Is This a Hyper-Grace Doctrine of Men FORUM?

[RickyZ]

Why... do the moderators keep allowing multiple threads on the Hyper-Grace doctrines of men here on this forum?

I thought multiple thread creation of the same thing was taboo on this forum? Why are there so many of one thing allowed?

Because the hyper-grace crowd is, well, a little hyper. Even after the works salvation crowd leaves a forum they keep right on arguing. That's why I wonder sometimes if they aren't trying to convince themselves.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Holiness is not through the law (flesh)...its through the Spirit ... and the defilement is of the temple ..or the body through fornication ...its not a defilement of the spirit.

1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

And the tongue [is] a fire! The world of unrighteousness, the tongue, is set among our members, defiling the whole body and setting on fire the course of human existence, being set on fire by hell. James 3:6

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your spirit and soul and body be kept complete, blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23​

 

[Grace777x70]

There are 2 aspects to grace...first our gracious Lord had to get rid of those religious zealots for the "law" before He could deal with her Himself.

1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you". It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.

2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace. Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now.


The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you." The grace of God speaks of better things!

Knowing that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!

Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.


What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based gospel have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part...this just drives them nuts...and I understand why..it is scandalous!

 

[BenFTW]

That again why it shows you have a misunderstanding because you want to place a death bed confession in the same light as one who comes to Christ and lives the next 20, 30, or even 50+ years for Christ.

You can not do that because if the person on the death bed would have lived instead, then their stance would be no different then the others. Also the death bed confession is an example of His mercy !!!

A person who continues to live can still choose to be obedient or not to His ways, and the word of God clearly shows that those who are continuously disobedient will be placed with the unbelievers.


I know you will bring up the Apostle Peter's disobedience, but again by doing so you would be in the wrong, because Apostle Peter's disobedience was not one of a continuous nature. He is more of the example of when one stumbles and needs to be corrected !!!

Eternal security only exists when one abides in Christ, outside of Christ (Faith in Him) there is no security !!!

Those who continue to live deliberate habitual sinful lives or those that return to this way of life are not or no longer abiding in Christ. Therefore they no longer have that security !!!


Again I will finish off that the bible speaks on earthly as well as eternal consequences, they are not all earthly as you think they are !!!

All salvation is an extension of His mercy through His Son. There is no other way to the Father and into heaven except through Jesus Christ. You, in the past, have said that a death bed confession is His mercy but you make it seem as if it is by the Lord's whim that this person is saved. No, this person is saved because Jesus, God's Son, died on the cross for him or her. This person is paid for, and they belong to Jesus. This is not God showing mercy through a random decision but is God's plan of reconciliation in motion not willing that any perish.

 

[KennethC]

A woman taken in the 'very act' of adultery was brought to Jesus.
No mention of confession or repentence before Jesus said to her,
'Neither do I condemn thee...'
Salvation, the gift of God's grace BY the God of all grace
standing there in the flesh. (Amazing!)
He THEN said to her, 'Go, and sin no more'.
Does anyone think she never sinned again the rest of her life?
Do you think Jesus cast her out,
or changed His mind about not condemning her
had she sinned again?
Is salvation a once for all forever gift of God's grace,
never to be taken away? It's either yes or no.
If yes, then praise the Lord,
if no, then what must we do to be saved?

Do you know that these people who brought her to the Lord was trying to catch Him to be against the Mosaic laws ???

By the Mosaic law if 2 to 3 witnesses came forward then the crime claimed was established as truth, and the punishment was just.

However Jesus turned the tables on them and said, "He who is without sin cast the first stone."

Jesus did not go against the law but instead said only one who was without sin was worthy on making this judgment on her, and because they felt convicted by what Jesus said they all walked away.

Jesus therefore said since nobody was left to condemn her (no witnesses) then He also would not condemn her !!!

We must take all examples into account and not just use one out of context, as Jesus said to the man who He healed at the pool, "Go and sin no more least a worse thing come on you."

Jesus told this man if he went and continued to sin worse things could happen, not that he was healed for the rest of His life !!!

 

[Jimbone]

My question first, so far it hasn't been answered. Does anyone think she never sinned again?

