Self Examination: Do you understand the Gospel?

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Gr8grace

Guest
[video=youtube;TGwXIoMnNgg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGwXIoMnNgg[/video]

Question: "What is lordship salvation?"

Answer:
The doctrine of lordship salvation teaches that submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with trusting in Christ as Savior. Lordship salvation is the opposite of what is sometimes called easy-believism or the teaching that salvation comes through an acknowledgement of a certain set of facts.

John MacArthur, whose book The Gospel According to Jesus lays out the case for lordship salvation, summarizes the teaching this way: “The gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ’s authority.” In other words, a sinner who refuses to repent is not saved, for he cannot cling to his sin and the Savior at the same time. And a sinner who rejects Christ’s authority in his life does not have saving faith, for true faith encompasses a surrender to God. Thus, the gospel requires more than making an intellectual decision or mouthing a prayer; the gospel message is a call to discipleship. The sheep will follow their Shepherd in submissive obedience.

Advocates of lordship salvation point to Jesus’ repeated warnings to the religious hypocrites of His day as proof that simply agreeing to spiritual facts does not save a person. There must be a heart change. Jesus emphasized the high cost of discipleship: “Whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:27), and “Those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples” (verse 32). In the same passage, Jesus speaks of counting the cost; elsewhere, He stresses total commitment: “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God” (Luke 9:62).

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says that eternal life is a narrow path found by “only a few” (Matthew 7:14); in contrast, easy-believism seeks to broaden the path so that anyone who has a profession of faith can enter. Jesus says that “every good tree bears good fruit” (verse 17); in contrast, easy-believism says that a tree can still be good and bear nothing but bad fruit. Jesus says that many who say “Lord, Lord” will not enter the kingdom (verses 21–23); in contrast, easy-believism teaches that saying “Lord, Lord” is good enough.

Lordship salvation teaches that a true profession of faith will be backed up by evidence of faith. If a person is truly following the Lord, then he or she will obey the Lord’s instructions. A person who is living in willful, unrepentant sin has obviously not chosen to follow Christ, because Christ calls us out of sin and into righteousness. Indeed, the Bible clearly teaches that faith in Christ will result in a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 5:22–23; James 2:14–26).

Lordship salvation is not a salvation-by-works doctrine. Advocates of lordship salvation are careful to say that salvation is by grace alone, that believers are saved before their faith ever produces any good works, and that Christians can and do sin. However, true salvation will inevitably lead to a changed life. The saved will be dedicated to their Savior. A true Christian will not feel comfortable living in unconfessed, unforsaken sin.

Read more at gotquestions.org

Seems legit to me. :cool:
The devil is a MASTER deceiver. He counterfeits God in everything God does............and this kind of stuff is satans counterfeit of Gods Grace. It is sooooooooooooooooooo close to the truth, we have better have doctrine in our souls to sniff it out.

We simply believe/trust on Christ finished work on the Cross and God saves the sinner. It is an objective salvation.

John Mac's is a subjective salvation. If I do x and y a little more than the worst "christian", i probably am saved and did enough. If I sin a little less and follow Christ a little more than the next guy, I am probably saved.

There is no objective standard, its all subjective.......we set the standard.

Believe/trust on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. Objective and the true standard is set.

In fact the very thing that he sets out to attack "easy believism" , is what he is preaching. We all get to set our own standard. I didn't habitually sin because habitually sinning is every day. and I only did it every other day.

I didn't habitually sin, because habitually sinning is every hour, I just did it every day.....easy.

You mean all I have to do is believe? And nothing else? Its amazing how hard that is for us, yet so easy.
 
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ladylynn

Guest

There are zillions of people on the internet that I do not know. With the increase in technology., we are able to see and hear many things we would never have even known about before. This technology can be used for much good and we can benefit from using it. But it can also be used in a bad way and in ways that can harm others not help them.

