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Please do not get me wrong, but how do we learn?
We have to go from a place of ignorance to a place of knowledge.
Now walking in the light is an important concept. It means nothing is off bounds, even if a lot of people get very worked up about it.
We are by nature commited to our Lord and to share our stories. That means we court discussion, sharing, balancing etc.
In the end it is through not taking on the difficult issues that we end up deceived and lost. The problem is this is a war zone of ideas so you are never going to find peace harmony and a nice resolution.
Jesus ended up on the cross because the authorities did not like where he was leading them. Do you think we his follows are going to fair better?
The issues of today in the church in general will end up here. At least he everyone can contribute and the argument rage.
Now for me that is a great thing.
We have to go from a place of ignorance to a place of knowledge.
Now walking in the light is an important concept. It means nothing is off bounds, even if a lot of people get very worked up about it.
We are by nature commited to our Lord and to share our stories. That means we court discussion, sharing, balancing etc.
In the end it is through not taking on the difficult issues that we end up deceived and lost. The problem is this is a war zone of ideas so you are never going to find peace harmony and a nice resolution.
Jesus ended up on the cross because the authorities did not like where he was leading them. Do you think we his follows are going to fair better?
The issues of today in the church in general will end up here. At least he everyone can contribute and the argument rage.
Now for me that is a great thing.
S
There's no such thing as hyper-Armstrongism. Armstrongism is inherently heretical. The basic teachings are that they are going to become Gods in the resurrection, equal with God the Father and Jesus Christ. They claim they are the true Church and that every other organization belongs to Satan. They require keeping the Sabbath, Holy Days and clean/unclean meat laws as conditions of salvation, and they deny Christians are born again. I could go on ad-nauseum but there is really no sound Armstrongism to form a baseline.
The first point alone should cause them to fear to make such claims, as it's blasphemous, let alone claiming that other churches are doing Satan's work, which is a manifestation of the unforgiveable sin (attributing evil to the works of the Holy Spirit). Believe me, they are not team players and they are rock-chuckers who look for everything they can to criticize Christianity about. It's their major occupation.
I was an Armstrongite so I know what they taught. Some of the membership tries to avoid facing the flack for these teachings, but it's plainly taught on their websites.
By the way, it seems like you're insinuating these sorts of things are just minor differences in opinion..in the case of Armstrongism, this is not true. They are actively against the Church. While some of them are probably saved but just deceived, I think many of them are just tools of Satan.
The first point alone should cause them to fear to make such claims, as it's blasphemous, let alone claiming that other churches are doing Satan's work, which is a manifestation of the unforgiveable sin (attributing evil to the works of the Holy Spirit). Believe me, they are not team players and they are rock-chuckers who look for everything they can to criticize Christianity about. It's their major occupation.
I was an Armstrongite so I know what they taught. Some of the membership tries to avoid facing the flack for these teachings, but it's plainly taught on their websites.
By the way, it seems like you're insinuating these sorts of things are just minor differences in opinion..in the case of Armstrongism, this is not true. They are actively against the Church. While some of them are probably saved but just deceived, I think many of them are just tools of Satan.
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S
Many if not all of the other items on the list are peripheral, non-essential issues, but including Armstrongism in any form on that list betrays your lack of knowledge on what they teach. Normal Armstrongism is a cult. I am not sure what hyper-Armstrongism would be. Armstrongite organizations pretty much teach exactly what Herbert Armstrong taught.
Herbert Armstrong was the origin of these false teachings. He derived his doctrine from a mixture of Seventh Day Adventism, Mormons, and Jehovahs Witness theology. From the Seventh Day Adventists, he obtained his teachings on Saturday Sabbath observance. From the Mormons, he obtained his teaching that man is a God being in embryonic form. From the Jehovah's Witnesses, he obtained his teaching of the spirit resurrection, which denies the bodily resurrection and teaches a "spirit resurrection" instead. A more complete listing of his teachings will be included below.
Organizations which came from Armstrongism and teach elements of his heresy include The Philadelphia Church of God (Gerald Flurry), The Restored Church of God (David Pack), Living Church of God (Roderick Meredith), Intercontinental Church of God (Garner Ted Armstrong), United Church of God, Church of God's Faithful (Robert G. Ardis), Independent Church of God (Ronald Dart), Church of God, An International Community (David Hulme), Christian Biblical Church of God (Fred Coulter), The Church of God - PKG (Ron Weinland), House of Yahweh (Yisrayl Hawkins), God's Church, Worldwide (David Moore), Church of God - A Faithful Flock (Alton Billingsley), and Church of God - A Worldwide Organization.