I don't, just like I don't think ANY of us can, even after salvation, but I DO think that salvation causes a HUGE change in us only possible by the power of the Holy Spirit indwelling us. The main point is that out of love, amazement, and total gratitude we will live a more obedient to His word, not out of fear or because we are under any law, but as a RESULT of our salvation and the power of His Spirit, and why He still gets ALL credit and glory for it. So I do think she left changed and did her best not to sin in love and gratitude. I definitely wouldn't use this verse to justify continuous sin at all, that's for sure.

 

[Mitspa]

Do you know that these people who brought her to the Lord was trying to catch Him to be against the Mosaic laws ???

By the Mosaic law if 2 to 3 witnesses came forward then the crime claimed was established as truth, and the punishment was just.

However Jesus turned the tables on them and said, "He who is without sin cast the first stone."

Jesus did not go against the law but instead said only one who was without sin was worthy on making this judgment on her, and because they felt convicted by what Jesus said they all walked away.

Jesus therefore said since nobody was left to condemn her (no witnesses) then He also would not condemn her !!!

We must take all examples into account and not just use one out of context, as Jesus said to the man who He healed at the pool, "Go and sin no more least a worse thing come on you."

Jesus told this man if he went and continued to sin worse things could happen, not that he was healed for the rest of His life !!!

So when you sin..you think God is going to put something worse on you? Or do you just think that happens to others? You already admit you continue in sin...how can you preach a standard you cannot keep?

 

[sydlit]

Do you know that these people who brought her to the Lord was trying to catch Him to be against the Mosaic laws ???

By the Mosaic law if 2 to 3 witnesses came forward then the crime claimed was established as truth, and the punishment was just.

However Jesus turned the tables on them and said, "He who is without sin cast the first stone."

Jesus did not go against the law but instead said only one who was without sin was worthy on making this judgment on her, and because they felt convicted by what Jesus said they all walked away.

Jesus therefore said since nobody was left to condemn her (no witnesses) then He also would not condemn her !!!

We must take all examples into account and not just use one out of context, as Jesus said to the man who He healed at the pool, "Go and sin no more least a worse thing come on you."

Jesus told this man if he went and continued to sin worse things could happen, not that he was healed for the rest of His life !!!

So, do you think the woman, and now also this man, never sinned again? It's a simple question.

 

[KennethC]

All salvation is an extension of His mercy through His Son. There is no other way to the Father and into heaven except through Jesus Christ. You, in the past, have said that a death bed confession is His mercy but you make it seem as if it is by the Lord's whim that this person is saved. No, this person is saved because Jesus, God's Son, died on the cross for him or her. This person is paid for, and they belong to Jesus. This is not God showing mercy through a random decision but is God's plan of reconciliation in motion not willing that any perish.

That is where you are wrong because like the thief on the cross, he repented and acknowledged the sinner that he was, and by saying to the Lord, "Remember me when You come into Your kingdom," is the the asking for forgiveness !!!

Thus the Lord told him today he would be with Him in paradise !!!

Now there was another thief also present and he was rebuked by the thief Jesus forgave, because all he did was mock and ridicule Jesus. Do you think he went to paradise to ??? NO

 

[Grace777x70]

Jesus got rid of the religious zealots before showing Himself to the woman caught in sin.

The LAW demands! Grace supplies!

Which is why we need to hear preaching and teaching on the gospel of the grace of Jesus. The life is in Him...not in our "doing"

 

[KennethC]

So, do you think the woman, and now also this man, never sinned again? It's a simple question.

Actually it is not as simple as you put it because there is different situations when it comes to sinning:

1) Deliberate habitual sinning

2) Struggling

3) Stumble...........this can either have repentance or not


Therefore if you are speaking of the 1st example or the 3rd example without repentance, then the answer to your question would be no if they remained believers in Christ !!!

However if you are speaking of the 2nd example or 3rd example with repentance, then yes they could be in this stance and still be believers in Christ !!!

 

[sydlit]

So, you jumped from the woman taken, and the man healed, to the repentent thief on the cross? That's very convenient, since he didn't have a whole lot of time left to sin more. But can we get back to the question...Did the woman taken, or the man healed, ever sin again after their 'encounter' with Jesus? It's a simple question.

 

[Magenta]

So, you jumped from the woman taken, and the man healed, to the repentent thief on the cross? That's very convenient, since he didn't have a whole lot of time left to sin more. But can we get back to the question...Did the woman taken, or the man healed, ever sin again after their 'encounter' with Jesus? It's a simple question.

