Then pastor Bob died....
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Yet has me on ignore, but I feel led to comment.
First, the OP is a fictitious and slanderous story. I think Yet needs to think about the Bible, and actually quote it. Maybe he needs to actually read the whole Bible, instead of these ridiculous verses he has torn out of context, like Acts 20. This is about Paul and the people he loves and has carried the message of the gospel to, as well as how he has shepherded them, and how sad they are he is leaving. Paul notes FOR HIMSELF, that he has not asked for money.
"Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.” 2 Tim. 5:17-18
"For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned? Does he not speak entirely for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more? Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? ..." 1 Cor. 9:9-13
"In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel." 1 Cor. 9:14
"For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat." 2 Thess. 3:7-10
And here is one in which Paul talks about a "gift" to meet his needs. Just like I give gifts at my church to help the pastors, and the elders and the church building upkeep.
"Even in Thessalonica you sent me help for my needs once and again. Not that I seek the gift, but I seek the fruit that increases to your credit. I have received full payment, and more. I am well supplied, having received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent, a fragrant offering, a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God. And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus."
"What then is my reward? That in my preaching I may present the gospel free of charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel. For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them." 1 Cor. 9:18-19
Paul says over and over that he did receive gifts for his work with the gospel and it is the RIGHT of a preacher or teacher to be paid. He says he doesn't on some occasion, but only because he wants people to see he is not just preaching for the money, but for souls.
Yet, you have a bitter heart, you don't know the Bible well, and you are slandering people who have dedicated their lives to serving God and HIS flock. So sorry for you. You are so out of touch with God, with his work, and his love for his people. He does not want them downcast, like a sheep without a shepherd.
"When he saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36
First, the OP is a fictitious and slanderous story. I think Yet needs to think about the Bible, and actually quote it. Maybe he needs to actually read the whole Bible, instead of these ridiculous verses he has torn out of context, like Acts 20. This is about Paul and the people he loves and has carried the message of the gospel to, as well as how he has shepherded them, and how sad they are he is leaving. Paul notes FOR HIMSELF, that he has not asked for money.
"Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.” 2 Tim. 5:17-18
"For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned? Does he not speak entirely for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more? Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? ..." 1 Cor. 9:9-13
"In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel." 1 Cor. 9:14
"For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat." 2 Thess. 3:7-10
And here is one in which Paul talks about a "gift" to meet his needs. Just like I give gifts at my church to help the pastors, and the elders and the church building upkeep.
"Even in Thessalonica you sent me help for my needs once and again. Not that I seek the gift, but I seek the fruit that increases to your credit. I have received full payment, and more. I am well supplied, having received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent, a fragrant offering, a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God. And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus."
"What then is my reward? That in my preaching I may present the gospel free of charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel. For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them." 1 Cor. 9:18-19
Paul says over and over that he did receive gifts for his work with the gospel and it is the RIGHT of a preacher or teacher to be paid. He says he doesn't on some occasion, but only because he wants people to see he is not just preaching for the money, but for souls.
Yet, you have a bitter heart, you don't know the Bible well, and you are slandering people who have dedicated their lives to serving God and HIS flock. So sorry for you. You are so out of touch with God, with his work, and his love for his people. He does not want them downcast, like a sheep without a shepherd.
"When he saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36
Well Angela I am sure he has me on ignore as well, I want to help him understand that what he is doing isn't for God or even about God and certainly isn't preaching the gospel like would claim he only responds to people who agree with him and ignores those who don't he a stubborn unteachable heart and these are not things one of Christ bears. Do you remember Angela how when I first came here you tried to teach me to use scripture to back up my views? Back then I was brand new into faith and relied only on my opinions had I harbored a stubborn unteachable heart I would have rejected your teachings and simply gone with what I saw right.
Back then you weren't trying to be mean you were giving correction and trying to help me grow in faith I received your correction and grew closer to God because of it, in the same way I have attempted to help yet but lashed out and retaliated.
He doesn't see that the devil is using him and while I cannot say if he will go the heaven or hell I can say that the path he walking is one where he and I will not be able to meet.
Back then you weren't trying to be mean you were giving correction and trying to help me grow in faith I received your correction and grew closer to God because of it, in the same way I have attempted to help yet but lashed out and retaliated.
He doesn't see that the devil is using him and while I cannot say if he will go the heaven or hell I can say that the path he walking is one where he and I will not be able to meet.
The verses themselves are not ridiculous how you used them was, it's your choice to ignore us or not but if in fact you intend to teach us the truth then isn't our little debates the way to do it?
when a miner is mining and comes across a very stubborn and very hard rock that is blocking his treasure he doesn't give up because it's so hard he keeps swinging chipping tiny bit by bit and after a long time of doing that he breaks through and finds his treasure, in the same way just because people refuse to listen doesn't mean they are unreachable. I could have decided that you will never listen and will never learn I could have ignored you or just saw you as a lost cause but even though you ignore me have you noticed I continue to try to reason with you even knowing that you most likely will not answer?
when a miner is mining and comes across a very stubborn and very hard rock that is blocking his treasure he doesn't give up because it's so hard he keeps swinging chipping tiny bit by bit and after a long time of doing that he breaks through and finds his treasure, in the same way just because people refuse to listen doesn't mean they are unreachable. I could have decided that you will never listen and will never learn I could have ignored you or just saw you as a lost cause but even though you ignore me have you noticed I continue to try to reason with you even knowing that you most likely will not answer?
Wow. Thanks Blain. I'll keep chipping away atcha. And I'm glad you don't think the scriptures are rediculous.
When I agree with Christ that titles cause arrogance and division, you are simply saying that I'm the one who is rediculous for seeing that titles causes arrogance and division. I'm glad we got through that crisis. Smile.
When I agree with Christ that titles cause arrogance and division, you are simply saying that I'm the one who is rediculous for seeing that titles causes arrogance and division. I'm glad we got through that crisis. Smile.
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I used this question to a lady in the seventh day adventist group.
I explained Jesus died for her sins and forgave her if she was prepared to believe in Him. That day she did.
I do not think Jesus will ask the question, because He has already invited us in, and He is our friend.
Jesus asked Peter, "Do you love me?"
In the parables Jesus answer to the people who come to Him who are not His
"I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!" matt 7:23
So Yet is not very biblical at all, which is strange as his analogy is claiming it is following the word.
Maybe that is quite poetic justice in one way.
I explained Jesus died for her sins and forgave her if she was prepared to believe in Him. That day she did.
I do not think Jesus will ask the question, because He has already invited us in, and He is our friend.
Jesus asked Peter, "Do you love me?"
In the parables Jesus answer to the people who come to Him who are not His
"I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!" matt 7:23
So Yet is not very biblical at all, which is strange as his analogy is claiming it is following the word.
Maybe that is quite poetic justice in one way.
