The neo-Gnostic spirit of New.Modern.Hyper Grace

[DP]

Communion is not a time to remember sin, it is a time to remember Christ. It's a celebration of what Christ has already done and finished for us. We do not go to confess our sins., we go to Confess Jesus Christ and remember Him.,,do this in remembrance of "Me" He said.

The confession of sin is for those who do not have Christ yet. Coming to the table 'unworthily' is coming without Christ. We believers have Him 'already'. There are no fearful expectations for the bride. We are to come to communion together as believers often to remember what Christ did for us when He shed His blood and when He suffered on the cross and finished the work. He said "it is finished" And we can rejoice and also say it is finished., and we can rejoice and be so grateful that Jesus was willing to do this for us and loved us that much. That is what we are to think about when we go to communion.

Since Jesus has already saved us we come in a worthy manner and there is no other One who is worthy but Christ. That is why we come with Him as our Savior and can partake worthily. Coming any other way IS unworthy.

I believe and am convinced the more reading I do on how Christians believe here on these forums, that if we truly want to KNOW the meanings of the verses, we are to read and read again and again and read the Bible often.

For years I just followed the rest and came to communion with fear and not joy. I did not come as one who was already saved but as one who had some expectation of judgment. At times I did not partake because I thought I could be zapped in the pew for not asking forgiveness for a specific sin or may have missed one.

That is not how sons come.,that is not how the bride comes. We have already been judged and we are accepted in the Beloved. We come to communion to confirm again that truth and are again renewed and joyful. We come to remember Christ., not our sins., for they are forgiven and forgotten as far as the east is from the west.

What you're saying is what those Hyper-Grace prophets have taught you, but not what Scripture actually says:

1 Cor 11:26-31
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
KJV



2 Cor 13:5
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
KJV

Thus Holy Communion with Christ is not only... about remembrance of His death and resurrection, but also a time we actually 'communicate' (meaning of communion) with Him, examining our Walk with Him, and that means recognizing future sins and talking to Him about it, repenting.

 

[DP]

Yeeessshh try as we might, we cannot do it, we cannot "try and make a change". It's been done and we are righteous today if we have accepted Jesus Christ finished work on our behalf. Otherwise we are trying to stand in the place we are already standing? That is very frustrating because your not going anywhere on your own. Basically what you end up doing is riding a stationary bike., working hard and going no where. (did that for many years,lots of good works done in the flesh and not in the Spirit)

No joy, no peace.,no fruits of the Spirit., only a fearful expectation of judgment.

The only way to be in Christ's righteousness is not become a reprobate.

2 Cor 13:5
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
KJV

If one is a reprobate, then Christ is not in them. Simple as that. Not examining oneself of sin and walking by the flesh is how to become a reprobate against Christ Jesus.

 

[Grace777x70]

That is what your religion has taught you.....about "looking at yourself for sin"

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a grace-based teaching on the finished work of Christ concerning communion...

Can Unbelievers Take Communion?

Communion ought to be a time of celebrating Christ’s finished work on the cross. It ought to be a time when we proclaim his victory over sin and sickness.

Yet for many, communion is a time of navel-gazing self-examination. It’s a time of asking, Am I good enough for God? Am I worthy?

Although Jesus said “take this cup in remembrance of me,” often we drink it in remembrance of ourselves. This is a misplaced focus. Communion isn’t about you but him. As I have explained elsewhere, communion is a time for receiving the full benefits of what Jesus paid for.

Yet many churches have rules stipulating who can and cannot take communion. Never mind whether you are good enough for God, the real question is whether you are good enough to eat our crackers and drink our grape juice!

I’m not making light of communion. I understand where these rules come from. They come from these three verses:

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. (1 Cor 11:27-29, KJV)

These are heavy-duty verses but you need to understand that Paul is not saying, “If you do communion wrong, God will damn you to hell. He’ll smite you with sickness and death.” No, when Paul tells the Corinthians, “your meetings do more harm than good” (1 Cor 11:17), he is simply saying:

Your meetings are a disgrace. You’re competing with each other (v.18), playing silly games of one-upmanship (v.19), and being incredibly selfish (v.21). Some of you are even getting drunk while others are missing out completely (v.21). By acting this way they you are despising the church and humiliating those who have nothing (v.22).

