baptism of the Holy Ghost

[Euphemia]

The point I was making is as I explained. It is to those who claim that a church that teaches tongues is ripe for the devil to get in there and disturb and distort the meeting.

He cannot, because the presence of God is thick and the devil cannot get close. should he try, he would be stupid, because he would be detected immediately and put to rout.

The devil does mock God and His ways, what makes you think he is not going to distort the gift of tongues to make people follow a false version of tongues ???

Yes he does and he actually uses other Christians to do that.

However, a Christian who is Spirit-filled and walking in the Spirit and is employing the wisdom of God can easily detect the wiles of the devil.

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[Stephen63]

When I hear "discussions" like this, I'm reminded of Job's friends who thought they knew how God works. Their arguments sounded valid..... until God spoke to them & told them they were all wrong.

Now, let's look at the tongues issue.....
1 Corinthians 14:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

If an interpretation of tongues was something like this (fictitious example):
"I am going to strengthen my people & prepare them for the trials that are ahead....."

Note that the message is prophetic, for it is spoken by a saint speaking for God, which is the main definition of prophesying, as well as the element of speaking of a future event to come, which also is one example of prophecy.

This equals tongues with prophecy, whether in importance, or in definition..... they are the same.

However, not all tongues with interpretation is prophesying. Praying in tongues & with the interpretation, for example, would not be prophetic. It is simply the Holy Spirit leading & helping us to pray.

 

[pwrnJC]

Dan 473 Any spiritual gift can be beneficial or hurtful? A paradox, indeed!

First of all, if that gift is from GOD, it will always be beneficial, even if we don't physically see the immediate result. And, only to those who refuse or ignore a gift can it be hurtful, due to their choice of not accepting it. To those who refuse CHRIST, of course their eternity is going to be hurtful. CHRIST is THE spiritual gift to all. IT is because of Him, we can have and utilize those 9 gifts listed in Corinthians. Without CHRIST, those gifts are useless because there is NO spiritual goal to be claimed.

 

[un2him]

*one morning shortly after*

in this experience, then, tongues did not occur at the same time as the reported baptism of the holy spirit.

No it did not. However I never was in the belief that these things were still availables nor was I able to operate in the other gifts of the Spirit.

 

[Dan_473]

In Christ, we all are empowered.

putting this together with post 85

The “baptism of the Spirit” refers to being equipped or empowered by God’s Spirit to carry out the task that Jesus has given the church.

then we are all baptized by the holy spirit.

 

[Dan_473]

Not every time, but often, they do.


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ok... so, what leads you to believe that you were baptized by the holy spirit at age 19 or 20, some time after having been born again?

I'm thinking it would be an intense feeling, then?

 

[un2him]

First nobody is denying the angelic as well as human, but the angelic is clearly shown by Paul that this is only done in prayer......

Second again what are you going by to tie the gift of tongues and the gift of prophecy together ???

Every single prophet mentioned in the OT spoke in the language of their area, they did not give prophecies in some unknown language.

The only time the OT spoke of a prophecy needing to be interpreted, it was an angel sent from God that personally interpreted it to the prophet who in turn gave what he was told to the others.

There was no human interpreter involved in prophecy !!!


Apostle Paul also said that he wished all would speak in tongues, showing not all will, but then went on and said he wishes we would all prophecy instead. That alone shows one who does prophecy does not have to speak in tongues as well to understand !!!

hmm were not the dreams Joesph interpeted prophecy? God used a man there to interpet and the thing was even plain english needs be interpeted at times no matter what form tounges takes.

 

[Dan_473]

The blessing would have been a strong answer from God for the prayer spoken in tongues...

an interesting possibility... that tongues prayers receive better answers than english prayers.

in my experience, I can't see a significant difference.

 

[Dan_473]

Men can persecute us, but the devil can't get near people who are speaking in tongues or just in prayer, period! He is confounded and powerless.

in my experience, many pentecostal churches spend a lot of time talking about and binding satan.

in a megachurch we attended, one song started out, "satan, the blood of Jesus is against you."

while I agree with the sentiment, my wife pointed out that they're actually singing a song to satan.

 

[Dan_473]

I am talking about how people claim that the devil can get in there and distort the gift when the people of God are employing them.

I think believers can be influenced by satan, 'specially if you don't get that full armor put on good.

I think any gift can be mis-used, so a believer prompted to do evil could mis-use a gift.

 

[Dan_473]

However, a Christian who is Spirit-filled and walking in the Spirit and is employing the wisdom of God can easily detect the wiles of the devil.

