The neo-Gnostic spirit of New.Modern.Hyper Grace

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M

Mitspa

Guest
#941
#941
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Yes we were sanctified when born from above, but we must keep ourselves holy in the midst of a fallen world. So sanctification is not a process of making ourselves better or more holy, but of separating from evil and keeping ourselves undefiled. If you believe that a person's sanctification can't become defiled to such an extent that salvation is imperiled, then you are no different than the gnostics who believed the same thing.
Pursue peace with everyone, and holiness without which no one will see the Lord. Hebrews 12:14​
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Is holiness a fruit of the spirit? Is there any holiness in the flesh of man or mans efforts in the flesh?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#942
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#942
Mitspa said:
If you see someone teaching something contrary to sound doctrine? Defeat them in the scriptures but attacking the grace of God in such a general way because you cant make a biblical defense of your position is just error upon error.
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I don't think you're keeping up. I do that all of the time.
 
S

sydlit

Guest
#943
#943
Copied from #934 to be concise.....
Do I really need to name that many ???
●(Naming a few would help)●
Because in the 80's the teachings of churches telling their congregations they can live and do whatever they wanted got bad around the U.S.
●(Who told their congregations this? Do they still do it?)●
Again they do not say it in those exact words "that it is fine to go and sin" but stating behavior, how we walk, and what we do doesn't matter is saying the same thing.
●(So who's saying that in these non-exact words?)●
Failing to teach the warnings to believers from the bible is also a bad form of teaching, because that also leads to thinking no matter what they do there is no warning against it.
●(Where do you go to church? I've visited a few, and have never heard this teaching that leads to this thinking, but I'm always up for a fun visit.)●:cool:
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#944
#944
As far as the holiness that is imputed to us with the blood and body of Christ...that is a one time eternal act...as the scriptures teach.
Our walking in the Spirit will manifest a holiness of the Spirit.

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#945
#945
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
I don't think you're keeping up. I do that all of the time.
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I have not been in the great law and grace debate as of late ...what im seeing on this thread is not a real biblical discussion by just a generalized attack upon the grace of God.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#946
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#946
Mitspa said:
I have not been in the great law and grace debate as of late ...what im seeing on this thread is not a real biblical discussion by just a generalized attack upon the grace of God.
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Yeah this thread got out of control fast. But that's OK. If you look at my prior posts in other threads you'll see that I usually provide scripture to support what I say.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#947
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#947
Mitspa said:
As far as the holiness that is imputed to us with the blood and body of Christ...that is a one time eternal act...as the scriptures teach.
Our walking in the Spirit will manifest a holiness of the Spirit.

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
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But holiness can become defiled. The old covenant clearly teaches that. Cleansing is required when that happens.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#948
#948
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
But holiness can become defiled. The old covenant clearly teaches that. Cleansing is required when that happens.
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If holiness is based on the blood and body of Christ and the Spirit of God...then true holiness cannot be defiled ...what can happen is a believer who has the spirit of God can defile the temple of God through sexual sins etc...

And "holiness" under the old Covenant is based on the flesh...not the Spirit of God
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#949
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#949
Mitspa said:
If holiness is based on the blood and body of Christ and the Spirit of God...then true holiness cannot be defiled ...what can happen is a believer who has the spirit of God can defile the temple of God through sexual sins etc...

And "holiness" under the old Covenant is based on the flesh...not the Spirit of God
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A technical detail. We are made holy by the spirit. If we defile the vessel, the defilement must be cleansed. Everything in the old covenant is a shadow of realities in the new covenant.
 
S

sydlit

Guest
#950
#950
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
A technical detail. We are made holy by the spirit. If we defile the vessel, the defilement must be cleansed. Everything in the old covenant is a shadow of realities in the new covenant.
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How is it cleansed?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#952
#952
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
A technical detail. We are made holy by the spirit. If we defile the vessel, the defilement must be cleansed. Everything in the old covenant is a shadow of realities in the new covenant.
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No the Old Testament based holiness on the flesh..The New Testament bases holiness upon life in the Spirit ....Completely different! and we don't see Paul teaching those he rebuked for defiling of the temple, teaching some form of cleansing but to repent in the fear of God and to stop unless God destroys their body. Even in this we don't see Paul unsave anyone but warn them that if they continue in the lust of the flesh that they will suffer in the flesh.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#953
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#953
Did you get those names yet?..it would be a good thing to know because if those churches are saying what is being accused of them..we need to know so we can go and have a talk with them...

Willie-T said:
Well then, how about you quit laying it out here like it is such a prevalent thing? We get a little sick of the accusations.