If anyone is interested you can click on the link below for the rest of the article....it'll bless you and make you fall deeper in love with our Lord Jesus!

Can Unbelievers Take Communion? – Escape to Reality

 

[FreeNChrist]

The only way to be in Christ's righteousness is not become a reprobate.

2 Cor 13:5
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
KJV

If one is a reprobate, then Christ is not in them. Simple as that. Not examining oneself of sin and walking by the flesh is how to become a reprobate against Christ Jesus.

Do you realize you put sin in the place of Jesus Christ?

 

[Grace777x70]

“Because of your new identity in Christ, being yourself and expressing Christ are one and the same. God has arranged it so that our new self and our union with His Spirit cause us to want what He wants.

God has the market cornered on true fulfillment, and He has installed within us an intense and never-ending desire to find fulfillment through expressing His life.

Christ living through you is not a feeling. It’s not an emotional experience that you pursue. Having Christ live through you is really about knowing who you are and being yourself.

Since Christ is your life, your source of true fulfillment, you’ll only be content when you are expressing Him. As you express Him, you also express who God has made you to be.”​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Ok, thanks. So they don't believe Jesus is real then?

That was not addressed in the OP.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This has been quite a thread. I can hardly believe how prevalent the attitude is that you have to make yourself as miserable as you can to be worthy of Eternal Life. This is like those modern-day pilgrims who beat and cut themselves while crawling on bare rocks for miles to go worship at a certain place.

Exaggerate much?

 

[BenFTW]

So saying "Hey sorry about that Father" is making me miserable . . . . is me beating and cutting myself . . . . being a martyr?

Not in my mind . . . and it is not making me worthy of eternal life - by confessing Jesus Christ has made me worthy of eternal life - that and that only.

Come and hear, all you who fear God, and I will tell what he has done for my soul. I cried to him with my mouth and high praise was on my tongue. If I had cherished iniquity in my heart, the Lord would not have listened . . . . Psalm 66:16-18 (ESV)

If I had been aware of malice in my heart, the Lord would not have listened. Psalm 66:18 (HCSB)

Before you go there - I know this is OT but principles of life stand true and are very beneficial - This is not a LAW; it is just a principle set before us. When I ask forgiveness then my heart doesn't condemn me and I have confidence before God.

Hey peacefulbeliever, nice seeing you. I just wanted to interject a little and give you my perspective on the part about not feeling condemned in your heart and then having confidence before God.

Okay, where you feel that once you have asked for forgiveness you then don't feel condemned and have confidence before God, I have that all the time. That is the difference. Those feelings of condemnation and lack of confidence come when we don't realize that there is no condemnation in Jesus Christ. God isn't out to get us, and that peace you feel after confessing is already and continuously felt by those who subscribe to what others have deemed "hyper-grace."

So that peace that you obtain after confessing your sins is a current and present reality I walk in without the need to confess in order to be forgiven because I know in Christ I am forgiven. There is already peace present and that is exactly why I can be completely open with the Lord (including my sins) because my heart doesn't condemn me, because I understand that Christ doesn't condemn me and in Him there is no condemnation. So what others are working towards, that peace, I am already there resting. Not a matter of finding that peace after asking for forgiveness but resting in His grace that has already given me that peace.

 

[BenFTW]

I just have a question: If we do not need to ask forgiveness for things done after we are born again - ALL sins being forgiven - past, present, future - Why would we stand before the judgment seat of Christ to be answerable to things done in this body whether good or bad? (2 Cor. 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or bad.) If all has been forgiven - where is the bad?

This is in reference to works, as FreeNChrist pointed out.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15King James Version (KJV)

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The Judgement seat of Christ (aka the Bema seat of Christ) is a determination of rewards. Not having to do with sin, but works and those that remain are rewarded and those that aren't are burnt up gaining us nothing.

 

[Willie-T]

So saying "Hey sorry about that Father" is making me miserable . . . . is me beating and cutting myself . . . . being a martyr?

Not in my mind . . . and it is not making me worthy of eternal life - by confessing Jesus Christ has made me worthy of eternal life - that and that only.

