The neo-Gnostic spirit of New.Modern.Hyper Grace

Willie-T · Jan 18, 2016

Here, you have just said you are mainly reciting what you remember being told from the age of 7, until you were 19... and all that happened 20 years ago, at the most recent occurance.

I asked about these various churches you said you visited that all preached that we can do anything we want, and it is fine.

Now, this is just me, but in five years, I have only visited a few churches other than my own, and although I am a fairly attentive listener, I couldn't possibly tell much, at all, about what they "teach" as a matter of course at those churches from the 40 to 50 minutes I spent sitting in each one of them, listening to one sermon.

But you were able to ascertain this specific information from each one of these churches... and they all happened to teach on the same thing on the particular days you visited. Wow! Amazing.

BenFTW · Jan 18, 2016

Magenta said:

The only type of righteousness God accepts is a righteousness that is by faith (ever). It happened in the old testament as you showed by scripture about Abraham and it happens in the new. Never has a man been saved by his own deed, only by faith. It is true his deeds confirm his faith, but his faith is what saved him.

Mitspa is correct though, Magenta, in that righteousness was sought by the flesh.

Romans 10:3King James Version (KJV)

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

and

Philippians 3:9King James Version (KJV)

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

blondieindahouse · Jan 18, 2016

Willie-T said:

That statement you made:
I think hyper gracers have this false sense of grace. I recognize it in who they defend( said "teachers") . There is such a thing as perverting the message of grace. Its called WOF. I dont think a mature christian would stay in error.Actually Gods word tells us we will continue to grow being continually renewed .

We may stumble into it for a season but we certainly dont stay there. JP and his buddy JO are two really good examples.
God has been intervening. He has put those who "see" in the path of those who do not. It boggles my mind that people cant see a charlaton for who he/she is. They not only pervert grace but they distort alot of other scripture as well. I have spoken my mind on this before and I have posted proof. What I havent done is do a run down of the many false teachers that use rhetoric like "little gods" and "jesus wasnt the only begotten son" and others. Maybe I will get around to it. But its out there so its not hard to research it out.

Magenta · Jan 18, 2016

BenFTW said:

That is not what I responded to, why do you change it?

No the Old Testament based holiness on the flesh...

oldthennew · Jan 18, 2016

MAL. 4:2. - But unto you that fear My name shall the Son of righteousness arise with healing in His wings;
and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

MATT. 5:6. - Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

BenFTW · Jan 18, 2016

Magenta said:

Holiness and righteousness are being used interchangeably. Sorry, wasn't trying to paint anything false.

Grace777x70 · Jan 18, 2016

Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 8:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 9:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Romans 10:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 14:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the kingdom of God ( Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you..He might know a thing or two ) is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Galatians 2:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Ephesians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

Ephesians 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Willie-T · Jan 18, 2016

Willie-T said:

blondieindahouse said:

Are you saying you don't believe God steps in and keeps us from messing up a lot of things? (Not our "righteous works" done through some power we now wield?) I spoke of how I see God's grace in my life. Why are you trying to grind your ax about the preachers you don't like when they weren't even mentioned and have nothing to do with this?

sydlit · Jan 18, 2016

KennethC said:

Being demanding is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit, andwhat gives you the right to deal with anothers faults when you won't even deal with yours ???

First of all making false allegations from a demanding mindset is the next step in the deflecting tactic..........

I grew up in a Baptist church for 12 years that taught exactly what I said that you deny happens, I don't know if the teach the same way still as I left them over 20 years ago.

But all they taught at Mt. Washington Baptist was Christ came in the flesh, died on the cross for our sins, and rose on the third day. Believe in that and you are saved go on and continue living your lives as you are as how you walk doesn't matter.

I believed that crap for many years tell I hit rock bottom and started reading and studying the scriptures for myself and saw how that is not true. What they taught was part of the message of Christ mixed with lies, and this was common throughout the 80's and was fought by the big "Wake Up Call".

I am surprised you have never heard of this as this was well known and heard all over the U.S. !!!

Again you are demanding things instead of just admitting this false teaching exists, the bible said this apostasy will happen in the last days and it is !!!

and what gives you the right to deal with anothers faults when you won't even deal with yours ???

Grace777x70 · Jan 18, 2016

Doing righteous deeds by themselves does not make one righteous. This is having the cart before the horse.