I was a member of Worldwide Church of God for about 10 years under these false teachings. I want to describe the process of accepting these "truths" so you are aware of the danger.
First, you become indoctrinated into the idea that the Seventh Day Sabbath, annual festivals, and clean/unclean meat laws apply to you as a seeker or believer. Unfortunately, due to the ambiguity of traditional Christianity on this subject, younger or less experienced Christians fall for this idea easily. Many within traditional Christianity itself teaches that the Ten Commandments as a whole apply to everyone. They think the day switched from Saturday to Sunday, but they still think that the Sabbath still applies to everyone due to their assertion that it is a moral absolute, rather than a sign of the Old Covenant. They also fail to teach that the Old Covenant applied to ancient Israel and not New Covenant Christians. There is much ambiguity on this topic, and this ambiguity has created an opportunity for Armstrongism to develop.
Second, you become indoctrinated into the idea that the whole world, including Orthodox Christianity, is deceived by Satan, including orthodox Christianity. Because of your new-found knowledge, you and your group alone possess 'the truth'. Orthodox Christianity is viewed as a bunch of unconverted, bumbling idiots who know nothing. They are non-Sabbathkeepers who are still in their sins, and have nothing to teach you. Therefore, you reject any source that could correct your errant belief system. The fact that you know 'the truth' appeals to your sinful nature, as the essence of sin is pride. Most Armstrongites are totally absorbed into intellectual pride and superiority. This increases your enslavery to this false belief system.
Third, you accept doctrines that are even more aberrant because you give great credibility to the source who convinced you of Sabbathkeeping. You are totally ensnared into many false beliefs that you would not have accepted if you had seen the whole picture at the beginning.
Other elements of Herbert Armstrong's teachings include the following:
The basic purpose of preparing this post is to warn others on the forum that they should be careful about accepting unorthodox doctrines blindly. Also, realize that underneath the argument which seems reasonable, like a tasty worm seems to a fish, may be a hook that will ensnare you.
A secondary purpose is to beg those who are holding such views to examine them critically. If you are under Armstrongism, you are in the snare of the devil. You might be saved, but you are in the snare of the devil when it comes to doctrinal issues. I suspect most aren't saved at all.
II Timothy 2: [SUP]23 [/SUP]Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And the Lord's servant[SUP][e][/SUP] must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, [SUP]25 [/SUP]correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, [SUP]26 [/SUP]and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
Armstrongism is all about foolish, ignorant controversies. That's its foundation. Herbert Armstrong was a contentious, quarrelsome man who denied sound doctrine. Instead of focusing on Jesus Christ and salvation by grace through faith, he focused on legalistic nonsense and speculative doctrines and prophecies. Ask yourself if your message is on Jesus Christ and him crucified, or is it on legalistic nonsense and speculative doctrines and prophecies. What was the apostle Paul focused on? Some secret gospel or Jesus Christ? Read Scriptures below.
I can provide guidance on refuting elements of this belief system if anyone wants it.
Robert
I Corinthians 15 Now I would remind you, brothers,[SUP][a][/SUP] of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, [SUP]2 [/SUP]and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, [SUP]4 [/SUP]that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
Herbert Armstrong was the origin of these false teachings. He derived his doctrine from a mixture of Seventh Day Adventism, Mormons, and Jehovahs Witness theology. From the Seventh Day Adventists, he obtained his teachings on Saturday Sabbath observance. From the Mormons, he obtained his teaching that man is a God being in embryonic form. From the Jehovah's Witnesses, he obtained his teaching of the spirit resurrection, which denies the bodily resurrection and teaches a "spirit resurrection" instead. A more complete listing of his teachings will be included below.
Organizations which came from Armstrongism and teach elements of his heresy include The Philadelphia Church of God (Gerald Flurry), The Restored Church of God (David Pack), Living Church of God (Roderick Meredith), Intercontinental Church of God (Garner Ted Armstrong), United Church of God, Church of God's Faithful (Robert G. Ardis), Independent Church of God (Ronald Dart), Church of God, An International Community (David Hulme), Christian Biblical Church of God (Fred Coulter), The Church of God - PKG (Ron Weinland), House of Yahweh (Yisrayl Hawkins), God's Church, Worldwide (David Moore), Church of God - A Faithful Flock (Alton Billingsley), and Church of God - A Worldwide Organization.
