Common Misconceptions Of Hyper-Grace
- Thread starter BenFTW
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
We were justified by Christ's death, we were sanctified by his spirit when we we born from above, and we are being sanctified by his life when we separate ourselves (or keep ourselves separate) from the defilements of the world and sin to abide in him. The separating of ourselves and keeping ourselves separate is our walk.
This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"
We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....however there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.
God sets apart ( sanctifies )our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. ( this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )
Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..= done deal
Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive )
Sanctification to our "religious minds" could mean a lot of different things to different people as it depends on the religious beliefs formulated from our backgrounds....like no doing the "biggie sins"...or even..no smoking..no drinking..no going to church..no reading your bible every day..no praying for an hour each day.....no going to a movie...reading a newspaper...no being a servant of God...the religious mindset says..no doing "what I don't do.."..
We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....however there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.
God sets apart ( sanctifies )our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. ( this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )
Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..= done deal
Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive )
Sanctification to our "religious minds" could mean a lot of different things to different people as it depends on the religious beliefs formulated from our backgrounds....like no doing the "biggie sins"...or even..no smoking..no drinking..no going to church..no reading your bible every day..no praying for an hour each day.....no going to a movie...reading a newspaper...no being a servant of God...the religious mindset says..no doing "what I don't do.."..
E
so we sanctify ourselves?
Thats not what God says.
Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
If your trying to sanctify yourself under your own power you will fail God has to give us the power to seperate, We can not do this of our own power.
Thats not what God says.
Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
If your trying to sanctify yourself under your own power you will fail God has to give us the power to seperate, We can not do this of our own power.
This is the other part that goes with our sanctification in our inner man..
It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is ion us. There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.
1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
This is the fruit of His life manifesting in us as we see who we are in Christ..we become like Him
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
are being transformed = passive = which means the action is being done to you - you are not doing it.
Holy living is a by-product of seeing the life of Christ in us because it is His fruit being manifested as we are in Him.
It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is ion us. There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.
1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
This is the fruit of His life manifesting in us as we see who we are in Christ..we become like Him
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
are being transformed = passive = which means the action is being done to you - you are not doing it.
Holy living is a by-product of seeing the life of Christ in us because it is His fruit being manifested as we are in Him.
Hyper-grace in this model has not described why there is a transformation. What needs transforming if you already have a perfect spirit that is who you are?
I would suggest that is why it all falls apart, because there is no way to separate your new "gifted" spirit from your mind, soul, and emotional history, so your behaviour is as bad as ever. To square this reality, the not perfect life, you then have to explain why this new "spirit" makes so little difference and how it becomes more influential.
I would suggest that is why it all falls apart, because there is no way to separate your new "gifted" spirit from your mind, soul, and emotional history, so your behaviour is as bad as ever. To square this reality, the not perfect life, you then have to explain why this new "spirit" makes so little difference and how it becomes more influential.
E
1. legalism fails because it fails to realize your true sinfulness. it seems religious, but it is dead.
2. Grace does not fail. Because it has repented of his sin, and realizes he still has to grow, because unlike the legalist, He does not hide behind religion, and think he is more righteous than he really is.. He has to continue to run the race.
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep oneself undefiled by the world. James 1:27
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 1 John 5:18
The mind. Our spirit indeed has become new and alive but we still have this mind of ours that needs renewal. As the saying goes "Old habits die hard." This is why identity in Christ is so important and an understanding of what it means that we have partook of Jesus' death and resurrection. All action is preceded by thought, yes? Even if its reactionary your mind had to send the signal. So if we renew our minds it will affect our actions.
Its like a thief does what? He steals. Its who he is. A liar does what? He lies. Its who he is. So who are you in Christ? Its your identity, so you should renew your mind to who God says you are so that your actions are in alignment.
Its like a thief does what? He steals. Its who he is. A liar does what? He lies. Its who he is. So who are you in Christ? Its your identity, so you should renew your mind to who God says you are so that your actions are in alignment.
Here is the scripture...it is God that keeps us...not ourselves..they always want to bring "works" into things....instead of trusting in Him alone and letting His life come forth in us..
1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins;but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins;but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
Last edited:
I had typed to get back on topic to address misconceptions but addressing people's questions about these misconceptions and the answers to them is all a part of the thread I suppose. So keep at it, but try your best to put it in context of addressing a misconception. "Oh yes, that is a perceived misconception of God's grace but actually..."
E
yeah they are.
If you have to do it yourself or suffer the consequences, Your trusting your own power.
If your trusting God to work through you. You are trusting God.
In the first one, you get all the glory, in the second example. God gets all the glory.
So again, Do you sanctify yourself Or is it like Paul said, And God sanctifies us..
There is a reason John said those born of God do not sin, And those who sin have never seen God or known him, Because it is God who changes us,
If you have to do it yourself or suffer the consequences, Your trusting your own power.
