The Deceitfulness of New.Modern.Hyper Grace
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I'm not angry. I'm trying to make a point.
If you are living by the standard you are preaching, then by 1 John, you are not a believer. He said, and I cannot emphasize this enough, believers do not sin. You are attempting to toss a little sin into the mix, because you know you cannot live without committing sin. But a single sin condemns you.
You are attempting to have your cake and eat it to. God's word does not allow that.
The Bible says that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Since Jesus will not go back to the cross to shed more blood for your present, and future sins - then you have no forgiveness.
Either the blood was enough to cover all of your transgressions, or it was not.
You've got to stop playing this game with God. Your works are "filthy rags" to Him because you are attempting to stay in His favor based upon your performance.
Your just being head strong and rebellious toward the Truth. If you have a new nature in Christ then your works will be righteous because He who is in you is righteous, if they are not then perhaps you never were born again, or you have fallen back unto perdition. So yes, what you do does matter because unrighteousness shall not inherit the kingdom of God. The works you do either proves that you are truly "in Christ" or that you are truly of your father the Devil.
Wrong. CHRIST'S works would be righteous! Which they are. Which is the basis of our own sinlessness. His holiness is imputed to us. I cannot make it any clearer. It's the very reason we can be declared righteous and still sin in our flesh.
And once again, Mr Wiggly, if your works prove whether or not you are a believer, then 1 John condemns you as an unbeliever.
And once again, Mr Wiggly, if your works prove whether or not you are a believer, then 1 John condemns you as an unbeliever.
PAUL was clear...when he went to do good he found a law...that sin was present with him....so....I know that where sin abounds..grace did much more abound....that does not mean we will not ever sin....and Jesus and John both taught..be repenting for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand.....present active indicatve form of the verb...be repenting.....
But if we abide in Him, we don't sin...this word abide, to me it means: to trust in Him for everything - provision, salvation, sanctification, growth in fruit and the virtues, temporal matters...just everything.
It means to trust what He has said so fully that I don't even care that everyone around me thinks I am an idiot when I don't store up money in the idol named IRA. You know, when the economy crashed and so many seniors had to go back to work because their idols failed them, the government stepped in with what was called a "bailout." Bail\baal...astounding....and they nailed that idol back up in place so it could keep them safe once again.
But one puff from God will topple it again. What kind of safety is there in an idol you have to rescue in order for it to keep you safe in retirement??!
Uh...I'm just rambling and don't know how it happened. Sorry.
It means to trust what He has said so fully that I don't even care that everyone around me thinks I am an idiot when I don't store up money in the idol named IRA. You know, when the economy crashed and so many seniors had to go back to work because their idols failed them, the government stepped in with what was called a "bailout." Bail\baal...astounding....and they nailed that idol back up in place so it could keep them safe once again.
But one puff from God will topple it again. What kind of safety is there in an idol you have to rescue in order for it to keep you safe in retirement??!
Uh...I'm just rambling and don't know how it happened. Sorry.
You are assuming I am living in unrepentant sin, but that is just your accusation which is not based on any proof, just your false assumptions. Also the blood of Christ speaks, and is Living inside the believer ever washing and purging to bring to perfection. So Jesus does not have to go back to the cross for me, as I have His testimony(blood) inside of me keeping me on the path of righteousness.
Here is a post about how the blood of Christ washes our insides...http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/123667-washed-water-blood-word.html
Here is a post about how the blood of Christ washes our insides...http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/123667-washed-water-blood-word.html
So the question is two fold.
Jesus at the day of judgement is saying, you evil doers I never knew you. Now this is a group of people who justify themselves based on spiritual works ie miracles, casting out demons and Jesus says He does not know them.
Jesus is saying how you are inside, what you do and why matters.
John is saying walking with Christ means you walk in righteousness, and even if you stumble he is there to pick you up. The basis is in the goal the walk. Now how far and when in sanctification terms we obtain this walk, we do not know, but John is declaring we can expect it.
Hyper-grace is claiming this is impossible. So the view is you never need to walk like this, it is only Jesus and His righteousness that John is talking about. But that is just insane and meaningless. It is stripping out all the meaning of 1 John.
Either you accept walking in maturity in Christ is walking in the light, walking without sin. Now walking without sin means all sin to date is dealt with, you are cleansed and you walk without sin in the Lord. Have you ever ridden a bike. When you can ride well you do not expect to fall off, but it happens. Johns language is saying you can ride the bike and as a christian should be able to ride righteousness well. It is that simple. If you cannot ride well, you do not know the Lord.
This is not an idealised view that there is no risk you will not sin. As Jesus says in the Lords prayer,
"Lead us not into temptation"
It is all that simple and not even close to the extremes put forward by some here.
Failure is the enemies work to steal our inheritence in walking with Jesus.
Jesus at the day of judgement is saying, you evil doers I never knew you. Now this is a group of people who justify themselves based on spiritual works ie miracles, casting out demons and Jesus says He does not know them.
Jesus is saying how you are inside, what you do and why matters.
John is saying walking with Christ means you walk in righteousness, and even if you stumble he is there to pick you up. The basis is in the goal the walk. Now how far and when in sanctification terms we obtain this walk, we do not know, but John is declaring we can expect it.
Hyper-grace is claiming this is impossible. So the view is you never need to walk like this, it is only Jesus and His righteousness that John is talking about. But that is just insane and meaningless. It is stripping out all the meaning of 1 John.
Either you accept walking in maturity in Christ is walking in the light, walking without sin. Now walking without sin means all sin to date is dealt with, you are cleansed and you walk without sin in the Lord. Have you ever ridden a bike. When you can ride well you do not expect to fall off, but it happens. Johns language is saying you can ride the bike and as a christian should be able to ride righteousness well. It is that simple. If you cannot ride well, you do not know the Lord.
This is not an idealised view that there is no risk you will not sin. As Jesus says in the Lords prayer,
"Lead us not into temptation"
It is all that simple and not even close to the extremes put forward by some here.
Failure is the enemies work to steal our inheritence in walking with Jesus.
Wow, you jokers are confused! So His holiness is imputed to you, but it does not show in your actions? Hmmmm You say it is the basis for your own sinlessness, and the reason you are declared righteous, even though you are still sinning in the flesh. LOL!
Talk about a contradiction and a case of confused identity. Good luck with that Bud.
Talk about a contradiction and a case of confused identity. Good luck with that Bud.
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Matt 7:22-23
When I was young I wondered who on earth this verse ever referred to. Since then I have met many circus performers who are liars, frauds, empty people driven by greed who claim the miraculous but do not know Jesus. Now if even I can spot this reality yet Jesus will not, that is stupid. Yet I hear people say it is the pharisees or legalists this is referring to.
And the people who deny the reality of these verses are the same ones who deny walking in righteousness matters and calls the righteous evil because they claim it is righteousness done for self justification and not as a fruit of faith.
I would say it is obvious those who deny they can walk as true followers of Christ wish to slam the door for everyone else and claim the crown for themselves, rather than repenting and humbling themselves.
Matt 7:22-23
When I was young I wondered who on earth this verse ever referred to. Since then I have met many circus performers who are liars, frauds, empty people driven by greed who claim the miraculous but do not know Jesus. Now if even I can spot this reality yet Jesus will not, that is stupid. Yet I hear people say it is the pharisees or legalists this is referring to.
And the people who deny the reality of these verses are the same ones who deny walking in righteousness matters and calls the righteous evil because they claim it is righteousness done for self justification and not as a fruit of faith.
I would say it is obvious those who deny they can walk as true followers of Christ wish to slam the door for everyone else and claim the crown for themselves, rather than repenting and humbling themselves.