Doing righteous deeds because Christ has made us righteous is what 1 John chapter 3 is talking about. This shows the difference between the devil and those that belong to Christ. John was describing a believer and an unbeliever.

I know there have been "good" people doing "righteous deeds " but they were not belonging to God. Many religions have moral living people in them - all doing "righteous deeds".

Here is how righteousness comes to a believer....we need to be righteousness conscious...not sin-conscious...we have a new creation in Christ now! This "righteousness " will manifest outwardly in doing righteous deeds - but we need the "horse" in front first.

The "horse" being Christ's righteousness in us because of our being in Christ in our inner man..our new creation in Christ.
Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness..when you see who you are in Him in your new man..you become like Him outwardly.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells..

Magenta · Jan 18, 2016

BenFTW said:

I understand that. What you changed was the "based on" as opposed to sought by the flesh. They may have sought holiness that way, I did not dispute that at all because that is not what was said. Holiness/righteousness was always based on faith in God.

blondieindahouse · Jan 18, 2016

Willie-T said:

Well, Im just being truthful. I like your colorful additive though

I gave an example of perverted grace. The reason I injected my thoughts there is because the perverted grace message leads to perverted actions in those who follow charlatans. I thought you would be able to connect the dots. Sorry, I should never assume should I?

BenFTW · Jan 18, 2016

blondieindahouse said:

Speaking of assumptions, what was that part about the grace message leading to perverted actions?

oldthennew · Jan 18, 2016

sydlit said:

========================================

wow, this is an amazing statement....one that we all wrestle with when we are trying to
understand just what another is trying to convey or state....looking at 'ourselves' and fessing-up is truly a 'sign'
that we are on the 'right road'....I say this because, when we are able to understand and claim our
'old behavior' and compare it with our 'new-changing-behaviour', then we have a solidness, a true ground
that will catapult us into a new demention that can only be described as Holy.....

Gr8grace · Jan 18, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

I believe the majority of believers that are successful in the Christian way of life, and are practicing TRUE righteousness............are invisible or secret hero's to todays fruit inspectors.

Its the husband who didn't love his wife as Christ loves the church and made the switch at some point and loves his wife as Christ loves the church......divine good, but hidden from us all.

Its the wife who respects her husband even when He doesn't deserve it because she is following the biblical principle of respecting his responsibility in the family.

Its the family who is raising their Children under the authority of biblical principles.

Its the person who studies his word even when they don't feel like it.

Willie-T · Jan 18, 2016

BenFTW said:

Hey..... THAT assumption was an "assumed fact", so that makes it ok. I mean, just look at the pervert Paul turned out to be...... and all from preaching that Grace Message.

Willie-T · Jan 18, 2016

Gr8grace said:

I believe the majority of believers that are successful in the Christian way of life, and are practicing TRUE righteousness............are invisible or secret hero's to todays fruit inspectors.

Its the husband who didn't love his wife as Christ loves the church and made the switch at some point and loves his wife as Christ loves the church......divine good, but hidden from us all.

Its the wife who respects her husband even when He doesn't deserve it because she is following the biblical principle of respecting his responsibility in the family.

Its the family who is raising their Children under the authority of biblical principles.

Its the person who studies his word even when they don't feel like it.

You mean people receiving and showing other people GRACE?

Grace777x70 · Jan 18, 2016

Well Paul was accused of saying that people can go out and sin all the want because of grace...why would they even make such a statement?..I wonder what he said that solicited such things to be said?.

.it's in the gospel..the true gospel of the grace of Christ is an offense to the D.I.Y. self-righteous/holiness mindset...that's the "way of the flesh"...

Willie-T said:

sydlit · Jan 18, 2016

andwhat gives you the right to deal with anothers faults when you won't even deal with yours ???

oldthennew said:

To be clear...This was not initially my statement, I was merely re-quoting what the poster said earlier IN THE SAME POST. i.e. to apply his own advice in his own mirror.
Of course, self-examination, or better, allowing ourselves to be examined by God, in the light of a desire to grow in Christ, can be a good thing.

Btw, dimension? or dementian? Lol

blondieindahouse · Jan 18, 2016

BenFTW said:

Respectfully,I was speaking to willie not you

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