' in our minds....and we learn how to die daily....
we begin to 'over-come' those behaviours that identified us as members of a dark and dying world...

1COR.6:9-10.
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived:
neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

our New Walk is from conversion until our deaths....as it is written, 'I have fought the good fight of Faith'...
for someone who was getting ready to be executed for walking as his His Saviour walked, well,
he is one of my human, heroes, a true servant, worker, who was obedient, full of zeal and knowledge, and wisdom,
blessed and chosen of God the Father....

 

[PeterJens]

your words show you know nothing of the humility of Christ or you would not charge your brother in that way. it shows what manner of spirit you are of.

Let me understand you valiant.

Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognised by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.’
Matt 12:33-37

The subject here is the very foundation of what we stand before the King of Kings with and are judged by.
I come here in all honesty and testify to what I know. I speak as the Lord has spoken to me, I share what the Lord has done in my heart and through my life.

Those who oppose me or condemn me, condemn the work the Lord has done. I am standing for simple purity and righteous living. If you condemn this, you condemn Jesus.

It is hard to say I am not being as humble as any mortal can be, but please tell me of my fault and sin, or just listen to the word of the Lord. It does not come simpler than this or more fundamental.

But I rejoice in God my Saviour and in the grace he has poured on me through Jesus Christ my Lord.

You have decided which side of this argument you are on, for which you will answer before the Lord just as I will, and great glory be to His name and to His Son Jesus Christ my Saviour.

 

[ladylynn]

There is a truth, if you agree with a poster, ofcourse their position is clear, you see no problem with it.

The difference between us is on our models of the world. All language is based on this, partly emotional, partly conceptual, often summarised by teachers etc.

A large amount of words does not necessarily make anything clear at all. I have given up trying to put formula or things in boxes, because each box is actually different for each person, depending on how they define it.

Most models rely on crucial assumptions. Without those assumptions everything collapses. Now the crucial assumption in hyper-grace is a new pure, holy, righteous spirit / heart given on request. This is an invention, an idea to justify all the behaviour and language that follows, contradicting both Jesus's words and intention.

To a degree it does not matter, because for many walking in righteousness is impossible, a dream too far off, they are lost forever. God has always been interested in those who have seen the possibility in life of walking truly yet failing to achieve it. So I speak to those who see the dream Jesus offers, and want to answer His question, Do you love me?

If you listen to His words, in your heart, at night, in the day, make them your guide, your truth, your reality, then you will know the Kingdom of the Most High.

It is not anymore complex than this, and it never has been. It is only our sin and miss-understanding that gets in the way. This is why people from the most primitive groups in the world walk in the Spirit while many here who are blessed with riches without measure are lost and have no clue as to the reality within.

Wellll, it's not so much "I" agree with Grace777, but that he agrees with me and posts all the good verses so well. I do get enthusiastic about the gospel of Christ. It's not about partly this or partly that. The truth is usually very clear and sweet like "honey from the honey comb" just like the Bible says. It's the GOOD NEWs ., it's not the BAD NEWS.

As far as new formulas go, Jesus is full of glory and grace. If we want to see the Father we are told to look at the Son. We are the ones who are learning each day and getting a 'clue' We Christians must be willing to re-learn because often we are clueless about the nature of God. And even afterward, we continue to learn about the depths of His love for us and others.

There is a truth, if you agree with a poster, ofcourse their position is clear, you see no problem with it.

The difference between us is on our models of the world. All language is based on this, partly emotional, partly conceptual, often summarised by teachers etc.


God has to take our 'models of the world' and the way we understand our emotions and how we 'conceptualize' what we have been told and what we have always lived and He demolishes a good amount of it as we are open to His Holy Spirit 'transforming' our minds.


A large amount of words does not necessarily make anything clear at all. I have given up trying to put formula or things in boxes, because each box is actually different for each person, depending on how they define it.

Because people want to know the Bible VERSES applied, it often takes a lot of WORDS to make something clearly understood. That does take time. God's salvation is the same for all of us and that doesn't change. What is different is how much we want of it and how much we are willing to accept by faith. This means ignoring some of our previously taught ways of looking at God. If we want to see the Father we are told to look at the Son. That is a life long study.

