PRIDE
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I don't think that Peter is the only one who has learning to do in this area. What the Americans don't understand about Peter is that in other places (like the Netherlands where he is from) no one would accuse him of being "condemning" or "unloving."
Here's what many Americans need to realize--a DETACHED tone is NOT THE SAME as a condescending tone, or an unloving tone, or an uncaring tone, or a superior tone. Americans are very emotive in their communication. They are constantly reaching for the emotions beneath the words. When someone impartially delivers information, they reach for emotions AND FIND NONE, so they PRESUME the negative. Instead of thinking, "Oh, this was delivered in a detached tone," Americans will think, "How negative! Oh this person thinks they are superior!"
Other cultures place a value on delivering information impartially. Especially if this information is controversial or difficult. The detached tone shows RESPECT in those cultures because it doesn't try to FORCE EMOTION onto others along with the information. So here's what Peter has done: He has delivered information and his opinion flatly and impartially. While he has his view, he has not tried to manipulate anyone emotionally by inflating his words with emotional tags that would push or pull people one way or another. In other words, he has been showing us all respect.
I'm not sure that it's our job (or even a particularly loving job) to train Peter how to communicate in a way that makes US feel comfortable. Maybe OUR job is to really listen to what he's saying and not make presumptions about the underlying emotions. Peter already does an incredible job of communicating IN A SECOND LANGUAGE. His English skills are on par with native English speakers. I'm not sure why we must insist that he somehow absorbs the cultural norms of America ON TOP OF what he already does. Why can't we BEND IN HIS DIRECTION?
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psalm6819
Guest
E
ember
Guest
I'm not sure that it's our job (or even a particularly loving job) to train Peter how to communicate in a way that makes US feel comfortable. Maybe OUR job is to really listen to what he's saying and not make presumptions about the underlying emotions. Peter already does an incredible job of communicating IN A SECOND LANGUAGE. His English skills are on par with native English speakers. I'm not sure why we must insist that he somehow absorbs the cultural norms of America ON TOP OF what he already does. Why can't we BEND IN HIS DIRECTION?
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Right
Anyone up for calling Mary a blasphemer or a non-believer or ignorant or not really saved?
Just sayin Mary...if you want us to be more like the object of your attention here, then you may have to grow accustomed to some very nasty posts
But no worries...we will feign ignorance of the harm done and apologize to the nth degree and then go out and do it all again
what your innocent (not) posts is mostly psycho-fluff and nasty comments to people who don't respect the fluff
It has nothing to do with a culture barrier
Blasphemer does not have a different meaning from one person to an American...when mr righteous calls someone a blasphemer he is not thinking of windmills
Neither does slander and trying to stir up trouble
I think we have a very good understanding of the supposed culture barrier
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Right
Anyone up for calling Mary a blasphemer or a non-believer or ignorant or not really saved?
Just sayin Mary...if you want us to be more like the object of your attention here, then you may have to grow accustomed to some very nasty posts
But no worries...we will feign ignorance of the harm done and apologize to the nth degree and then go out and do it all again
what your innocent (not) posts is mostly psycho-fluff and nasty comments to people who don't respect the fluff
It has nothing to do with a culture barrier
Blasphemer does not have a different meaning from one person to an American...when mr righteous calls someone a blasphemer he is not thinking of windmills
Neither does slander and trying to stir up trouble
I think we have a very good understanding of the supposed culture barrier
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Within my first fifteen minutes of being on this site I was told by someone that I wasn't really a Christian and I was going to hell. I was unharmed by this comment. The reason I was unharmed was because the person who said these things was wrong. I knew this person was wrong. While I was rather surprised by the quickness of it, I wasn't offended. Because I knew the person was wrong. It didn't make me question my faith or belief system. They were wrong.
If a person tells me my eyes are brown and not blue, I don't get mad at that person. I might presume they have trouble distinguishing color, or they didn't look at me long enough to get the facts right, but it's no cause for anger.
I made no claims about Peter being perfect. I only wrote about the observations I've made about reactions to Peter on various boards. I thought it was appropriate considering this board was about the issue of pride. Many people are too proud to bend in the direction of another BECAUSE IT CAUSES DISCOMFORT. They would prefer to remain comfortable and demand that the world and all the people in it shape themselves to suit them. I find this not in keeping with the basic tenets of Christianity.
A lot of people claim to be Christians living in grace that God gave them freely, but also prefer to hold sin over the heads of their brothers and sisters. They experience continual forgiveness for our sins, but they prefer to keep count of the sins of others. I find this not in keeping with the basic tenets of Christianity.