If your trusting God to work through you. You are trusting God.
In the first one, you get all the glory, in the second example. God gets all the glory.
So again, Do you sanctify yourself Or is it like Paul said, And God sanctifies us..
There is a reason John said those born of God do not sin, And those who sin have never seen God or known him, Because it is God who changes us,
Ok, I drive a car, so I am a driver. I cook food, so I am a cook. I follow Jesus so I am a Christian.
By saying I am something does not make me that thing. The concept behind this is command theology, you are a child of God so have creative authority, so speak it out.
Is this your idea? Your mind needs to learn it is now a powerful being, you just have to exercise this reality.
By saying I am something does not make me that thing. The concept behind this is command theology, you are a child of God so have creative authority, so speak it out.
Is this your idea? Your mind needs to learn it is now a powerful being, you just have to exercise this reality.
The issue is trying to naturalize a spiritual principle. You and I are not who we are based upon our actions but by grace and imputation. The actions confirm who we are but does not define us (entirely). Yes, you shall know them by their fruits but those fruits are an effect to the cause (cause and effect). Since we are in Christ we have been made new creations and because of this reality it affects our conduct. Our actions don't make us new creations but us being new creations affects our conduct through the renewal of the mind. As scripture says, "Awake to righteousness, and sin not."
PS: This isn't speaking of sinless perfectionism, but a matter of the degree to which sin controls your life. According to the word, and ought to be renewed into your mindset, is that sin doesn't have dominion over you under grace and you should reckon yourself dead to it.
PS: This isn't speaking of sinless perfectionism, but a matter of the degree to which sin controls your life. According to the word, and ought to be renewed into your mindset, is that sin doesn't have dominion over you under grace and you should reckon yourself dead to it.
K
You see though you are saying exactly the same thing that we are saying !!!
The problem arises when discussions come into play of what about those people who do not have these fruit/actions that reflect the faith in their life ???
Your doctrine says they are still in Christ, but the Word of God says they are not !!!
As for sin controlling our lives that is clearly stated in Christ that it has no such control over us, we overcome and have victory over sin.
This is done by walking in the fruit of the Spirit, which is why Apostle Paul said those who walk by this fruit there is no law. Because the fruit of the Spirit leads to obedience and self-control, not a continuous life of giving into sinful ways !!!
Sin has no dominion over us because we walk by the Spirit, and not by the flesh...........
Those who continue to walk by the flesh the bible says they are still bound under the law and enmity to God !!!
Here is a post from JGIG which looks at "Abiding in Christ"....
We abide in Christ the moment we are born into the family of God through Christ.
After you were born, and I'm assuming you weren't abandoned or orphaned as a child, what effort did you exert to remain a member of your family?
So it is when we abide in Christ. If you are in Christ, you are abiding in Christ.
REST. Now, rest, REST is a different matter. Hebrews tells us to strive to enter into His REST. A paradox, to be sure, but goes to show us that it's something that we have to purpose to do - to choose to rest in the Work of Christ and not strive in our own works - and out of that comes Fruit.
Stressed plants don't tend to bear great fruit. They may squeeze out a good piece here or there, but there is no consistency or harvests.
In Christ, we're promised life, and life in abundance. I don't believe that necessarily means health and wealth (though those are not bad things), but it does mean that there will be Fruit in our lives - love, joy, peace, patience, self-control, etc., and those things in the midst of our circumstances because in every one of life's circumstances, Christ promises to never leave or forsake us.
We can be born-again and abiding in Christ, yet not resting in the Truth of who we are in Him based on Who He is and what He's done - AND that He walks with us ALWAYS.
So abide AND rest . . . that's where Fruit happens!
-JGIG
We abide in Christ the moment we are born into the family of God through Christ.
After you were born, and I'm assuming you weren't abandoned or orphaned as a child, what effort did you exert to remain a member of your family?
So it is when we abide in Christ. If you are in Christ, you are abiding in Christ.
REST. Now, rest, REST is a different matter. Hebrews tells us to strive to enter into His REST. A paradox, to be sure, but goes to show us that it's something that we have to purpose to do - to choose to rest in the Work of Christ and not strive in our own works - and out of that comes Fruit.
Stressed plants don't tend to bear great fruit. They may squeeze out a good piece here or there, but there is no consistency or harvests.
In Christ, we're promised life, and life in abundance. I don't believe that necessarily means health and wealth (though those are not bad things), but it does mean that there will be Fruit in our lives - love, joy, peace, patience, self-control, etc., and those things in the midst of our circumstances because in every one of life's circumstances, Christ promises to never leave or forsake us.
We can be born-again and abiding in Christ, yet not resting in the Truth of who we are in Him based on Who He is and what He's done - AND that He walks with us ALWAYS.
So abide AND rest . . . that's where Fruit happens!
-JGIG