I was a member of Worldwide Church of God for about 10 years under these false teachings. I want to describe the process of accepting these "truths" so you are aware of the danger.
First, you become indoctrinated into the idea that the Seventh Day Sabbath, annual festivals, and clean/unclean meat laws apply to you as a seeker or believer. Unfortunately, due to the ambiguity of traditional Christianity on this subject, younger or less experienced Christians fall for this idea easily. Many within traditional Christianity itself teaches that the Ten Commandments as a whole apply to everyone. They think the day switched from Saturday to Sunday, but they still think that the Sabbath still applies to everyone due to their assertion that it is a moral absolute, rather than a sign of the Old Covenant. They also fail to teach that the Old Covenant applied to ancient Israel and not New Covenant Christians. There is much ambiguity on this topic, and this ambiguity has created an opportunity for Armstrongism to develop.
Second, you become indoctrinated into the idea that the whole world, including Orthodox Christianity, is deceived by Satan, including orthodox Christianity. Because of your new-found knowledge, you and your group alone possess 'the truth'. Orthodox Christianity is viewed as a bunch of unconverted, bumbling idiots who know nothing. They are non-Sabbathkeepers who are still in their sins, and have nothing to teach you. Therefore, you reject any source that could correct your errant belief system. The fact that you know 'the truth' appeals to your sinful nature, as the essence of sin is pride. Most Armstrongites are totally absorbed into intellectual pride and superiority. This increases your enslavery to this false belief system.
Third, you accept doctrines that are even more aberrant because you give great credibility to the source who convinced you of Sabbathkeeping. You are totally ensnared into many false beliefs that you would not have accepted if you had seen the whole picture at the beginning.
Other elements of Herbert Armstrong's teachings include the following:
- British - American Israelitism - the claim that Western Europeans and Americans are physical descendants of the "lost ten tribes of Israel". This doctrine was used to strengthen the argument requiring Sabbathkeeping for most individuals who were a part of the church, since they were largely white people of Western European descent. It also created a situation where most of the prophecies in the Bible applied to white people of European descent. Prophecy was a big part of Worldwide Church of God theology.
- God Family Doctrine - the claim that God is a "family" into which converted human beings would be born into, with the full nature and powers of God. Christians were considered to be literal sons of God in this sense, to be born into the Kingdom at the resurrection as a full-fledged God being. Speculation was that they would have their own planet and be worshipped like a God by other human beings at some point. This doctrine denied the fact that Christians have eternal life now. The focus tended to be on the 'not yet' Scriptures of the 'already but not yet' status of believers.
- Apostolic Authority - Herbert Armstrong claimed to be God's apostle or sole authority on Earth. He restored true Christianity to mankind after a 1900 year void in spiritual knowledge, much like Joseph Smith claimed as the founder of the Mormon church. He also claimed to be a prophet by calling himself the Elijah to Come. He prophecied the return of Jesus Christ in 1975, which obviously failed to come true, clearly identifying himself as a false prophet. Unfortunately I did not know the details of this until I was already indoctrinated, and his prophecy was misrepresented to me as a speculation rather than a prophecy.
- View of the Bible - The Bible was written in a coded manner that required putting verses together from different places in the Bible to arrive at sound doctrine. The hermeneutic used to justify this was Isaiah 28:10. If he simply read down to verse 13, he would see that the result of this verse wasn't a good one. The classical error that Herbert Armstrong was engaging in was "collapsing the context"....connecting two unrelated verses in different contexts to create a doctrine.
- Rejection of Orthodox Christianity - Cults must create suspicion about traditional Christianity and Church History in order to make their erroneous assertions by nature. Herbert Armstrong was no different. Besides portraying other Christians as antinomians which are unconcerned with obedience, he characterized them as blind leaders of the blind.
- Trinity Doctrine - He rejected well-founded Christian doctrines such as the Trinity as being of pagan origin. The biblical basis for the Trinity doctrine is solid, and I would encourage anyone who doubts this to read Forgotten Trinity by James White.
- Conspiracy Theories involving Church History - In addition, in order to assert the Sabbathkeeping doctrine, suspicion was created by a distortion of the history of the migration from Saturday observance to Sunday observance. The Emperor Constantine is often blamed for this switch, along with the Roman Catholic church. The reality is that the switch occurred long before that, around 90 AD or earlier, when Christians were no longer welcome in the synagogue due to anti-Christian resistance from the Jews. Christians would often go to the synagogue to hear the Scriptures read on Saturday, and meet by themselves on Sunday to discuss these Scriptures from a Christian standpoint. It was a natural thing for them to begin meeting themselves on Sunday, as they were not parties to the Old Covenant anyways.
