The neo-Gnostic spirit of New.Modern.Hyper Grace

[BenFTW]

I have that authority in Christ. Translators do it all of the time. I'm translating for you.

...

Is it any wonder why people disagree with you about the Bible? You're adding things in. lol

 

[BenFTW]

So "sins" are not works? If I steal something; isn't a "work" - isn't that a "sin".

I mean, in context to works and the verses I put up, if we consider sin a work we can conclude it will be burned up but the person is still saved, "yet so as by fire." So even if we consider sin a work, a bad one, we know its just burnt up and the good remains in order to receive rewards.

 

[Grace777x70]

Not sure where you get "give an account "..from.....the word for "appear"'

5319 phaneróō (from 5457 /phṓs, "light") – properly, illumine, make manifest (visible); (figuratively) make plain, in open view; to become apparent ("graspable").

The word in the text that is used most has a different word for bad..it's worthless..different greek word...there are alalso different texts that are used..the one used the most has the Greek word here as "Phaulos"

Here is the link below if you want to see it..

2 Corinthians 5:10 Interlinear: for all of us it behoveth to be manifested before the tribunal of the Christ, that each one may receive the things done through the body, in reference to the things that he did, whether good or evil;


Here is the actual scripture...

2 Corinthians 5:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. ( again..the best texts have "worthless" ..)

I know the "judgment seat" of Christ is the bema - I also know that that is where rewards will be handed out. If I am running in a race - in order to win - receive a reward, wouldn't I have to obey the terms of the "competition" or forfeit my rewards?

I am not going to give an account of what Christ did - but what I did in MY body.

kakos - (G2556) adj. - 1) of a bad nature; A. not such as it ought to be; 2) of a mode of thinking, feeling, acting A. base, wrong, wicked; 3) troublesome, injurious, pernicious, destructive, baneful (translated evil 40x) Strong's
Vines Expository Dictionary: bad - indicates the lack in a person or thing of those qualities which should be possessed; it means "bad in character"

 

[KennethC]

I have that authority in Christ. Translators do it all of the time. I'm translating for you.

You do realize there are 3 times I know at least in the Word of God that warns about adding or taking away from His Word ???

 

[Willie-T]

I have that authority in Christ. Translators do it all of the time. I'm translating for you.

I'm afraid I don't know how to answer a "bible" you have rewritten to suit yourself. Didn't the Mormons and JW's do that also?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

All of that was fine right up to the last line. If I forgave someone and yet they kept coming back to me and asking again for the forgiveness I have already given to them, I would be hurt and insulted. What do you think it does to God?

Romans 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. - this is what happens at the time I repent - turn from becoming an unbeliever to a believer, i.e. a child of God. True, I don't go back and ask God to forgive me for those things in the past - they are forgiven and He doesn't even bring them back to mind - no matter how many times my old man wants to bring them back to MY mind.

So NOW I am born again; a child of God - let's say I steal something - I don't have to do anything because it is already forgiven? I lie - I don't have to apologize because it's already forgiven? I let corrupt communication come out of my mouth - I don't have to apologize because it's already forgiven? I treat my earthly parents with more respect than that! I go against what my earthly father tells me - I respect him enough to apologize . . . I don't owe God the same respect?

 

[Willie-T]

You do realize there are 3 times I know at least in the Word of God that warns about adding or taking away from His Word ???

Absolutely!

I can fully understand one person's interpretation of God's words not aligning with someone else's, but I can't fathom adding words into or subtracting them from actual quoted scripture to make it say what you want it to say.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

...

Is it any wonder why people disagree with you about the Bible? You're adding things in. lol

Oh LOL Ben. Are you perhaps overstepping your authority to imply that you speak for 'people'?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Absolutely!

I can fully understand one person's interpretation of God's words not aligning with someone else's, but I can't fathom adding words into or subtracting them from actual quoted scripture to make it say what you want it to say.

That's why I use square brackets when I do that. Translators do that all of the time. I'm your personal translator.

 

[BenFTW]

Romans 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. - this is what happens at the time I repent - turn from becoming an unbeliever to a believer, i.e. a child of God. True, I don't go back and ask God to forgive me for those things in the past - they are forgiven and He doesn't even bring them back to mind - no matter how many times my old man wants to bring them back to MY mind.