I agree with that! I think how we know we are walking in the spirit is when we see the fruits of the spirit blossoming in our lives.

 

[KennethC]

hmm were not the dreams Joesph interpeted prophecy? God used a man there to interpet and the thing was even plain english needs be interpeted at times no matter what form tounges takes.

Again you show exactly what I was saying the prophecy was given in a dream, not tongues........

If God shows you a prophecy with a random bunch of different pictures you would ask to what do these mean, that does not mean tongues was used. Just like the book of Revelation, there is a lot of symbolism used in this book that we do not know what they stand for yet. This does not mean it can't be read because it is written in some unknown language, no it is written in multiple known languages for all to read.

 

[Dan_473]

Dan 473 Any spiritual gift can be beneficial or hurtful? A paradox, indeed!

First of all, if that gift is from GOD, it will always be beneficial, even if we don't physically see the immediate result. And, only to those who refuse or ignore a gift can it be hurtful, due to their choice of not accepting it. To those who refuse CHRIST, of course their eternity is going to be hurtful. CHRIST is THE spiritual gift to all. IT is because of Him, we can have and utilize those 9 gifts listed in Corinthians. Without CHRIST, those gifts are useless because there is NO spiritual goal to be claimed.

I think we have the ability to judge prophecies... if the gift of prophecy is subject to judgement or critiqueing, then I think all the other gifts are as well.

 

[Dan_473]

No it did not. However I never was in the belief that these things were still availables nor was I able to operate in the other gifts of the Spirit.

right, and a question is how one knows when the baptism occured.

is it a strong feeling or emotional experience? I had one of those when I was nine years old, and the people around me said I spoke in tongues and was baptized by the holy spirit at that time.

I have also had strong emotional experiences before and after that... feelings of being overwhelmed by God, being engulfed in his presence... total surrender... feeling spiritually "super-charged"...

 

[skylove7]

Please forgive me good people

I am un wise in scripture.....
yet abundant in heart!


I was a blessed little girl. ...in a evil world!
Hallelujah!

 

[un2him]

right, and a question is how one knows when the baptism occured.

is it a strong feeling or emotional experience? I had one of those when I was nine years old, and the people around me said I spoke in tongues and was baptized by the holy spirit at that time.

I have also had strong emotional experiences before and after that... feelings of being overwhelmed by God, being engulfed in his presence... total surrender... feeling spiritually "super-charged"...

True it can be any of those things and all. It was the peace of God with great joy and I began hearing God in ways I never heard....dreams, words of kowledge about things in my life and others, visions, and words of encouragement form Him, a passage would come to me and He would teaach me about it, I would know what the message was going to be about on Sunday morning and from what passage I could go on and tell you just how Great our Lod is and I am sure others here have experianced these simular things and even great ones.

 

[Dan_473]

True it can be any of those things and all. It was the peace of God with great joy and I began hearing God in ways I never heard....dreams, words of kowledge about things in my life and others, visions, and words of encouragement form Him, a passage would come to me and He would teaach me about it, I would know what the message was going to be about on Sunday morning and from what passage I could go on and tell you just how Great our Lod is and I am sure others here have experianced these simular things and even great ones.

yes, certainly! though, if a strong God-experience is that baptism of the holy spirit, then I must have been baptized many times.


for myself, I prefer to go with the idea that by one spirit we are all baptized into one body.

once we have entered the body, we can have strong experiences and start using gifts.

 

[blondieindahouse]

The spirit of God is not in the "churches" where the imitation is present. It is another spirit. I would think anyone with some common sense would gather that to be a given. I havent ever been in a church where it is authentic. Its always been out of order according to the word. I wonder how many are walking around thinking they have something from God when in actuality, it is the adversaries imitation. It has increased and it continues to increase.

 

[un2him]

yes, certainly! though, if a strong God-experience is that baptism of the holy spirit, then I must have been baptized many times.


for myself, I prefer to go with the idea that by one spirit we are all baptized into one body.

once we have entered the body, we can have strong experiences and start using gifts.

I agree with you about once we have entered the body we can have great experiences for me the gifts were not in operation until what I experienced and with lack of better words Batism of Fire ad rushing waters.

 

[blondieindahouse]

I agree with that! I think how we know we are walking in the spirit is when we see the fruits of the spirit blossoming in our lives.

Testing the spirits. We can see what spirit is speaking if we have discernment. Vipers come out from hiding.............