I can't say that I know...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S

Stone5524

Guest
#1
#1
I've done bad in my life. I've lied, stolen, lusted, dishonored my parents, and abused nearly every substance short of the ones involving needles.

The thing that I always have trouble with is when people say that if I believe in Jesus than I am saved. They will tell me that its scripture and truth, that if I don't believe in it than I'm not a christian.

I believe fully Jesus died for our sins. I believe in Jesus Christ. I can go forward and pray, repent endlessly, live in shame, and possibly go forward being a decent example for others and help a few souls along the way.

The problem is...there's something in me that does not allow me the freedom of concern regarding salvation. I mean...I always hear ppl saying they know they're going to heaven and that they are saved...but I imagine scenes in my mind, one of me approaching an all powerful god sitting in judgment over me.

From this time til then...I'll never be able to entertain the notion of me walking forward with chin held high with absolute certainty of approval and acceptance. I just cannot fathom it. I see myself with eyes downcast and in fear, thinking only of failures regardless of whatever success I might have had.

You can quote scripture to me in response, but I've tried this already.
 
C

crosstweed

Guest
#2
#2
You obviously are feeling that something is fishy in your life and you're acknowledging it. That's good. Now, are you willing to deal with the problem?

https://archive.org/details/SamuelLoganBrengle-TheWayOfHoliness-SalvationArmyCommissioner-

The Way of Holiness - You read this short little book all the way through, and I highly doubt you will come away without the answers you're looking for. Follow the link and the chapters are listed on the bar to the right. I've linked you to chapter one. This little old book was the catalyst for me getting really and truly saved, even though getting saved wasn't technically the premise of the book, but rather the sin nature inside of humans.
 
J

JeniBean

Guest
#3
#3
Matthew, I have had this conversation with many young men. Including my own deceased brother. I KNOW he is in heaven. I do not doubt this. You, just as he did... is the one who doubts it. SO here is my question to you. All that you have been through and endured, perhaps it is to help others through it and lead them to the lord. But first you need to truly believe and sometimes talking with those who are struggling through it, will help you find your belief. Please think about it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
C

coby

Guest
#4
#4
Stone5524 said:
I've done bad in my life. I've lied, stolen, lusted, dishonored my parents, and abused nearly every substance short of the ones involving needles.

The thing that I always have trouble with is when people say that if I believe in Jesus than I am saved. They will tell me that its scripture and truth, that if I don't believe in it than I'm not a christian.

I believe fully Jesus died for our sins. I believe in Jesus Christ. I can go forward and pray, repent endlessly, live in shame, and possibly go forward being a decent example for others and help a few souls along the way.

The problem is...there's something in me that does not allow me the freedom of concern regarding salvation. I mean...I always hear ppl saying they know they're going to heaven and that they are saved...but I imagine scenes in my mind, one of me approaching an all powerful god sitting in judgment over me.

From this time til then...I'll never be able to entertain the notion of me walking forward with chin held high with absolute certainty of approval and acceptance. I just cannot fathom it. I see myself with eyes downcast and in fear, thinking only of failures regardless of whatever success I might have had.

You can quote scripture to me in response, but I've tried this already.
Click to expand...
an all powerful God sitting in judgement
You have an Advocate. He took your sins on Him. Get to know Him more. If you feel like that you don't know His Fatherheart. It's like the lost son who thought his dad would be angry but he threw a party, he was so happy he came back. Have you ever been to an encounter where you can encounter God and get healed up?
I had times I thought God hated me. Then I just said: No He loves me and the proof is that He died for me. You don't die for someone you hate and want to judge.
 
zeroturbulence

zeroturbulence

Senior Member
#5
Aug 2, 2009
24,646
4,305
113
#5
King David was an adulterer.

Moses was a murderer.

Paul tortured and killed christians for their beliefs.

Peter denied Christ three times.


So unless you've done more than murdered, tortured christians, and slept with married women you still qualify to be as holy as the apostles!
 
Oncefallen

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
#6
Jan 15, 2011
6,066
3,415
113
#6
Stone, I would be willing to guess that you grew up in a home where your best efforts just weren't good enough to "earn" your parents love. We tend to project our relationship (or lack thereof) with our earthly parents onto God. I've come across tons of Christians (myself included in the past) who just cannot perceive that their Heavenly Father's love for them is not based on what they have done, but what Christ did in their place.

It is possible to overcome the feeling of personal failure in the face of God but it does take a concerted effort on your part with the help of God. It took years to develop the core belief that you aren't worthy and it won't go away overnight. You need to begin to change what psychologists call "self talk" which is what we tell ourselves about ourselves and the world around us.

 
cinder

cinder

Senior Member
#7
Mar 26, 2014
4,433
2,418
113
#7
Stone5524 said:
I've done bad in my life. I've lied, stolen, lusted, dishonored my parents, and abused nearly every substance short of the ones involving needles.

The thing that I always have trouble with is when people say that if I believe in Jesus than I am saved. They will tell me that its scripture and truth, that if I don't believe in it than I'm not a christian.

I believe fully Jesus died for our sins. I believe in Jesus Christ. I can go forward and pray, repent endlessly, live in shame, and possibly go forward being a decent example for others and help a few souls along the way.

