Self Examination: Do you understand the Gospel?
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it is talking in relation to the Old Covenant...if you did the sacrifices...then your sins were forgiven..He always made a way for all of us..
This scripture worked for all the old testament people too after the cross..
Romans 3:23-25 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
This scripture worked for all the old testament people too after the cross..
Romans 3:23-25 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
ER I kind of get your point.
If I sin but deny it and say you are sinning and need to repent, it does not work.
In your world I cannot walk in righteousness so must be a legalist or an easy believer.
You are being honest by accepting Christ on the cross and failure because there is no other way.
On the other hand, if my view of sin is right, I can walk in righteousness, and you are condemning yourself unnecessarily.
Salvation is lost because people stay in willful sin and walk away from faith.
Now in my model, Jesus transforms us into the Kingdom as children of light, where we become brighter as we grow.
For you there is always the flesh evil, and the spirit perfect, and going from flesh to spirit.
Now within this people vary about does the flesh die etc. or reduce in impact on your life.
Innate is acceptance of failure, there is just confusion what is failure and what is success.
Now we are not going to agree, but at least I think this defines the difference.
You will coat it in spiritualeese but I think this about wraps it up.
If I sin but deny it and say you are sinning and need to repent, it does not work.
In your world I cannot walk in righteousness so must be a legalist or an easy believer.
You are being honest by accepting Christ on the cross and failure because there is no other way.
On the other hand, if my view of sin is right, I can walk in righteousness, and you are condemning yourself unnecessarily.
Salvation is lost because people stay in willful sin and walk away from faith.
Now in my model, Jesus transforms us into the Kingdom as children of light, where we become brighter as we grow.
For you there is always the flesh evil, and the spirit perfect, and going from flesh to spirit.
Now within this people vary about does the flesh die etc. or reduce in impact on your life.
Innate is acceptance of failure, there is just confusion what is failure and what is success.
Now we are not going to agree, but at least I think this defines the difference.
You will coat it in spiritualeese but I think this about wraps it up.
L
Yes, those links have helped me understand something that is not addressed longer than I'd like or the question asked gets side tracked. When this happens I can go to the links and get an in depth explanation and then actually consider if it lines up with the Bible and pray about it.
Some posts are excellent and give a good answer but some further explanation later on when I'm no longer on these forums is an excellent resource I can put on my computer links. So keep them coming please!
[video=youtube;TGwXIoMnNgg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGwXIoMnNgg[/video]
Question: "What is lordship salvation?"
Answer: The doctrine of lordship salvation teaches that submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with trusting in Christ as Savior. Lordship salvation is the opposite of what is sometimes called easy-believism or the teaching that salvation comes through an acknowledgement of a certain set of facts.
John MacArthur, whose book The Gospel According to Jesus lays out the case for lordship salvation, summarizes the teaching this way: “The gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ’s authority.” In other words, a sinner who refuses to repent is not saved, for he cannot cling to his sin and the Savior at the same time. And a sinner who rejects Christ’s authority in his life does not have saving faith, for true faith encompasses a surrender to God. Thus, the gospel requires more than making an intellectual decision or mouthing a prayer; the gospel message is a call to discipleship. The sheep will follow their Shepherd in submissive obedience.
Advocates of lordship salvation point to Jesus’ repeated warnings to the religious hypocrites of His day as proof that simply agreeing to spiritual facts does not save a person. There must be a heart change. Jesus emphasized the high cost of discipleship: “Whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:27), and “Those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples” (verse 32). In the same passage, Jesus speaks of counting the cost; elsewhere, He stresses total commitment: “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God” (Luke 9:62).
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says that eternal life is a narrow path found by “only a few” (Matthew 7:14); in contrast, easy-believism seeks to broaden the path so that anyone who has a profession of faith can enter. Jesus says that “every good tree bears good fruit” (verse 17); in contrast, easy-believism says that a tree can still be good and bear nothing but bad fruit. Jesus says that many who say “Lord, Lord” will not enter the kingdom (verses 21–23); in contrast, easy-believism teaches that saying “Lord, Lord” is good enough.
Lordship salvation teaches that a true profession of faith will be backed up by evidence of faith. If a person is truly following the Lord, then he or she will obey the Lord’s instructions. A person who is living in willful, unrepentant sin has obviously not chosen to follow Christ, because Christ calls us out of sin and into righteousness. Indeed, the Bible clearly teaches that faith in Christ will result in a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 5:22–23; James 2:14–26).
Lordship salvation is not a salvation-by-works doctrine. Advocates of lordship salvation are careful to say that salvation is by grace alone, that believers are saved before their faith ever produces any good works, and that Christians can and do sin. However, true salvation will inevitably lead to a changed life. The saved will be dedicated to their Savior. A true Christian will not feel comfortable living in unconfessed, unforsaken sin.
Read more at gotquestions.org
Seems legit to me.
Question: "What is lordship salvation?"
Answer: The doctrine of lordship salvation teaches that submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with trusting in Christ as Savior. Lordship salvation is the opposite of what is sometimes called easy-believism or the teaching that salvation comes through an acknowledgement of a certain set of facts.
John MacArthur, whose book The Gospel According to Jesus lays out the case for lordship salvation, summarizes the teaching this way: “The gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ’s authority.” In other words, a sinner who refuses to repent is not saved, for he cannot cling to his sin and the Savior at the same time. And a sinner who rejects Christ’s authority in his life does not have saving faith, for true faith encompasses a surrender to God. Thus, the gospel requires more than making an intellectual decision or mouthing a prayer; the gospel message is a call to discipleship. The sheep will follow their Shepherd in submissive obedience.