- Legalism - Besides adherence to the Saturday Sabbath, Armstrong taught that Christians needed to observe the festivals of Leviticus 23, clean and unclean meat laws, and a system of tithing which allocated about 23% of one's gross income to devotional purposes. This created a serious bind financially amongst the membership. The funny thing is that the pastors did not tithe, so they subjected others to burdens that they themselves did not bear. This reminds me of the Pharisees and Christ's statement in Matthew 23:4. In addition, the Church was inconsistent in its assertions. For example, they claimed that Colossians 2:16-7 was teaching Sabbathkeeping rather than refuting it, but there are problems with that view. One problem is that it's ignoring the context of the rest of the verses around it and the context of the book itself. The other problem is that they did not observe New Moons which were commanded by the same verse.
- Rejection of holidays with pagan origin - Christmas and Easter were rejected as pagan. I know this is an issue with many different Christians outside of Armstrongism, so I have some level of sympathy for anyone who holds this position. However, for me, Christmas simply means getting together with family for fellowship and there is nothing pagan about it. In addition, Easter simply means going to church, and inviting an unsaved friend to attend, as the message is about salvation generally on Easter. If God is going to throw me in hell for that, so be it. I don't hunt easter eggs or do anything with bunnies anyways. This reminds me of another thing about Armstrongism...when the Church had Pentecost calculated wrongly, and were observing it on the wrong day, the Church strongly insisted that God was merciful and would overlook such mistakes, but somehow their doctrinal intolerance did not extend to others outside of their circle..hmmmmm. Sounds like a double standard. Legalists want God to be merciful to them, but not to others.
- Virtual Universalism - Armstrongism teaches that not all are called now, but only a select few individuals, church members, who will be priests and kings in the Millenial reign of Jesus Christ. This is a very dangerous doctrinal position. It implies that today is not the day of salvation, and is a disincentive for evangelizing. In their view, these chosen individuals (again, appealing to human vanity of Armstrongites) are going to guide others into following God in a subsequent resurrection that occurs after the Millennium. A few will reject salvation and be destroyed in the lake of fire, but the majority of mankind will accept salvation during this 100-year period following the Millennium. They call this period of time 'the judgment'. The Bible refutes this idea by stating that the vast majority are on the path of destruction.
- Annihilationism Annihilationism is the doctrinal position that denies eternal torment for those who are lost, but specifies that punishment will be temporary. I am not going to get into this point too much. Suffice it to say that I think both positions, eternal torment and annihilationism, have some reasonable basis in the Scripture and I neither deny or affirm either one of them. Some Christians consider annihilationism to be a damnable heresy but I do not put it on this level. John Stott, a famous theologian who is well respected in evangelical circles, was an annihilationist.
- Soul Sleep - This is the position that the dead are not conscious until the resurrection, either to eternal life or eternal death. This is another doctrinal position that I hold no position on. Scriptures seem to indicate either position, and Martin Luther held the position of soul sleep from my understanding.
- Spirit Resurrection Herbert Armstrong held the position that Christ did not have a resurrection body but that he manifested a physical body at the resurrection. The bodily resurrection is a fundamental doctrine of Christianity. Scripture uses the phrase 'spiritual body' to describe the resurrection body..the Greek word is pneumatikos. Spiritual does not mean composed of spirit, though. It is a glorified physical body which has been changed to be incorruptible and to have different characteristics than the body we currently have. Armstrong denied the bodily resurrection of Christ. If his view was correct, the physical corpse of Christ should have been in the tomb, and we all know that's a primary evidence that he was resurrected. In fact, there is no need for a resurrection unless it involves the physical body. This is a position that he seems to have obtained from Jehovah's Witnesses theology.
The basic purpose of preparing this post is to warn others on the forum that they should be careful about accepting unorthodox doctrines blindly. Also, realize that underneath the argument which seems reasonable, like a tasty worm seems to a fish, may be a hook that will ensnare you.
A secondary purpose is to beg those who are holding such views to examine them critically. If you are under Armstrongism, you are in the snare of the devil. You might be saved, but you are in the snare of the devil when it comes to doctrinal issues. I suspect most aren't saved at all.