Come and hear, all you who fear God, and I will tell what he has done for my soul. I cried to him with my mouth and high praise was on my tongue. If I had cherished iniquity in my heart, the Lord would not have listened . . . . Psalm 66:16-18 (ESV)

If I had been aware of malice in my heart, the Lord would not have listened. Psalm 66:18 (HCSB)

Before you go there - I know this is OT but principles of life stand true and are very beneficial - This is not a LAW; it is just a principle set before us. When I ask forgiveness then my heart doesn't condemn me and I have confidence before God.

You just hit the secret, right there. What has condemned you that you need to "satisfy?" You just said it, Your own heart. Not God, but yourself and YOUR OWN heart.

So, in order for you to "Have confidence before God", you feel you have to go through the act of asking for the forgiveness you were already told is yours. (You have to cut yourself, or crawl just one more mile to earn that forgiveness you aren't quite yet certain you have if you do not do those things.)

Don't you see if you feel you have to do these things on a repetitive basis..... where is your TRUST in what Jesus did as truly being enough? It's not there. You have to do something more. His work was only just barely good enough to get you "cleaned-up" to a certain point. From that day, on, you have to do what Jesus can't.

 

[BenFTW]

And with that stroke, you have just un-written about 1/3 of New Testament teaching regarding our need for continued repentance to Christ of our future sins and walking by The Spirit instead of walking by our flesh.

If I'm not mistaken I see myself continually typing to repent, only not in the traditional sense that is practically just a boast in the flesh. I continue to promote a concept of repentance that has to do with renewing our minds. Oh, and yes this repentance does address sin in our lives. It actually sets us free from it and isn't just an empty promise to God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You just hit the secret, right there. What has condemned you that you need to "satisfy?" You just said it, Your own heart. Not God, but yourself and YOUR OWN heart.

So, in order for you to "Have confidence before God", you feel you have to go through the act of asking for the forgiveness you were already told is yours. (You have to cut yourself, or crawl just one more mile to earn that forgiveness you aren't quite yet certain you have if you do not do those things.)

Don't you see if you feel you have to do these things on a repetitive basis..... where is your TRUST in what Jesus did as truly being enough? It's not there. You have to do something more. His work was only just barely good enough to get you "cleaned-up" to a certain point. From that day, on, you have to do what Jesus can't.

This whole idea is based on the belief that all sin was forgiven at the cross. Revelation 2-3 proves that cannot be the case because - "I hold [your sin] against you...". If all sin was forgiven at the cross, how could Jesus possibly hold their sins against them? Yet he did.

What the cross did was seal the new covenant with Israel that guarantees forgiveness of sin in the here and now. Christ, our high priest, is currently making reconciliation for sin in heaven with his blood. However, if people are so jaded to think that they can sin against GOD and it's not a problem because GOD just forgives sin automatically without their participation in the reconciliation process, well that's their problem.

 

[Grace777x70]

As long as there continues to be mis-representation I will continue to put teaching articles up...

and that leads us to again this...Myth 1: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against Repentance

Hyper-grace preachers say there’s no need for repentance. They dismiss repentance as unbelief.” Actually, hyper-grace preachers are for repentance, not against it. We say things like “repentance is essential” and “repentance is to be our lifestyle.” We are for repentance, for without it no one can receive the grace of God.
But what is repentance?

Repentance is one of those words that means different things to different people. Those with a performance-oriented mindset typically interpret repentance as turning from sin. It’s something you do (turn) as a result of something you’ve done (sinned). It’s fixing what you broke. It’s atoning for your mistakes. It’s sewing fig leaves to hide your shame.

In contrast, faith-based repentance is always done in response to something God has done. It’s the change of heart and mind that happens when you encounter His grace.

A mixed-grace gospel will define repentance in terms of a prescribed set of behaviors (e.g., turning from sin) and emotions (e.g., sorrow and grief). But insisting on the proper way to repent is tantamount to putting people under law.
The fruit of repentance may take 101 different forms—don’t limit God—but repentance itself is simply a change of mind.

It’s what the word literally means.

In the words of Watchman Nee:

Repentance … means a change of mind! Formerly I thought sin a pleasant thing, but now I have changed my mind about it; formerly I thought the world an attractive place, but now I know better; formerly I regarded it a miserable business to be a Christian, but now I think differently.