A lot of people claim to need a Savior but then they travel in groups and peck away at a person that they feel deserves it. They delight in the support they receive from those who approve of this behavior. I find this not in keeping with the basic tenets of Christianity.
A lot of people depend on the loving and gentle nature of God, but when someone sins against them, they want to lay down the hammer. Someone says something that hurts their feelings or rubs them the wrong way and instead of being adult, rational, loving, and PRIVATE about it, they prefer to shame the person in public. I find this not in keeping with the basic tenets of Christianity.
People have proffered their opinions about pride on these boards. I've given mine as well. All of my remarks align with my principles and understanding of the basic tenets of Christianity. If someone wants to claim Jesus and believe that they can hold others in unforgiveness, refuse to bend in the direction of another, shame others publicly, and still glorify God, then I think they should continue to do so and see how it all works out for them.
But I wasn't insultedI guess insults can be thrown, but if there's no receiver, its of no effect?
Like water on a ducks back, is how I compare it.
Mary, its okay. Peter belongs to us and we love him. We wished him earlier to speak to us in love, not in the harshness and condemning way that some others speak which stirs up some and then all of us lose. And you know what? Because Peter loves us too, he humbled himself to our request.
Some still stir up their flesh and are still stuck there and we hope they will stop so we all can be helped. Agreement comes SO easily if we commit to walking and talking with each other in love, in Christ, instead of getting so angry and vicious and devouring one another!
You are right Mary. Some go from thread to thread to attack a certain person. It's awful and we can't stop them. But we CAN make sure to not revile when reviled and to bless when we are cursed.
The truth is that we are not fighting against flesh and blood in this matter.
Some still stir up their flesh and are still stuck there and we hope they will stop so we all can be helped. Agreement comes SO easily if we commit to walking and talking with each other in love, in Christ, instead of getting so angry and vicious and devouring one another!
You are right Mary. Some go from thread to thread to attack a certain person. It's awful and we can't stop them. But we CAN make sure to not revile when reviled and to bless when we are cursed.
The truth is that we are not fighting against flesh and blood in this matter.
When i searched on pride, i came to biblegateway where 1 Corinthians 5 has title Paul Condemns Spiritual Pride (NLT). Here even sexual immorality is equated with pride.
5 I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you—something that even pagans don’t do. I am told that a man in your church is living in sin with his stepmother.[a] 2 You are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame. And you should remove this man from your fellowship.
3 Even though I am not with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit.[b] And as though I were there, I have already passed judgment on this man 4 in the name of the Lord Jesus. You must call a meeting of the church.[c] I will be present with you in spirit, and so will the power of our Lord Jesus. 5 Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed[d]and he himself[e] will be saved on the day the Lord[f] returns...
Also What does v. 5 mean? How is one thrown over... so his sinful nature will be destroyed?
5 I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you—something that even pagans don’t do. I am told that a man in your church is living in sin with his stepmother.[a] 2 You are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame. And you should remove this man from your fellowship.
3 Even though I am not with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit.[b] And as though I were there, I have already passed judgment on this man 4 in the name of the Lord Jesus. You must call a meeting of the church.[c] I will be present with you in spirit, and so will the power of our Lord Jesus. 5 Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed[d]and he himself[e] will be saved on the day the Lord[f] returns...
Also What does v. 5 mean? How is one thrown over... so his sinful nature will be destroyed?
IMO if people take sides on an issue, there will surely be pride present in it, for each side will compete to some degree, & you can't have competition without pride.
Perhaps that's one of the reasons the disciples were told if the people don't receive you, dust off your feet & leave them. What, I wonder would happen if we didn't? Would a desire to win those people turn into a competition to over come them with our message instead of just preaching it & allow the Holy Spirit to do the work? The harder we try to do it, the more we do it on our own. I've done this before in rewriting my sermons to "add" more "information", "biblical facts". It's very easy to turn a sermon into a court case where winning is everything..... been there, done that. Pride is at the core of it. Just as someone already said, when we do what we want instead of doing what God wants, it's because of pride. How true that is.
Perhaps that's one of the reasons the disciples were told if the people don't receive you, dust off your feet & leave them. What, I wonder would happen if we didn't? Would a desire to win those people turn into a competition to over come them with our message instead of just preaching it & allow the Holy Spirit to do the work? The harder we try to do it, the more we do it on our own. I've done this before in rewriting my sermons to "add" more "information", "biblical facts". It's very easy to turn a sermon into a court case where winning is everything..... been there, done that. Pride is at the core of it. Just as someone already said, when we do what we want instead of doing what God wants, it's because of pride. How true that is.
Pride makes you think that you are better to bow down to love those that hates you; it prevents you from humbling yourselves before the Lord.