There is a huge stream of many different people posting different ideas and opinions. Just because
some of these people talk about Jesus, they do not reflect my views on the Bible and who Jesus is.
It is a false assumption for anyone to lump Christians here along side those links who show people seeing dust clouds in the air of their churches or a strange man who wears a Afro wig holding a fetus Jesus. or who falls down on the floor, or who barks like a dog etc...etc...etc... :confused:

It is wrong to post such wacky stuff and then say believers in this thread here follow the teachers who know the preachers who are friends with the man who knows the guy who preaches this stuff and that this is what it is coming to. :confused:


I personally hold to a Word of Faith leaning but certainly NOT the kind of Word of Faith stuff that is flowing out of these forums. It's like saying since my dad was a policeman he was a dirty cop. Not all cops are on the take, and most are not. For as many bad cops out there, I know 10xs as many good cops. But if you post police brutality all the time, you will lump even my good dad who was a great policemen in the group and that is 100% wrong on every level.


 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
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The devil is a MASTER deceiver. He counterfeits God in everything God does............and this kind of stuff is satans counterfeit of Gods Grace. It is sooooooooooooooooooo close to the truth, we have better have doctrine in our souls to sniff it out.

We simply believe/trust on Christ finished work on the Cross and God saves the sinner. It is an objective salvation.

John Mac's is a subjective salvation. If I do x and y a little more than the worst "christian", i probably am saved and did enough. If I sin a little less and follow Christ a little more than the next guy, I am probably saved.

There is no objective standard, its all subjective.......we set the standard.

Believe/trust on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. Objective and the true standard is set.

In fact the very thing that he sets out to attack "easy believism" , is what he is preaching. We all get to set our own standard. I didn't habitually sin because habitually sinning is every day. and I only did it every other day.

I didn't habitually sin, because habitually sinning is every hour, I just did it every day.....easy.

You mean all I have to do is believe? And nothing else? Its amazing how hard that is for us, yet so easy.
Having faith in and submitting yourself to the one you call Lord, Christ, and God is satanic? Careful there. It's not about doing anything to be saved. It's about evidence of being saved. If someone hasn't submitted themselves to Christ in all aspects of their being, then they have no real faith. They may believe, but have no faith.

Think about it like this. Someone has a head knowledge of Christ. They believe he existed and did all he said he did. But they do not pick up their cross and follow him. Is their faith genuine? I would say no. A real saving faith would produce a yearning to follow and obey. To deny self and follow him. The same is true for demons. "You believe there is one God? You do well. Even the demons believe, and shudder."

Before you call obedience in Christ through saving faith satanic, at least take the time to compare the views. MacArthur preaches the full Gospel of Christ. Bethel church doesn't.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
I'm just teasin' ya about MacArthur...just showing you there are those that oppose everyone on the internet no matter who they are...and the funny thing is..all of them are heretics and false teachers....it's just that the other's teaching "conflicts" with their religious beliefs ........

There are obviously 2 sides to this and we will just agree to disagree...:)

..anyway I'm going to stop this playing around and I hope one day we are standing together and singing this song to the Lord Jesus Christ! He is worthy!



[video=youtube;3dZMBrGGmeE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dZMBrGGmeE[/video]




This young girl has such a talent for worship music. I very much enjoy listening to her. Amen.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
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The difference in "easy believism" and "lordship salvation" can be seen in the parable of the sower I think.

Easy believism:

[SUP]20 [/SUP]The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Lordship Salvation

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I agree.....everyone has to follow the witness of the Holy Spirit within them as they walk with the Lord.

On a funny side note...my brother was actually at that meeting in Bethel church when that cloud came in the meeting...he said everyone was amazed. God can still do what He wants and not all things are recorded in the bible. There was a cloud of the manifested presence of God in the Old Covenant that showed up...I have never seen any clouds and I certainly don't go looking for them..... I know my brother though and I trust what he said he saw as he is a very conservative and quiet man...for what ever that is worth.

John 21:24-25 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.



There are zillions of people on the internet that I do not know. With the increase in technology., we are able to see and hear many things we would never have even known about before. This technology can be used for much good and we can benefit from using it. But it can also be used in a bad way and in ways that can harm others not help them.