So NOW I am born again; a child of God - let's say I steal something - I don't have to do anything because it is already forgiven? I lie - I don't have to apologize because it's already forgiven? I let corrupt communication come out of my mouth - I don't have to apologize because it's already forgiven? I treat my earthly parents with more respect than that! I go against what my earthly father tells me - I respect him enough to apologize . . . I don't owe God the same respect?

You're more than free to do that, dare I say such openness with the Lord is encouraged. Mentally, however, one should be aware that your confession isn't granting you forgiveness. You already have it in Jesus Christ.

However, forgiveness aside, you can be completely open with the Lord about your process of sanctification. Sure, "Sorry Lord, I keep messing this up. I want to be better than this, and I know according to your word I am. So Lord, I just ask you to help me to renew my mind to your truths so that my actions are sanctified."

I have told the Lord my sin, not with a face of fear or expectation of judgement, but as a genuine struggle and I tell Him that I know one day I will walk in the victory that is mine in Christ. I ask Him to help me to renew my mind so that I walk out that victory. I can be completely open with the Lord, and why wouldn't we? Its not as if we can hide it from an omniscient God. lol

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I'm afraid I don't know how to answer a "bible" you have rewritten to suit yourself. Didn't the Mormons and JW's do that also?

OK let's cut to the chase. What do you think Christ was holding against those sinning in his churches? If you can't come up with something more convincing than sin, then aren't you being just a little bit disingenuous?

 

[FreeNChrist]

So "sins" are not works? If I steal something; isn't a "work" - isn't that a "sin".

Have not our sins already been judged? Was not the verdict guilty as charged? And did not Jesus take all of that guilt and the punishment rightfully due us upon Himself?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Hey peacefulbeliever, nice seeing you. I just wanted to interject a little and give you my perspective on the part about not feeling condemned in your heart and then having confidence before God.

Okay, where you feel that once you have asked for forgiveness you then don't feel condemned and have confidence before God, I have that all the time. That is the difference. Those feelings of condemnation and lack of confidence come when we don't realize that there is no condemnation in Jesus Christ. God isn't out to get us, and that peace you feel after confessing is already and continuously felt by those who subscribe to what others have deemed "hyper-grace."

Hey Ben - I have been meaning to tell you that it's good to see you back! No condemnation in Christ to those who walk by the Spirit - If I steal something - I have sinned and apparently walking by the flesh (which at times does happen to everyone) do we let those things "done in the flesh" pile up or are they just automatically forgiven without us going to our Father and saying we are sorry? I know my heavenly Father is not out to get us - that is NOT why I ask for forgiveness when I screw up . . .

So that peace that you obtain after confessing your sins is a current and present reality I walk in without the need to confess in order to be forgiven because I know in Christ I am forgiven. There is already peace present and that is exactly why I can be completely open with the Lord (including my sins) because my heart doesn't condemn me, because I understand that Christ doesn't condemn me and in Him there is no condemnation. So what others are working towards, that peace, I am already there resting. Not a matter of finding that peace after asking for forgiveness but resting in His grace that has already given me that peace.

I also am completely open with the Lord, including my sins, but I do tell him I am sorry - therefore I have peace and no condemnation. I do not ever think that I have "lost my salvation" - I do not "wallow" in my sins . . . it's an automatic thing - immediately when I do something wrong - most of the time I just say - Oops, sorry Father. It's not like it's a big deal - and I am hammering myself daily over the head - it just comes out automatically!!

I guess it's just foreign to me - this "hyper grace". Maybe it's my age Love ya Ben!

 

[KennethC]

I mean, in context to works and the verses I put up, if we consider sin a work we can conclude it will be burned up but the person is still saved, "yet so as by fire." So even if we consider sin a work, a bad one, we know its just burnt up and the good remains in order to receive rewards.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 is about works of the faith, or in other words faithful servitude.

Works of the flesh or sins is not being mentioned in this passage, and we know this from verse 12 the gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, and straw are works building on the foundation of Christ.

We can not build on His foundation with sinful actions/deeds/works !!!

Example of the hay, wood, and stubble would be one who just remains a very small to almost non-active member of the congregation.

Example of the precious stones would be joining the choir or other activities of the church.

Example of the silver would be leadership roles in the church such as minister, financial clerk, and etc.

Example of the gold would be minister and evangelist roles.


1 Corinthians 3:17 is when works of the flesh or sinful behavior gets thrown in, as it says if we defile ourselves God will destroy us because we are the temple of God !!!

