To Test,
This post is in response with civility in mind and since tithe cannot save us.
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Test_F_i_2_Luv: Abram gave Melchizedek a
single one time tithe(
not plural "tithes") on
war spoils(Gen 14:20), not on earnings. He came to the aid of his Nephew Lot, who had gotten himself into trouble(Gen 14:12).
War spoils from saving his nephew and wages/earnings from a job are two different things. This is a comparison of apples and oranges.
fredoheaven: The issue seems not to determine what was given (spoils or savings, wages or earnings) but the performance of giving. The principle sounds like, Am I really giving the tenth or not?
Test_F_i_2_Luv: The original issue, as asked by the Wesil when he started the thread, is whether or not we are required to give 10%(a tithe) of our income to God. Wesil stated that he has been doing so. He also state that he had heard in a sermon recently that tithing was O.T. and not a N.T. requirement.
Your comment/question potentially expands the principle of giving. Not only would one be giving on earnings/wages/salary, but potentially on assets, gifts, inheritance, etc. The question becomes: are you giving 10% on
everything?
Abram's tithe to Melchizedek has nothing to do with the current day teachings on giving. Abram gave on war spoils, not on earnings/salary/wages. He recovered what was lost in war. The text is irrelevant to tithing on income because it had nothing to do with an occupation/job/profession.
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Fredoheaven : Okay,what am I concerned was “the tenth” of Abram given; the percentage or the rate which is 10% that gets interest me which is thus far in line with original issue. It is “the tenth” more than what the item or the product.
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Test_F_i_2_Luv: If people are really going to use Abram as an example, though, they should keep in mind that Abram actually didn't keep
anything for himself. If one reads a little farther in the chapter(Gen 14:23), this is clearly stated. If tithing proponents are going to use Abram as an example,
then they shouldn't be keeping anything for themselves.
fredoheaven: After the tenth (10% of the spoils), there remains 90% of the spoils yet the remainder which we don’t know what the partition was disributed among the King and the young men that ate, the portion of men which went with Abram, as well as Anel, Eschol and Mamre. In the New Testament the tenth(10%) so far was given more weight than the remains although the thought is that Abram given all. What I am keeping personally right now is the tenth plus more. In so far fredoheaven, cannot compare mine to Abraham but at least I am lining myself in the tenth which is scripturally taught. The tenth is the minimum or base fredoheaven is giving.
2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
Test_F_i_2_Luv: Abram's tithe on war spoils is a poor example. Yet, if we are going to use it for determining our giving, we can not deny that Abram kept
none of the spoils for himself.
As I read the passage about Abram's tithe, I see Abram putting
more emphasis on the 90%. Notice the discussion on the 10%(orange) and the discussion on the rest(red):
Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abram, saying,
“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Creator of heaven and earth.
And praise be to God Most High,
who delivered your enemies into your hand.”
Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
The king of Sodom said to Abram, “Give me the people and keep the goods for yourself.”
But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “With raised hand I have sworn an oath to the Lord, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth, that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the strap of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, ‘I made Abram rich.’ I will accept nothing but what my men have eaten and the share that belongs to the men who went with me—to Aner, Eshkol and Mamre. Let them have their share.” -Gen 14:18-24
Looking at this passage closer, it appears that the tither should get bread and wine before giving his/her tithe to the priest. Secondly, the 90% should go to a different individual.
2 Cor 10:12 is about boasting about one's work. 2 Cor 10:13 provides clarity.
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Fredoheaven: So far, if the book of Hebrews is concerned where the instances cited, the scriptures gave emphasis on the “the tenth”, whereas, there’s no longer mentioned neither of Aner, Eschol and Mamre’s share nor of the King of Sodom and that’s my point.
Hebrews 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
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Test_F_i_2_Luv: Since Abram is being used as an example, I'd be curious to know
if anyone can supply Biblical evidence of Abram paying a tithe on another occasion on actual earnings? In other words, is there evidence that Abram tithed on what he earned through his occupation/job/profession, or did he just pay the one war-time tithe on spoils?
fredoheaven: There’s no need for further evidence. “The just shall live by faith.” I just don't know if this still hold true, "When the bible is silent, we must be silent" otherwise it will be a mere speculation. God bless...
Test_F_i_2_Luv: The Bible isn't silent on tithing. In the O.T. there were at least 3 tithes paid by certain Israelites. There was a Levitical tithe, a Festival tithe, and a Poor tithe. The tithes add up to over 20%. In addition, Israelites gave firstfruits and offerings. We aren't under the O.T. law. Most of us aren't in the agriculture/livestock business.
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Fredoheaven: The “tenth” record was not set on what was earned on his job/ occupation. It seems that it would be best not to look for any further evidence when the Bible does not mention. Say for example, I have to presume that Abram did, obviously, some will say it is not found in the Bible, and I am just speculating it… but if you can provide me a verse then I would gladly believe it. But then again I just don’t know if have located that in the Bible. Similar to this situation is Jacob’s promised to tithe.
Be blessed…
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