The most straightforward answer is we were not told of her fate.

 

[KennethC]

So when you sin..you think God is going to put something worse on you? Or do you just think that happens to others? You already admit you continue in sin...how can you preach a standard you cannot keep?

Have you not seen the difference in sinning that I have spoken on ???

The context is referring to if the man went and continued to live a deliberate life of habitual sinning, as well as the fact there are earthly consequences for certain sins still. There also exists eternal consequences as well or Jesus would not have warned on disobedience as He did in Matthew 25 and Luke 12.

Jesus clearly told that man He healed sin no more or a worse thing would come to him, not that nothing worse could happen to him now.

 

[KennethC]

So, you jumped from the woman taken, and the man healed, to the repentent thief on the cross? That's very convenient, since he didn't have a whole lot of time left to sin more. But can we get back to the question...Did the woman taken, or the man healed, ever sin again after their 'encounter' with Jesus? It's a simple question.

I did answer you and you just did not like the answer, but if you want a straightforward answer in carnal understanding, then by scripture you can't say if they did or didn't !!!

But if you want the answer as referred to what the bible says when it comes to one to remain in Christ, see post #91 again !!!

 

[Mitspa]

Have you not seen the difference in sinning that I have spoken on ???

The context is referring to if the man went and continued to live a deliberate life of habitual sinning, as well as the fact there are earthly consequences for certain sins still. There also exists eternal consequences as well or Jesus would not have warned on disobedience as He did in Matthew 25 and Luke 12.

Jesus clearly told that man He healed sin no more or a worse thing would come to him, not that nothing worse could happen to him now.

So all your saying is that "your" sin is different ...but your teaching another standard for others ... "Blessed is the man in who the Lord will not impute sin" is the only acceptable biblical standard and the only standard that makes folks justified before God.

 

[sydlit]

The most straightforward answer is we were not told of her fate.

good answer. And maybe we shouldn't speculate, so I'll ask it this way. Do you know of anyone who never sinned again after being forgiven by Jesus? (Given time, let's be reasonable, not death bed)
And reading ahead, it seems now ppl are admitting that, yes, they most likely sinned again.

 

[BenFTW]

That is where you are wrong because like the thief on the cross, he repented and acknowledged the sinner that he was, and by saying to the Lord, "Remember me when You come into Your kingdom," is the the asking for forgiveness !!!

Thus the Lord told him today he would be with Him in paradise !!!

Now there was another thief also present and he was rebuked by the thief Jesus forgave, because all he did was mock and ridicule Jesus. Do you think he went to paradise to ??? NO

Okay, but do you suppose this thief needed sanctification? Yes, we all do. Did he receive it? No, because the opportunity didn't present itself.

Though for us the opportunity does present itself, it is not the means by which we are saved, or maintained in our salvation. You would agree, yes? So the problem is the judgemental perspective a person takes in being a fruit inspector deciding and pronouncing judgement that someone else isn't of the faith. Yet, such a person does not know if that person is just on their process of sanctification and the Lord hasn't worked in that area of their life yet.

I see it a lot here. The disagreement comes down to sanctification, how it happens, when it happens, and the necessity for it in our salvation. All these questions considered, somehow certain individuals seem to think that fruit inspection is the end all be all. However, this becomes problematic because we are all being sanctified in our own personal walks with the Lord. Examine yourself, and let them examine themselves.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here are grace-based teachings on both Matt 25 and Luke 12...it makes a huge difference what "lens" you use in viewing scriptures....are we looking through the "lens" of the finished work of Christ?..or through the Old Covenant mindset?.

Click on the links below to view if interested..

The Parable of the Beaten Servants (Luke 12:35-48)

The Parable of the Beaten Servants (Luke 12:35-48) – Escape to Reality

The Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14-30)

The Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14-30) – Escape to Reality

 

[Magenta]

good answer. And maybe we shouldn't speculate, so I'll ask it this way. Do you know of anyone who never sinned again after being forgiven by Jesus? (Given time, let's be reasonable, not death bed)
And reading ahead, it seems now ppl are admitting that, yes, they most likely sinned again.

I will only speak for myself, and given that I have been posting 1 John 1:8 a lot recently, I shall do so again and allow Scripture to speak for me:

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.