Most models rely on crucial assumptions. Without those assumptions everything collapses. Now the crucial assumption in hyper-grace is a new pure, holy, righteous spirit / heart given on request. This is an invention, an idea to justify all the behaviour and language that follows, contradicting both Jesus's words and intention.


The Bible is clear that we have been given a new nature., new spirit., new heart. God is the Author of salvation not us and our feelings about it. Have you read about the new birth? It's not a cop out to believe this great love of John 3:16.,it's obedience to believe what He says. I know it sounds too good to be true but we receive it by faith and get out of the way.

We don't justify bad behavior as you are assuming here., we are given by God the GIFT of no condemnation as we pursue living for Christ. We are always pointed away from self and towards Christ. That is the only way the Holy Spirit will develop us is by our submission to let Him live through us.

We get rid of those things you spoke of at the top of your post., our ways of thinking about God must be repented of and we allow Him to show us the truth. We are basically always learning how to be in the mode of getting out-of-the-way and allowing Christ to live through us.

To a degree it does not matter, because for many walking in righteousness is impossible, a dream too far off, they are lost forever. God has always been interested in those who have seen the possibility in life of walking truly yet failing to achieve it. So I speak to those who see the dream Jesus offers, and want to answer His question, Do you love me?

We can't 'love' Jesus unless we first allow Jesus to love us. And really, it does take time to understand how much He loves us. I guess we will be learning for the rest of our lives how much He loves us. It's not a 'dream' as you say here. It's a promise that He will live His life out in us. And don't forget, the Holy Spirit is part of this redemption too. He comes in and seals us till the day of redemption. Then He teaches us and comforts us.

Galatians 2:20. "I have been crucified with Christ.,and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and delivered Himself up for me."

If you listen to His words, in your heart, at night, in the day, make them your guide, your truth, your reality, then you will know the Kingdom of the Most High.

It is not anymore complex than this, and it never has been. It is only our sin and miss-understanding that gets in the way. This is why people from the most primitive groups in the world walk in the Spirit while many here who are blessed with riches without measure are lost and have no clue as to the reality within.

Rich or poor, high IQ or low., none of that matters where faith is concerned. A little child can get saved and often does before us smart adults. Salvation is a gift and kids know how to accept gifts because they have not yet fully developed all that self righteousness and wrong adult thinking. Even the Bible says to come as a child. The wisdom of men doesn't impress God. I agree with you that people make salvation hard because they think we have to work hard when infact Jesus did all the Work for our salvation.

Our job is to believe and follow the Good Shepherd. To rest in the finished work of Christ and live in the JOY of HIS salvation. He takes the burden and makes it lite. His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Why do Christians want to carry a heavy load when Jesus admonishes us to take HIS yoke upon us and learn of Him?? We find then His yoke is easy and His burden is light. I believe Jesus before people who say how awful the Christian life is. No matter how holy or hard working a missionary they seem to be for no matter how many years on the mission field.

I think we Christians need a revelation of who God is and how amazing salvation is. If there is no joy in the life, something is drastically wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear reader please note EG reply. It is not walking in righteousness, or even walking in perfection, it is am I perfect.

Dear reader please not Peters reply. He is being deceptive.
This was his post.

The problem in life is how do you get the power of Jesus working in human flesh.
The proof of failure is sin. The proof of success is righteousness.

Which begs the question, How can one have proof of failure or success if we all still sin? Perfection would be the only means by which one could prove success or failure, I kindly called him out on it, and now he is twisting what was really said.

I will never be perfect until I am transformed into Jesus's likeness, at the last day. But I can and do walk in righteousness. Every christian is able to walk in righteousness, else why are we saved.

a non believer can walk like they are righteous. This does not prove a thing. and again, does not relate to what you said.

The apostles called the believers pure and holy, walking in grace and righteousness.
If people sinned they repented, confessed and walked on.

This demonstrates EG does not believe anyone can walk as Jesus intended through the cross, it was all a waste of time.