There is a huge stream of many different people posting different ideas and opinions. Just because
some of these people talk about Jesus, they do not reflect my views on the Bible and who Jesus is.
It is a false assumption for anyone to lump Christians here along side those links who show people seeing dust clouds in the air of their churches or a strange man who wears a Afro wig holding a fetus Jesus. or who falls down on the floor, or who barks like a dog etc...etc...etc... :confused:

It is wrong to post such wacky stuff and then say believers in this thread here follow the teachers who know the preachers who are friends with the man who knows the guy who preaches this stuff and that this is what it is coming to. :confused:


I personally hold to a Word of Faith leaning but certainly NOT the kind of Word of Faith stuff that is flowing out of these forums. It's like saying since my dad was a policeman he was a dirty cop. Not all cops are on the take, and most are not. For as many bad cops out there, I know 10xs as many good cops. But if you post police brutality all the time, you will lump even my good dad who was a great policemen in the group and that is 100% wrong on every level.


 
Nov 22, 2015
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The preaching of the full gospel ( remember it is good news ) of the grace of Christ will preach healing in the call to receive the forgiveness of sins that Jesus bought for them with His blood. If any group of people does the above..then they are preaching the full gospel....we have a great salvation in Jesus!
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
Having faith in and submitting yourself to the one you call Lord, Christ, and God is satanic? Careful there. It's not about doing anything to be saved. It's about evidence of being saved. If someone hasn't submitted themselves to Christ in all aspects of their being, then they have no real faith. They may believe, but have no faith.

Think about it like this. Someone has a head knowledge of Christ. They believe he existed and did all he said he did. But they do not pick up their cross and follow him. Is their faith genuine? I would say no. A real saving faith would produce a yearning to follow and obey. To deny self and follow him. The same is true for demons. "You believe there is one God? You do well. Even the demons believe, and shudder."

Before you call obedience in Christ through saving faith satanic, at least take the time to compare the views. MacArthur preaches the full Gospel of Christ. Bethel church doesn't.
Lordship salvation is satanic. It is the angel of light side of satan. Sorry.

You don't believe in one God for salvation. the Jews believe in one God and are not saved.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

I think that there are a WHOLE lot of unbelievers who only have a head knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and try like the dickens to walk like Him.

I was in a church that idolized Johnny for 8 years. I know the view quite well.
 
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ladylynn

Guest

Was raised on John M. and know what he preaches. Our family had his cassette tapes and we tried to do our family according to the teaching of Lordship salvation. Did not go very well for any of us. Without the revelation of the righteousness of Jesus Christ as the Christians identity., the believer will not be able to stand when the trials of life come. "....looking to Jesus, the Author and finisher of our faith.."
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
The difference in "easy believism" and "lordship salvation" can be seen in the parable of the sower I think.

Easy believism:

[SUP]20 [/SUP]The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Lordship Salvation

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
Both are saved.

one is a loser believer and one goes on to maturity.......a winner.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest

Was raised on John M. and know what he preaches. Our family had his cassette tapes and we tried to do our family according to the teaching of Lordship salvation. Did not go very well for any of us. Without the revelation of the righteousness of Jesus Christ as the Christians identity., the believer will not be able to stand when the trials of life come. "....looking to Jesus, the Author and finisher of our faith.."
I was stuck under him also. I have to be careful........the fangs can come out pretty quick. What bondage, but it really made me appreciate Grace all the more when we left!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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That's interesting...What would have been your response to someone that told you anything different then the teaching you were under ? ( obviously not now but when you were in it..)

I know for myself if anyone told me I needed to know grace in the church world I was in..I would have denied it to the teeth...lol...and I would have died saying " We are saved by grace"...


I was stuck under him also. I have to be careful........the fangs can come out pretty quick. What bondage, but it really made me appreciate Grace all the more when we left!
 
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ladylynn

Guest
I agree.....everyone has to follow the witness of the Holy Spirit within them as they walk with the Lord.

On a funny side note...my brother was actually at that meeting in Bethel church when that cloud came in the meeting...he said everyone was amazed. God can still do what He wants and not all things are recorded in the bible. There was a cloud of the manifested presence of God in the Old Covenant that showed up...I have never seen any clouds and I certainly don't go looking for them..... I know my brother though and I trust what he said he saw as he is a very conservative and quiet man...for what ever that is worth.

John 21:24-25 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.


And I certainly can appreciate that Grace777. I don't know your brother but I've seen enough of your posts to appreciate your opinions and your stand for the truth. Although I have not seen it, nor have I seen the raising of a dead person I do believe these things occur a lot but I just have not seen them yet.