Advocates of lordship salvation point to Jesus’ repeated warnings to the religious hypocrites of His day as proof that simply agreeing to spiritual facts does not save a person. There must be a heart change. Jesus emphasized the high cost of discipleship: “Whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:27), and “Those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples” (verse 32). In the same passage, Jesus speaks of counting the cost; elsewhere, He stresses total commitment: “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God” (Luke 9:62).
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says that eternal life is a narrow path found by “only a few” (Matthew 7:14); in contrast, easy-believism seeks to broaden the path so that anyone who has a profession of faith can enter. Jesus says that “every good tree bears good fruit” (verse 17); in contrast, easy-believism says that a tree can still be good and bear nothing but bad fruit. Jesus says that many who say “Lord, Lord” will not enter the kingdom (verses 21–23); in contrast, easy-believism teaches that saying “Lord, Lord” is good enough.
Lordship salvation teaches that a true profession of faith will be backed up by evidence of faith. If a person is truly following the Lord, then he or she will obey the Lord’s instructions. A person who is living in willful, unrepentant sin has obviously not chosen to follow Christ, because Christ calls us out of sin and into righteousness. Indeed, the Bible clearly teaches that faith in Christ will result in a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 5:22–23; James 2:14–26).
Lordship salvation is not a salvation-by-works doctrine. Advocates of lordship salvation are careful to say that salvation is by grace alone, that believers are saved before their faith ever produces any good works, and that Christians can and do sin. However, true salvation will inevitably lead to a changed life. The saved will be dedicated to their Savior. A true Christian will not feel comfortable living in unconfessed, unforsaken sin.
Read more at gotquestions.org
Seems legit to me.
Proverbs 18:1
An unfriendly person pursues selfish ends and against all sound judgment starts quarrels.
An unfriendly person pursues selfish ends and against all sound judgment starts quarrels.
G
Grace777, from my understanding, the works that the OT saints did was their experiential sanctification. Not their salvation. the killing of animals was their acknowledgement of their sins to God, it wasn't their salvation.
They were secure in the salvation through their faith in the future Cross, following His commands was their experiential sanctification.
The Church just has 1 John 1:9. name it and site it and carry on. And not for salvation, but to continue on in His plan or the Christian way of life in time.
They were secure in the salvation through their faith in the future Cross, following His commands was their experiential sanctification.
The Church just has 1 John 1:9. name it and site it and carry on. And not for salvation, but to continue on in His plan or the Christian way of life in time.
Romans 16:17-18
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
1 Timothy 5:20
As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
2 John 1:10
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting,
Ephesians 5:6-13
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not become partners with them; for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. ...
Amos 3:3
Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
1 Timothy 5:20
As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
2 John 1:10
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting,
Ephesians 5:6-13
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not become partners with them; for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. ...
Amos 3:3
Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
I'm just teasin' ya about MacArthur...just showing you there are those that oppose everyone on the internet no matter who they are...and the funny thing is..all of them are heretics and false teachers....it's just that the other's teaching "conflicts" with their religious beliefs ........
There are obviously 2 sides to this and we will just agree to disagree...
..anyway I'm going to stop this playing around and I hope one day we are standing together and singing this song to the Lord Jesus Christ! He is worthy!
[video=youtube;3dZMBrGGmeE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dZMBrGGmeE[/video]
There are obviously 2 sides to this and we will just agree to disagree...
..anyway I'm going to stop this playing around and I hope one day we are standing together and singing this song to the Lord Jesus Christ! He is worthy!
[video=youtube;3dZMBrGGmeE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dZMBrGGmeE[/video]
Amen...here is one to apply this too....the stuff you see on the internet eh?
it gets worse....the stuff on the internet...what should we do with all these false teachers?....
John Macarthur's Heretical Teaching Regarding the Blood of Christ
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it gets worse....the stuff on the internet...what should we do with all these false teachers?....
John Macarthur's Heretical Teaching Regarding the Blood of Christ
Click below on blank
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With all that being said, I think MacArthur's views on Lordship salvation would mirror my own. He gets the Gospel right with no sugar coating. It's not some head knowledge that saves us. It's denying ourselves and believing in and following Christ. Bethel doesn't even preach the Gospel man. It's an apostate church. I'm not trying to attack anyone here personally, but I can't figure out why all of these false teachers are allowed to be publicized here and their teachings spread around like wildfire and nothing is done about it.
If a Jehova's witness or Mormon was here preaching doctrine like this and false gospels or were being allowed to promote their teachers, they would be banned in a heartbeat. Again, MacArthur doesn't preach a false Gospel.
I'm just teasin' ya about MacArthur...just showing you there are those that oppose everyone on the internet no matter who they are...and the funny thing is..all of them are heretics and false teachers....it's just that the other's teaching "conflicts" with their religious beliefs ........
There are obviously 2 sides to this and we will just agree to disagree...
..anyway I'm going to stop this playing around and I hope one day we are standing together and singing this song to the Lord Jesus Christ! He is worthy!
[video=youtube;3dZMBrGGmeE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dZMBrGGmeE[/video]
There are obviously 2 sides to this and we will just agree to disagree...
..anyway I'm going to stop this playing around and I hope one day we are standing together and singing this song to the Lord Jesus Christ! He is worthy!
[video=youtube;3dZMBrGGmeE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dZMBrGGmeE[/video]