No, I believe not only that they can, But they will. For it is God who works in them. You do not even know what I believe, so please stop judging what you do not know.

Your the one who believes that God will fail. and they can fall away, not me.

We are sinners saved by grace. Our righteousness is the power of God at work in us. If I have not been changed, if Gods work has failed, then why am I witnessing. If there was nothing of value but a mild hope, no change of behaviour or heart, why be a christian at all. Do you see the emptiness of this approach and position?

Why are you witnessing, That's my question. Why witness about a Gospel that is not assured in Christs, that can be lost. that is dependent on us, and how hard we work..

It is a denial of the letters Paul wrote. We are christs body on earth, real righteous behaviour is possible, or else you are lost. All EG is stating is that for him it is impossible. My answer is fine, I cannot testify to anyone elses walk but my own.

Are you perfect? Thats what I believe is impossible.. A child of God walking in righteousness?? Yes, they not only can, but they will It is they who are saved..

Sadly you do not believe that, You believe God can fail. and not sanctify a person who is his child. even though God said he will continue that work forever..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sanctification is not a state of mind.

I never said it was, so please stop trying to continuously put words in my mouth.

It is the act of separation from evil in mind and body. GOD sanctified us and continues to sanctify us, but we must also sanctify ourselves in order for his sanctification to continue.

It is not that either, It is our heart, If our heart is following the Law of love we are walking in Christ at that moment, If our heart is following the flesh at that moment, we are living as the world.

It is conditioned on our heart, in all we do. Are we following the spirit. or not. It is our focus, Not our mind, or our body.

​

 

[gb9]

one thing that gets ignored on here every day is this. If a person is born again. they become a new creature in Christ. the old has passed away, all things have become new. so, if someone says, yeah, I am a believer, but act the exact same way they did as before, then they are not a new creature. so, this would mean the person WAS NOT TRULY BORN AGAIN. which is not the failure of God, it is the person deceiving themselves.

not everyone who says they are a Jesus-follower really is. so the saved-by-works-junk falls apart when you understand the new heart is GIVEN by Christ. if a person CHOOSES to RECEIVE it. not work into it.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Sanctification is not a state of mind. It is the act of separation from evil in mind and body.

Very Gnostic thinking indeed.

 

[gb9]

and , as e.g. says, God's standard is perfection. not almost. not very close. perfect. so either you are perfect or you are not. no other options. 99.9% holy and righteous.?? Go before Go?? fail!!!

 

[Grace777x70]

Why don't we believe in Jesus and in His finished work for us?..Why does it always come back to Jesus all the time?..

..it's as if the Holy Spirit can not be trusted to deal with us and reveal Jesus to us.....the self-salvation mindset always "need to do something"...but if we acknowledge who we are iN Christ..this makes our faith "effective"....and then He effects the real change in us....by seeing Him...and then His life changes us....that is the transformation...

Philemon 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

Very Gnostic thinking indeed.

 

[pwrnJC]

I am not sure what you mean by "Why does it always come back to Jesus all the time?" Jesus was in the beginning and HE will be there in the end. GOD is spirit. JESUS was flesh, now ressurected in a new body (like His followers will have) and His Holy Spirit is our Comfortor. Jesus is our All in All. HE fulfilled the O.T Law, HE broke the bonds of hell, death and the grave. God Himself placed the name of JESUS above ALL names...so why not let it all come back to Jesus?

 

[PeterJens]

I have a theory. If you identify strongly with the list of traits, you will find it very hard to be righteous or get even close, or even know what it means.
If most or all of the traits are not who you ever were, you will find the idea of righteousness easy and probably match your aspirations.

This probably dictates in this discussion which camp you fall into. It does not though change the nature of righteousness or our goal, to be like Jesus.

Whoever has ears, let them hear....
For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, “He has a demon.” The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, “Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.” But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.
Matt 11:15 18-19

Some here think seeing the truth of where we are is self justification rather than accepting reality. We are called to be like Him, if we cannot see or face areas that need addressing we a blind lost people.

But the is what Hyper-Grace want, because seeing the truth is self works.