As you know, I am in KC quite often. So, how about specifically posting the names and locations of these churches you are talking about that tell their members it is fine to go sin. I WILL visit them and ask the leaders about this teaching.
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Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#954
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#954
Grace777x70 said:
Did you get those names yet?..it would be a good thing to know because if those churches are saying what is being accused of them..we need to know so we can go and have a talk with them...
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I doubt they will be forthcoming. Because I suspect those visits never happened, and that all we are hearing is what someone told somebody else who heard it from yet another person.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#955
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#955
gotcha!..is it called the evils of hyper-grace grapevine?...all those lawless ones that are continually acting up!!!

Willie-T said:
I doubt they will be forthcoming. Because I suspect those visits never happened, and that all we are hearing is what someone told somebody else who heard it from yet another person.
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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#956
Jul 3, 2015
60,334
29,581
113
#956
Mitspa said:
No the Old Testament based holiness on the flesh...
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What does Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
Romans 4:3

 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#957
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#957
Mitspa said:
No the Old Testament based holiness on the flesh..The New Testament bases holiness upon life in the Spirit ....Completely different! and we don't see Paul teaching those he rebuked for defiling of the temple, teaching some form of cleansing but to repent in the fear of God and to stop unless God destroys their body. Even in this we don't see Paul unsave anyone but warn them that if they continue in the lust of the flesh that they will suffer in the flesh.
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The idea that a 'saved' person can't be 'unsaved' even if they practice sin is gnostic.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#958
#958
Grace777x70 said:
Did you get those names yet?..it would be a good thing to know because if those churches are saying what is being accused of them..we need to know so we can go and have a talk with them...
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Being demanding is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit, and what gives you the right to deal with anothers faults when you won't even deal with yours ???



Willie-T said:
I doubt they will be forthcoming. Because I suspect those visits never happened, and that all we are hearing is what someone told somebody else who heard it from yet another person.
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First of all making false allegations from a demanding mindset is the next step in the deflecting tactic..........

I grew up in a Baptist church for 12 years that taught exactly what I said that you deny happens, I don't know if the teach the same way still as I left them over 20 years ago.

But all they taught at Mt. Washington Baptist was Christ came in the flesh, died on the cross for our sins, and rose on the third day. Believe in that and you are saved go on and continue living your lives as you are as how you walk doesn't matter.

I believed that crap for many years tell I hit rock bottom and started reading and studying the scriptures for myself and saw how that is not true. What they taught was part of the message of Christ mixed with lies, and this was common throughout the 80's and was fought by the big "Wake Up Call".

I am surprised you have never heard of this as this was well known and heard all over the U.S. !!!

Again you are demanding things instead of just admitting this false teaching exists, the bible said this apostasy will happen in the last days and it is !!!
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#959
#959
Mitspa said:
If holiness is based on the blood and body of Christ and the Spirit of God...then true holiness cannot be defiled ...what can happen is a believer who has the spirit of God can defile the temple of God through sexual sins etc...

And "holiness" under the old Covenant is based on the flesh...not the Spirit of God
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Well and what does Paul say about the one who defiles the temple of God ???

Paul said God will destroy them, not give them eternal life !!!
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#960
#960
KennethC said:
Being demanding is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit, and what gives you the right to deal with anothers faults when you won't even deal with yours ???






First of all making false allegations from a demanding mindset is the next step in the deflecting tactic..........

I grew up in a Baptist church for 12 years that taught exactly what I said that you deny happens, I don't know if the teach the same way still as I left them over 20 years ago.

But all they taught at Mt. Washington Baptist was Christ came in the flesh, died on the cross for our sins, and rose on the third day. Believe in that and you are saved go on and continue living your lives as you are as how you walk doesn't matter.

I believed that crap for many years tell I hit rock bottom and started reading and studying the scriptures for myself and saw how that is not true. What they taught was part of the message of Christ mixed with lies, and this was common throughout the 80's and was fought by the big "Wake Up Call".

I am surprised you have never heard of this as this was well known and heard all over the U.S. !!!

Again you are demanding things instead of just admitting this false teaching exists, the bible said this apostasy will happen in the last days and it is !!!
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You know how Crazy it sounds to say that a person who wants to give all the glory to Christ, and It is in the person Of the Lord Jesus Christ ALONE that has the power to save, and ALL credit goes to Him in the salvation of a man is in apostasy?

I am confident I am on the right side. Call me apostate all you want.

Even the Holy Spirit came to Glorify the Lord Jesus Christ and not Himself. And in this day and age all we get is creature credit, the Spirit Before The Lord Jesus Christ and The lord Jesus Christ just in the mix somewhere.

Yeah, I am confident I am on the right side.
 
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