Pork

[Yeraza_Bats]

Im sure theres several threads on this subject already, but I wanna make one now in order to seek wisdom on the issue, as its my own problem now that Im seeking the right answer to.


But yeah, pork. Its something thats been bothering me lately. Ive been told in the past by those who reject Him that this "contradiction" disproves Him. And like, I know that in the Law man was commanded on what food they can eat and what food they cannot eat. I know that most Christians do not follow those laws though. I know that Christ told us He did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. And that whoever follows the law and teaches it will be called great in the kingdom of God (Matthew 5:17-19) . Its something thats been bothering me for a while, and Ive been praying on it often. I have not actually found anything in the bible myself where Christ tells us we can eat whatever foods we want now, or at least I have not come to understand His word here. I know of the story of Peter, when he was out in the desert, and he was commanded to eat lizards and birds, but said no, and was told not to call what God has made clean unclean. And that in Timothy 4:1-5 we are told that some would be deceived away from Him, and that all that God has created is good. And in Genesis 9:1-5 it seems like God tells Noah that he would eat from all the living creatures on the earth.

But even with that, we still have these verses. From Isaiah, a prophet who gave us much about the coming of Christ, we are told in 66:15-17 that those who eat pigs flesh shall come to an end together.

There are verses that say that the pig is unclean, then there are verses that say all that God has made is clean. I do not have the wisdom to understand this. Was the verse in Genesis 9 a prophecy that we would eat all the animals of the earth? Are there any prophecies or words from His prophets on this subject? Should I follow the words in Matthew 5, that Christ has come to fulfill the law, and that following it will be more pleasing to God? I would like anything in the word of God that you may know of to guide me in this problem of mine.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus is a pretty good authority on the matter.

There is nothing outside of a person that is able to defile him [by] going into him. But the things that go out of a person are the things that defile a person.”

And when he entered into the house away from the crowd, his disciples asked him about the parable.

And he said to them, “So are you also without understanding? Do you not understand that everything [that is] outside that goes into a person [is] not able to defile him? For it does not enter into his heart but into his stomach, and goes out into the latrine”—[thus] declaring all foods clean.

And he said, “What comes out of a person, that defiles a person. For from within, from the heart of people, come evil plans, sexual immoralities, thefts, murders, adulteries, [acts of] greed, malicious [deeds], deceit, licentiousness, envy, abusive speech, pride, foolishness. All these evil [things] come from within and defile a person.” Mark 7:15-23​

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

EDIT: Looking at Gods word myself, Peter wasnt even in the desert. He was on a rooftop Its just something I was recently reminded of from another follower of Christ, apparently got it wrong. Is why we should really streghten ourselves in His word : p

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Jesus is a pretty good authority on the matter.

There is nothing outside of a person that is able to defile him [by] going into him. But the things that go out of a person are the things that defile a person.”

And when he entered into the house away from the crowd, his disciples asked him about the parable.

And he said to them, “So are you also without understanding? Do you not understand that everything [that is] outside that goes into a person [is] not able to defile him? For it does not enter into his heart but into his stomach, and goes out into the latrine”—[thus] declaring all foods clean.

And he said, “What comes out of a person, that defiles a person. For from within, from the heart of people, come evil plans, sexual immoralities, thefts, murders, adulteries, [acts of] greed, malicious [deeds], deceit, licentiousness, envy, abusive speech, pride, foolishness. All these evil [things] come from within and defile a person.” Mark 7:15-23​

I was thinking about this story, and for some reason I remember Him ending this by restating that not washing your hands before eating does not defile a person. Could this be from another apostle, or another translation? Or am I totally mistaken here?


So do you think that Genesis 9 was a prophecy that we would eat all the living creatures of the earth? What about the laws on what we can and cannot eat, then? And does following those laws bring us closer to God? (Matthew 5:17-19)

 

[crossnote]

WB Bats

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. Let not then your good be evil spoken of: For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
(Rom 14:13-17)

I'll go with Paul on this one.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Personally I'm not a big fan of most pork products, not for anything religious, just not a fan of the taste. I'll eat it though, I do like bacon and bbq ribs. I'd wager almost anyone would eat just about anything if they were hungry enough. I'd say two big points on the pork stuff. Firstly even for those caught up in the kosher kraze, eating the unclean animals is not a death sentence, the proscribed levitical atonement is to wash and be unclean until the evening. This can be seen in the wider context of Jesus fulfilling the law and thereby making the unclean as clean as alluded to in Peter's vision about the Gentiles.

The second point, for me personally the first verse that comes to mind on diet habits is Colossians:

Colossians 2:16

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

All of Romans 14 is a pretty good chapter on the subject as well, but I'll just post two verses to consider:

Romans 14:2-3

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

 

[Magenta]

WB Bats

I second this sentiment. I have missed you, Yeraza Bats I hope you are well.