 

[Willie-T]

You guys just don't seem to get it. It is NOT feeling sorry for our transgressions, and FULLY expressing that to God in confession of the wrongs we do that I object to. I do those very things on almost a daily basis. My puzzlement comes from you not believing God when he says all our sins are ALREADY taken care of by Jesus' sacrifice.

IF we are able to keep ourselves clean by asking for forgiveness all the time.... why did Jesus have to die? The Holy Spirit was on the Earth, and able to give us that power LONG BEFORE Jesus was ever born. Jesus had to die before the Spirit could do anything? Not according to the Bible.... right from the Spirit being all over the newly created Earth.

 

[John146]

1 Corinthians 3:15, "If any man's work shall be burned (wood,hay,stubble), he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

A man can have no works but will be saved. Why? He had the foundation, Jesus Christ. What he built upon that foundation was earthly things. Sin is not the issue at the JSOC, but rather a man's labor. See also 2 Corinthians 5:10.

 

[BenFTW]

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 is about works of the faith, or in other words faithful servitude.

Works of the flesh or sins is not being mentioned in this passage, and we know this from verse 12 the gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, and straw are works building on the foundation of Christ.

We can not build on His foundation with sinful actions/deeds/works !!!

Example of the hay, wood, and stubble would be one who just remains a very small to almost non-active member of the congregation.

Example of the precious stones would be joining the choir or other activities of the church.

Example of the silver would be leadership roles in the church such as minister, financial clerk, and etc.

Example of the gold would be minister and evangelist roles.


1 Corinthians 3:17 is when works of the flesh or sinful behavior gets thrown in, as it says if we defile ourselves God will destroy us because we are the temple of God !!!

Sorry Kenneth, we hold diametrically opposed views of the Gospel. So if you don't mind, I am going to pass this up as we have gone over this many times in the past. It'll just be fruitless.

PS: That was a hypothetical I was speaking of, btw. I wasn't saying works were sins, but saying IF they were they would be burnt up.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

You're more than free to do that, dare I say such openness with the Lord is encouraged. Mentally, however, one should be aware that your confession isn't granting you forgiveness. You already have it in Jesus Christ.

However, forgiveness aside, you can be completely open with the Lord about your process of sanctification. Sure, "Sorry Lord, I keep messing this up. I want to be better than this, and I know according to your word I am. So Lord, I just ask you to help me to renew my mind to your truths so that my actions are sanctified."

I have told the Lord my sin, not with a face of fear or expectation of judgement, but as a genuine struggle and I tell Him that I know one day I will walk in the victory that is mine in Christ. I ask Him to help me to renew my mind so that I walk out that victory. I can be completely open with the Lord, and why wouldn't we? Its not as if we can hide it from an omniscient God. lol

My sentiments also!

 

[KennethC]

You guys just don't seem to get it. It is NOT feeling sorry for our transgressions, and FULLY expressing that to God in confession of the wrongs we do that I object to. I do those very things on almost a daily basis. My puzzlement comes from you not believing God when he says all our sins are ALREADY taken care of by Jesus' sacrifice.

IF we are able to keep ourselves clean by asking for forgiveness all the time.... why did Jesus have to die? The Holy Spirit was on the Earth, and able to give us that power LONG BEFORE Jesus was ever born. Jesus had to die before the Spirit could do anything? Not according to the Bible.... right from the Spirit being all over the newly created Earth.

Show me one scripture that shows future sins are automatically forgiven in the bible ????


I know two that are straight forward from Paul and Peter that show they are not..................

 

[FreeNChrist]

Romans 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. - this is what happens at the time I repent - turn from becoming an unbeliever to a believer, i.e. a child of God. True, I don't go back and ask God to forgive me for those things in the past - they are forgiven and He doesn't even bring them back to mind - no matter how many times my old man wants to bring them back to MY mind.

So NOW I am born again; a child of God - let's say I steal something - I don't have to do anything because it is already forgiven? I lie - I don't have to apologize because it's already forgiven? I let corrupt communication come out of my mouth - I don't have to apologize because it's already forgiven? I treat my earthly parents with more respect than that! I go against what my earthly father tells me - I respect him enough to apologize . . . I don't owe God the same respect?

What did Paul say? If you've been stealing, cut it out and get a job so you can give to those in need. Very practical advice. You have your forgiveness in Christ. That isn't the issue any longer.