II Timothy 2: [SUP]23 [/SUP]Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And the Lord's servant[SUP][e][/SUP] must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, [SUP]25 [/SUP]correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, [SUP]26 [/SUP]and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
Armstrongism is all about foolish, ignorant controversies. That's its foundation. Herbert Armstrong was a contentious, quarrelsome man who denied sound doctrine. Instead of focusing on Jesus Christ and salvation by grace through faith, he focused on legalistic nonsense and speculative doctrines and prophecies. Ask yourself if your message is on Jesus Christ and him crucified, or is it on legalistic nonsense and speculative doctrines and prophecies. What was the apostle Paul focused on? Some secret gospel or Jesus Christ? Read Scriptures below.
I can provide guidance on refuting elements of this belief system if anyone wants it.
Robert
I Corinthians 15 Now I would remind you, brothers,[SUP][a][/SUP] of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, [SUP]2 [/SUP]and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, [SUP]4 [/SUP]that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
S
Yikes. Nothing worse than hitting the beach and seeing a fellow with speedos on that REALLY shouldn't be wearing them. Whew. So.. I'm going to say all men should wear shirts in the summer no matter what. (And women no mini shorts). Maybe everyone just wear long sleeves and long pants /dresses year round. *giggles
C
British - American Israelitism*- the claim that Western Europeans and Americans are physical descendants of the "lost ten tribes of Israel".
Oh that reminds me of a topic from two ladies on another forum. They were absolutely convinced that Jesus went to England between 12 and 30 years old. Serious. I couldn't help but think about Monty Python and the holy grail.
Oh that reminds me of a topic from two ladies on another forum. They were absolutely convinced that Jesus went to England between 12 and 30 years old. Serious. I couldn't help but think about Monty Python and the holy grail.
S
Oh I missed this one too... *Feels dying need to reply* Ok... Here I go...
Butter or margarine? Ehh I really don't like either...
Coke or Pepsi? That's really hard... Maybe Pepsi
Ford or Chevy? CHEVY
Oil or Cream? Not even sure what this is referring to.... hand lotion? Cream...
Sealy or Serta? Neither.... My mattress came from Walmart!
Wawa or Starbucks? Neither.... I drink store brand coffee. Not paying $5 a cup...
Jiffy Pop or Orville Redenbacher? Neither.... Hurts my stomach (Man I'm sounding like a party pooper here....)
Milk or dark chocolate? Ohh... I love those little dark chocolate truffles that are covered in cocoa powder. Yum. They are super duper healthy.... I don't eat milk chocolate often.
Coffee or tea? COFFEE
Chicken or fish? CHICKEN
*Satisfied need to fill gaps in morning routine causing boredom - CHECK - til next time
Butter or margarine? Ehh I really don't like either...
Coke or Pepsi? That's really hard... Maybe Pepsi
Ford or Chevy? CHEVY
Oil or Cream? Not even sure what this is referring to.... hand lotion? Cream...
Sealy or Serta? Neither.... My mattress came from Walmart!
Wawa or Starbucks? Neither.... I drink store brand coffee. Not paying $5 a cup...
Jiffy Pop or Orville Redenbacher? Neither.... Hurts my stomach (Man I'm sounding like a party pooper here....)
Milk or dark chocolate? Ohh... I love those little dark chocolate truffles that are covered in cocoa powder. Yum. They are super duper healthy....
I don't eat milk chocolate often.Coffee or tea? COFFEE
Chicken or fish? CHICKEN
*Satisfied need to fill gaps in morning routine causing boredom - CHECK - til next time
S
LOL. Armstrong never taught that one, but there is the legend that the prophet Jeremiah brought the Stone of Scone that is underneath the throne of Scotland, I believe. It was supposedly the stone that Jacob used for his pillow in Genesis. They use this as a "proof" that the Anglo-Saxons are Israelites.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_Scone
For one thing, it's a legend, and for another thing, it's silly to claim that Jacob kept the stone that he used as a pillow.
Another thing they get confused is that this "Stone of Scone" is the lia-fail stone, which it is not. Lia-fial is a monument in Ireland and has nothing to do with Jacob's Pillow. In fact, it is a phallic worship monument.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lia_Fáil
They also employ word games like "Saxon" comes from "Isaac's Sons"..which is ridiculous..the origin of the word relates to "little ax" or "little hammer".
Like many of these theories, they start with a presupposition and then try to gather all the evidence that they can to support the presupposition, no matter how creative they have to get.
Then, they keep repeating these legends until they are all convinced they are true. It's childish really, and I'm glad I grew out of it. There are at least two people here who believe these teachings still.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_Scone
For one thing, it's a legend, and for another thing, it's silly to claim that Jacob kept the stone that he used as a pillow.