It's called ex communication/Church discipline. Sort of cut off from fellowship the offender but hopefully done with the hope of restoring him/her back.
Today, this is not as effective in large urban areas as the offender just Moseys on over to the next Church...but God knows how to continue the discipline.
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pottersclay
Guest
I don't have any issues with pride like some do, I guess I'm a natural at being humble if there is such a thing..I'm pretty proud of that.
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ember
Guest
Within my first fifteen minutes of being on this site I was told by someone that I wasn't really a Christian and I was going to hell.
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Sorry about that...Mary
Well, your friend there that you are defending has said that to me multiple times
Why?
Cause I don't agree with him
Well shucks Berta....some folks is just downright ornery
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Sorry about that...Mary
Well, your friend there that you are defending has said that to me multiple times
Why?
Cause I don't agree with him
Well shucks Berta....some folks is just downright ornery
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didymos
Guest
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Ultimatum77
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Yup...
Lol that squirrel from ice age on the billboard pretty much sums up the reaction..... lol
Well guys.
Blasphemy is claiming something that is a nature or attribute of God and putting on yourself.
So Jesus was called a blasphemer for claiming to be the messiah.
Now people who say they are little gods, with command authority, that is blasphemy. Now unless you are claiming such authority, I would not call you a blasphemer. Now somehow people can say whatever they like as a "christian" or spirit led and it is wrong to simply state the obvious, false teachers, prophets etc. will blaspheme.
Now Ember I have never called not a christian. I have wondered how someone could reject love flowing from their heart, and claim to be a christian. I was accused of having a religious evil spirit, and when talking to the Lord, actually talking to a demon.
Now it does bother me that simple theology clearly taught in scripture is torn up, and suggested as evil.
Now I agree there are legalists who appear to have faith, but seem bound by rules and conforming, but this is not sin.
The problem is the sin they do in their pride, the hurt words, the violence, the affairs, the miss-use of money, the anger and hatred, jealousy, envy, fear that dominate their lives which lead to sinful actions is the problem.
Now if you see sin in my approach, please correct me. But if I stand on the word of God and in the Holy Spirit, then you should listen to what the Lord is saying through His word.
Too many preach a gospel of failure, of being a slave to sin, of falling always to carnal desires, and never being able to live in purity. Their hearts are not clean, and they have no concept of the Lord rebuilding them within, straightening out the emotions and experiences that have hurt and destroyed them from their past transforming them into a glorious, pure righteous people of promise. Unless you obey, and start actually forgiving, loving, caring, this is all picture language.
There is a reason why after the sermon on the mount Jesus says, if you put these words into action you are building your house upon a rock.
I used to think this was a picture. I now know when the emotional storms of life come, you do stand fast, your family does hold together, you do survive, and you do not fall into a pile of anxious lost individuals with no internal strength.
But to take the first step you have to admit you are a sinner in need of help.
Blasphemy is claiming something that is a nature or attribute of God and putting on yourself.
So Jesus was called a blasphemer for claiming to be the messiah.
Now people who say they are little gods, with command authority, that is blasphemy. Now unless you are claiming such authority, I would not call you a blasphemer. Now somehow people can say whatever they like as a "christian" or spirit led and it is wrong to simply state the obvious, false teachers, prophets etc. will blaspheme.
Now Ember I have never called not a christian. I have wondered how someone could reject love flowing from their heart, and claim to be a christian. I was accused of having a religious evil spirit, and when talking to the Lord, actually talking to a demon.
Now it does bother me that simple theology clearly taught in scripture is torn up, and suggested as evil.
Now I agree there are legalists who appear to have faith, but seem bound by rules and conforming, but this is not sin.
The problem is the sin they do in their pride, the hurt words, the violence, the affairs, the miss-use of money, the anger and hatred, jealousy, envy, fear that dominate their lives which lead to sinful actions is the problem.
Now if you see sin in my approach, please correct me. But if I stand on the word of God and in the Holy Spirit, then you should listen to what the Lord is saying through His word.
Too many preach a gospel of failure, of being a slave to sin, of falling always to carnal desires, and never being able to live in purity. Their hearts are not clean, and they have no concept of the Lord rebuilding them within, straightening out the emotions and experiences that have hurt and destroyed them from their past transforming them into a glorious, pure righteous people of promise. Unless you obey, and start actually forgiving, loving, caring, this is all picture language.
There is a reason why after the sermon on the mount Jesus says, if you put these words into action you are building your house upon a rock.
I used to think this was a picture. I now know when the emotional storms of life come, you do stand fast, your family does hold together, you do survive, and you do not fall into a pile of anxious lost individuals with no internal strength.
But to take the first step you have to admit you are a sinner in need of help.
D