The Bible tells us that the wheat people will grow up with the chaff people right? But in the mean time it is our responsibility to discern each day what we see and hear and read. There are many mysteries and God is able to do above and beyond what we can even begin to expect.

But since this particular issue has not come to my house, I can neither endorse or refute it Scripturally especially since it's not outlined in the Bible as you shared in John 21:25. But I've learned enough about God showing up in places we least expect that I am doing a lot more accepting than rejecting these days. Blessings Grace777
 
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ladylynn

Guest
I was stuck under him also. I have to be careful........the fangs can come out pretty quick. What bondage, but it really made me appreciate Grace all the more when we left!

Same here Gr8grace., :D learned some good stuff learned some bad stuff. Am so glad to be learning how to "take the hay and leave the straw" :) But sure have left A pile of straw along my path in life. :eek:
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I agree...my personal stance on issues like this is to be open from what God wants to do...but not to go looking for "things".....I don't go seeking these things nor even think about them , nor do I spent time looking for blood moons and whatever else there is out there to get our eyes off of Jesus.....

...growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus is my main thrust. He is our treasure. Getting to know my Father's heart towards me as His son and how He views others in the world. All else will naturally fall into place for what my part is in my time here...


And I certainly can appreciate that Grace777. I don't know your brother but I've seen enough of your posts to appreciate your opinions and your stand for the truth. Although I have not seen it, nor have I seen the raising of a dead person I do believe these things occur a lot but I just have not seen them yet.

The Bible tells us that the wheat people will grow up with the chaff people right? But in the mean time it is our responsibility to discern each day what we see and hear and read. There are many mysteries and God is able to do above and beyond what we can even begin to expect.

But since this particular issue has not come to my house, I can neither endorse or refute it Scripturally especially since it's not outlined in the Bible as you shared in John 21:25. But I've learned enough about God showing up in places we least expect that I am doing a lot more accepting than rejecting these days. Blessings Grace777
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,946
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Australia
One is not saved at all.
How can you make that Judgement.
Sure we can judge people by their fruits but only God knows the motives of a persons heart. The road of sanctification is long and people are at every stage. He that is without sin cast the first stone.
 
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ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
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How can you make that Judgement.
Sure we can judge people by their fruits but only God know the motives of a persons heart. The of sanctification is long and people are at every stage. He that is without sin cast the first stone.
It's clear from the text. One group heard the word and received but had no understanding of it. They soon fall away and wilt and die. The other group receives it, understands it, and produces fruit. This is comparison to other texts.

Faith without works is dead.
A tree that doesn't bear good fruit is cut down and thrown in the fire.
A good tree cannot produce bad fruit.
Those who love me will obey my commands.
Because you are neither hot nor cold, I will spew you out of my mouth.
Many will say to me Lord, Lord, but I will declare I never knew you.
The many verses about people being deceived by false teachers who mix in a little truth.

And these in unison to passages that call us to examine ourselves to be sure we are even in the faith and not deceived. Work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Test the spirits to be whether they are from God. Study to show yourself approved.

A simple head knowledge is not the faith scripture talks about. The text is clear.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
That's interesting...What would have been your response to someone that told you anything different then the teaching you were under ? ( obviously not now but when you were in it..)

I know for myself if anyone told me I needed to know grace in the church world I was in..I would have denied it to the teeth...lol...and I would have died saying " We are saved by grace"...
I was never confident in it. I always said to myself," Something is just not right here." I wouldn't of defended it. for me it was just going through the motions.......this is what Christians do.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I hear ya'...I had a similar feeling too...it's like inside..something is just not right here..but it was hard to put a finger on it...I also had a feeling to stay away from people in the world...like shun them......but now in grace I embrace them and love on them without judgment.

Also there was no victory in the Christian life..and hardly any joy and life....but that has all changed now!..Praise God! When you really see Jesus and what He has done..it makes you fall down and worship Him...love Him...run to Him no matter what is happening...it's like night and day difference...

I was never confident in it. I always said to myself," Something is just not right here." I wouldn't of defended it. for me it was just going through the motions.......this is what Christians do.