Another thing they get confused is that this "Stone of Scone" is the lia-fail stone, which it is not. Lia-fial is a monument in Ireland and has nothing to do with Jacob's Pillow. In fact, it is a phallic worship monument.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lia_Fáil
They also employ word games like "Saxon" comes from "Isaac's Sons"..which is ridiculous..the origin of the word relates to "little ax" or "little hammer".
Like many of these theories, they start with a presupposition and then try to gather all the evidence that they can to support the presupposition, no matter how creative they have to get.
Then, they keep repeating these legends until they are all convinced they are true. It's childish really, and I'm glad I grew out of it. There are at least two people here who believe these teachings still.
D
I have to add this story,hope Im not derailing. A pastor friend had a church that they had decided to update.Just a small country church.Well they got the board members together to decide what the color of the new carpet should be.Well one old buzzard,bless his heart,could not agree on the color of the carpet.He held the meeting up all evening and they didnt leave till 12pm or more,still with no decision on the carpet.
My pastor friend was so annoyed with the board member. So the next day he went all over town and found as many carpet samples as he could. He drove out to the old board members home and took out all the samples and laid on the hood of his car and wherever he found a space.He knocked on the door and the board member answered.He asked him if he could step outside. He agreed but when his wife asked who was at the door he tried to keep her from knowing it was the pastor.My pastor friend said "no,no bring your wife out too!" He knew she wore the pants in the family.They came outside and the pastor said "now,do you think you could find one color in these samples that you would like for the church?!" His wife said "You were the one that held the meeting up so late last night!!" The board member said to the pastor "just pick whatever you like,it'll be fine with me". The moral of the story is Christians will argue over anything!!
My pastor friend was so annoyed with the board member. So the next day he went all over town and found as many carpet samples as he could. He drove out to the old board members home and took out all the samples and laid on the hood of his car and wherever he found a space.He knocked on the door and the board member answered.He asked him if he could step outside. He agreed but when his wife asked who was at the door he tried to keep her from knowing it was the pastor.My pastor friend said "no,no bring your wife out too!" He knew she wore the pants in the family.They came outside and the pastor said "now,do you think you could find one color in these samples that you would like for the church?!" His wife said "You were the one that held the meeting up so late last night!!" The board member said to the pastor "just pick whatever you like,it'll be fine with me". The moral of the story is Christians will argue over anything!!
(And you can't derail a post that's specifically trying to derail.)
S
Here's a good description of many of the issues related to British Israelism that Herbert Armstrong taught.
Basically he stole his materials from a book called "Judas' scepter and Joseph's birthright" by J. H. Allen, 1902,1917 AD. Like many of his doctrines that he obtained from other sources, he declared them as "new truth" that God revealed to him. His theological system was largely a patchwork quilt of discredited and heretical beliefs obtained from others. If you were not part of his organization, you were deemed as part of Satan's religious system and unsaved.
Anglo/British Israelism Herbert W. Armstrong REFUTED!
Basically he stole his materials from a book called "Judas' scepter and Joseph's birthright" by J. H. Allen, 1902,1917 AD. Like many of his doctrines that he obtained from other sources, he declared them as "new truth" that God revealed to him. His theological system was largely a patchwork quilt of discredited and heretical beliefs obtained from others. If you were not part of his organization, you were deemed as part of Satan's religious system and unsaved.
Anglo/British Israelism Herbert W. Armstrong REFUTED!
D
I was trying to shove as many arguments we've had into one phrase. I am two of those things I included. I was another one, yet I don't hold that as a major point against being saved and trusting the true God. I'm just not going to argue with you, because that's all you do. A debate would be if both sides actually listened.
C
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"
Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.
He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"
Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.
D
Just so you know --
I also don't read really long signs, the back of a tub of toothpaste, (do they even have writing on them anymore?), or click links to stuff I wasn't interested in in the first place.
I tend to walk away from that guy at the party whose chief audience is himself.
AND, I can look at five minutes of commercials on TV without taking in a single one.
I just didn't want you to think it's only you I ignore.
I also don't read really long signs, the back of a tub of toothpaste, (do they even have writing on them anymore?), or click links to stuff I wasn't interested in in the first place.
I tend to walk away from that guy at the party whose chief audience is himself.
AND, I can look at five minutes of commercials on TV without taking in a single one.
I just didn't want you to think it's only you I ignore.