Once I thought certain things delightful, now I think them vile; once I thought other things utterly worthless, now I think them most precious. That is a change of mind, and that is repentance. No life can be truly changed apart from such a change of mind. (The Normal Christian Life, p.132)

We all agree that repentance is a good thing and that there should be more of it, but how do we get people to repent? A mixed-grace preacher will use carrots (“Turn from sin if you want to see God”) and sticks (“If you don’t, you’ll pay the price”), but this is the way of the flesh, not faith.

This sort of repentance will lead you to trust in your own repenting efforts and miss grace. Consider the Pharisees. They turned from sin on a daily basis yet they did not recognize the Grace of God even as He came and stood among them.

For the rest of the teaching you can click the link below..

Myth 1: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against Repentance – Escape to Reality

 

[Willie-T]

This whole idea is based on the belief that all sin was forgiven at the cross. Revelation 2-3 proves that cannot be the case because - "I hold [your sin] against you...". If all sin was forgiven at the cross, how could Jesus possibly hold their sins against them? Yet he did.

What the cross did was seal the new covenant with Israel that guarantees forgiveness of sin in the here and now. Christ, our high priest, is currently making reconciliation for sin in heaven with his blood. However, if people are so jaded to think that they can sin against GOD and it's not a problem because GOD just forgives sin automatically without their participation in the reconciliation process, well that's their problem.

How do you justify adding words to Revelation that are not there?

 

[Grace777x70]

1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.

have been forgiven = perfect passive

Perfect Tense

The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.

passive = mood = action is happening to you....you are not doing it

Without a doubt this verse says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous state and that was put on them....not something they did


Brethren ...we have a great salvation in our Lord!

Here are some more scriptures on the forgiveness of God thru the precious blood of our Lord!....


Ephesians 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

We have redemption = present continuous action...so this means we have present continuous forgiveness of our sins...and look...that hyper-grace stuff shows up again!...it's all according to our loving Father's grace that He has given to us in Christ our Lord.

Colossians 1:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Same thing here too...present continuous action = forgiveness of sins


Redemption!..we have been bought with the precious Blood of Jesus... Let's honor His work!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If I'm not mistaken I see myself continually typing to repent, only not in the traditional sense that is practically just a boast in the flesh. I continue to promote a concept of repentance that has to do with renewing our minds. Oh, and yes this repentance does address sin in our lives. It actually sets us free from it and isn't just an empty promise to God.

In the bible, repentance is never about renewing one's mind. It is always about turning back and going in the opposite direction of a former path. Renewal of the mind is accomplished through prayer, study, faith, cleansing, love, etc., and it doesn't involve going in the opposite direction, but persisting in the same direction. When sin enters to change this direction, then repentance is needed to correct the path to its original direction.

So your definition of repentance make absolutely no sense, unless you are constantly going in the wrong direction.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

How do you justify adding words to Revelation that are not there?

I have that authority in Christ. Translators do it all of the time. I'm translating for you.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Thee bad means "worthless"....those deeds done in the body that are from self-effort..those are the wood, hay and stubble which means they are "worthless".....a opposed to the gold, silver and precious gems..those are the "works" done by the life of Christ in us working through and in us..

judgment seat = Greek = bema seat = where they got rewards for things done during the Roman games..not judged for sins as religion has said to us in the past..

I know the "judgment seat" of Christ is the bema - I also know that that is where rewards will be handed out. If I am running in a race - in order to win - receive a reward, wouldn't I have to obey the terms of the "competition" or forfeit my rewards?

I am not going to give an account of what Christ did - but what I did in MY body.

[FONT=&quot]Phaulos[/FONT] suggests “indifference” or simply “worthlessness.” Among the Greek philosophers, the Stoics divided men into two groups: those who were [FONT=&quot]spoudaios[/FONT] (4558), “eager, energetic, purposeful,” and those who were [FONT=&quot]phaulos[/FONT], “lazy, worthless, useless” (see Trench, [FONT=&quot]Synonyms of the New Testament[/FONT], p.296).
Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Sigma-Omega.

kakos - (G2556) adj. - 1) of a bad nature; A. not such as it ought to be; 2) of a mode of thinking, feeling, acting A. base, wrong, wicked; 3) troublesome, injurious, pernicious, destructive, baneful (translated evil 40x) Strong's
Vines Expository Dictionary: bad - indicates the lack in a person or thing of those qualities which should be possessed; it means "bad in character"

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Works, not sins.

So "sins" are not works? If I steal something; isn't a "work" - isn't that a "sin".