The law and the prophets are fulfilled in love, firstly love of God, and secondly, of others as ourselves.
Jesus fulfilled the law and stands in the stead of those who believe on Him.
Those who do not believe are judged and condemned by the law.
Thus the law stands, no jot or tittle removed.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

I second this sentiment. I have missed you, Yeraza Bats I hope you are well.

Oh, thank you : 3 And Im okay, sorta went through hard times but am trying to get closer to God, and am feeling more confident now : p


So, this is like the one argument I hear from Jewish people who have not yet accepted Him that I hear, Christ did not stick to the law because He didnt call unclean food unclean, therefore proving Hes a false prophet. How would you guys respond to that? Would bringing up the verse in Genesis 9 be a valid point to bring up?
(this isnt about me arguing with Jewish people btw, this is entirely about my faith and understanding in Him, I do not debate with Jewish people : p)

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Oh, thank you : 3 And Im okay, sorta went through hard times but am trying to get closer to God, and am feeling more confident now : p


So, this is like the one argument I hear from Jewish people who have not yet accepted Him that I hear, Christ did not stick to the law because He didnt call unclean food unclean, therefore proving Hes a false prophet. How would you guys respond to that? Would bringing up the verse in Genesis 9 be a valid point to bring up?
(this isnt about me arguing with Jewish people btw, this is entirely about my faith and understanding in Him, I do not debate with Jewish people : p)

Genesis 9 probably wouldn't work since that was a generalized covenant with the children of Noah and the levitical laws were specifically to the children of Israel so as to set them apart as distinct.

Really a good response be the response to Peter that a man cannot call unclean what God has made clean. Another good tangent, though moreso about the Sabbath, would be David eating the showbread which only the priests were allowed to eat.

Luke 6:1-4

1 And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands. [SUP]
2 [/SUP]And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?

 

[crossnote]

So, this is like the one argument I hear from Jewish people who have not yet accepted Him that I hear, Christ did not stick to the law because He didnt call unclean food unclean, therefore proving Hes a false prophet.

Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?
(Joh 8:46)

...crickets then...crickets now.

I think those Jews who witnessed Jesus' sayings and works were in a better position to determine if He had sinned.
Even at His trial they had to trump up some false charges.

 

[Magenta]

Oh, thank you : 3 And Im okay, sorta went through hard times but am trying to get closer to God, and am feeling more confident now : p


So, this is like the one argument I hear from Jewish people who have not yet accepted Him that I hear, Christ did not stick to the law because He didnt call unclean food unclean, therefore proving Hes a false prophet. How would you guys respond to that? Would bringing up the verse in Genesis 9 be a valid point to bring up?
(this isnt about me arguing with Jewish people btw, this is entirely about my faith and understanding in Him, I do not debate with Jewish people : p)

I am glad you are feeling better God is good!

Jesus kept trying to bring His people back to the underlying spiritual truths
contained in the law. The law and the prophets pointed forward to Him,
but they had added so much it had become a burden to most.

 

[phil36]

Hi Bats,

Are they refering to Mark 7:1-23?

 

[skylove7]

You know I do love God's animals

But c'mon now.....
Any group that protects sharks....
Is just....

Think how many killer sharks on beaches
Could be Fish Steaks for starving children!
Yesssss!

Animal lovers are cool!
But when they spend their time on animals over dying children....
Not cool!

My opinion is all

 

[Magenta]

YB, have you read John chapter 5 recently?

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?
(Joh 8:46)

...crickets then...crickets now.

I think those Jews who witnessed Jesus' sayings and works were in a better position to determine if He had sinned.
Even at His trial they had to trump up some false charges.

I'd agree with this but the kinda messed up thing is they didn't trump up false charges O_O.

Luke 22:70

[SUP]70 [/SUP]Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

 

[skylove7]

This thread title pork....
Noooo
Pork is not my choice
But
If pork feeds a starving child!

It's good with gravy lol
You know what I'm sayin?
Cool.to be healthy....
But starvin kids....
Yea
Jesus is ok with that!

 

[crossnote]

I'd agree with this but the kinda messed up thing is they didn't trump up false charges O_O.

Luke 22:70

[SUP]70 [/SUP]Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

And some stood up and bore false witness against him, saying, "We heard him say, 'I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands.'"
(Mar 14:57-58)

But that is another topic.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

And some stood up and bore false witness against him, saying, "We heard him say, 'I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands.'"
(Mar 14:57-58)

But that is another topic.

I'd think their false witness is they didn't understand. Indeed though, my apologies on digression. Another topic indeed.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Hi Bats,

Are they refering to Mark 7:1-23?

I dunno specifically, but its always about pork, yeah : p Like I said, I have next to no understanding on this issue : p
Id like to hear what you have to say, though.

YB, have you read John chapter 5 recently?

No, not since 2014 : p Most of my bible study this past year has come from teachers and stuff like that, I havent actually really looked at my own bible in a little over a year now, I think. Why, what does it say?

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

I'd think their false witness is they didn't understand. Indeed though, my apologies on digression. Another topic indeed.

They could have intentionally lied about what he said for the sake of charging Him, though.

(just wanted to add my 2 cents in there >.>)