The problem is...there's something in me that does not allow me the freedom of concern regarding salvation. I mean...I always hear ppl saying they know they're going to heaven and that they are saved...but I imagine scenes in my mind, one of me approaching an all powerful god sitting in judgment over me.

From this time til then...I'll never be able to entertain the notion of me walking forward with chin held high with absolute certainty of approval and acceptance. I just cannot fathom it. I see myself with eyes downcast and in fear, thinking only of failures regardless of whatever success I might have had.

You can quote scripture to me in response, but I've tried this already.
Click to expand...
A few things that come to mind while reading this. Believing facts about Jesus (like that he died for the sins of the world) isn't the same as believing in Jesus and having faith. Faith is more about trusting and following than having right knowledge. So if you can't quite connect with the reality of heaven, eternity with God, or God's acceptance, but you still follow and obey because you are convinced it's right, I'd have a hard time believing God's going to be at all upset with you over that. Not that he doesn't want you to have assurance of salvation (there's a nice churchy phrase), but having the assurance isn't the same as having the actual salvation. It has a lot of value but it doesn't mean you aren't saved.

Repentance is another idea that's often misunderstood. Being sorry you got caught, sorry you're not good enough for God, or sorry I did something I shouldn't but well it really wasn't that bad in this situation aren't repentance. Repentance is ultimately about changing your mind about what is right and wrong, what is acceptable and appropriate for you to do, so that you turn away in abhorrence from the things that God says will destroy you. Now we don't get there in one jump but that's the direction we should see growth in. That's not to say that you haven't truly repented; I'm just trying to clarify definitions of terms here.

The other thing to talk about is the truth and experience of acceptance by God and by God's people. The good news is that God does accept us, warts and all. The book of Romans (especially Romans 8) talks about this and to summarize Paul's argument it goes something like, God has done everything he can, paid the highest price he could, to rescue you. It's what he wants to do. He's looking for every way, every reason to have you be someone who can dwell in his presence. Do you really think he's going to exclude you on a technicality, that he's then going to wait until the last minute to spring some unknown failure on you and send you away? The downside of this is that being accepted in many churches and Christian culture in general is quite a bit more difficult. Because we tend to have all these performance ideas and an unbending standard and some really foolish and unbiblical notions about how this whole behavior after salvation thing is supposed to work. And we usually don't care whether is was a 20 mile or 20 inch journey to meet that line of acceptable behavior, just whether a person has met it or not.

Anyway, welcome to CC singles. Hope you stick around. I'm getting the impression you'll be a valuable addition to our little community here.
 
S

Stone5524

Guest
#8
#8
My dad was a military man his whole life. Often critical and hard to please...heard him tell me he was proud of me once and I was often angry with him. That position changed. My parents had every reason to quit on me but they didn't. God gave me the chance to form a real relationship with my dad when I turned to god and for that I'm grateful. I see him in a different way and talk to him weekly.

There is a memory sometimes that makes me cry once in a great while. I was not in kindergarten yet. My dad was an army recruiter always gone for weeks sometimes months. It was the only attempt I ever remember of him bringing me a physical gift. An action figure. He came home and gave it to me and I remember the excitement in his eyes drain away when I got upset because I already had the same action figure.

It was mainly my mom that raised the 3 kids...but my dad always worked non stop and never did much for himself with money earned. It just went towards us in the end.

Whatever anger I had stored in my youth towards him has drained away...and the only memory I think about is with the action figure. Strange how perceptions change.

But as for my initial post. I see both sides of god in my parents in what they needed to be in order for me to be what I am. I just don't think god is going to let me experience that comfort of knowing because there is important work ahead in my life. God has many instruments for different purposes. I've accepted that if god puts a wall in front of me then the walls there for a reason if it doesn't come down through prayer and continuous effort. I think I'd become less effective to my purpose if alll certainty was given and god knows this.

Thanks for the advice to all of u though
 
J

jeremyPJ

Guest
#9
#9
I know from my experiences that God is a loving, forgiving God. He also has a sense of humor. I know that one very well myself.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#10
#10
crosstweed said:
You obviously are feeling that something is fishy in your life and you're acknowledging it. That's good. Now, are you willing to deal with the problem?

https://archive.org/details/SamuelLoganBrengle-TheWayOfHoliness-SalvationArmyCommissioner-

The Way of Holiness - You read this short little book all the way through, and I highly doubt you will come away without the answers you're looking for. Follow the link and the chapters are listed on the bar to the right. I've linked you to chapter one. This little old book was the catalyst for me getting really and truly saved, even though getting saved wasn't technically the premise of the book, but rather the sin nature inside of humans.
Click to expand...
I've read a little of that link. This isn't this Christians need to be perfect on earth nonsense, is it? I hope not, because what a burden of guilt for those Christians who can't work towards their salvation. :p
 
C

crosstweed

Guest
#11
#11
Tintin said:
I've read a little of that link. This isn't this Christians need to be perfect on earth nonsense, is it? I hope not, because what a burden of guilt for those Christians who can't work towards their salvation. :p
Click to expand...
Perfect in the sense of being motivated by love of God, yes. Has nothing to do with works. Read the book.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.