Self Examination: Do you understand the Gospel?

[Beloved777]

Of course he means within our spirit, but that's not my point. My point is: Our NIV Bible has 15 complete verses just gone! Why? Have a great night.

 

[ForthAngel]

I think my question suits this board since it involves understanding what grace is.

Do you think that preaching hellfire results in people who convert for the sake of fire insurance?

Some have mentioned in here that they had rocky journey to God. Maybe they converted at a young age and then fell away for a time until their life fell apart and they came back to God.

I'm curious about these kinds of stories. I find that many of them stem from a conversion based on fear. People say "yes" to God because they fear hellfire. It takes an enormous amount of energy to sustain fear. Over time, people forget to be afraid of hellfire, so they move onto sinning. When they eventually return to God, it's usually with enough wisdom and experience to appreciate the LOVE of Jesus and to love Him in return.

So, back to my original question. Do you think the "hellfire" angle is really the best angle for seed-sowing? I obviously have my own opinions. I think it's much more useful to show people Jesus and have them fall in love with who Jesus is. However, I know my experience is limited, so I'm curious about the stories of others and how this fits in with our understanding of grace.

I guess what I mean is, should we focus on what grace saves us from, or more on what grace saves us FOR (and for whom)?

Of course hell should be preached. Is it not God's judgment on the unrepentant sinner? How can they understand grace if they are taught they can be secure nestled in their sins? Repentance is part of the Gospel. Some here define it as a simple change of mind. While this is part of it, repentance is always mentioned in scripture alongside sin. What does God save us from? He saves us from his own wrath. Half the Gospel is not the Gospel at all. Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Don't fear the one who can destroy your body, but the one who can destroy both body and soul in hell. If a person doesn't realize that they are a sinner before the eyes of a holy, angry, wrathful God, then what need have they of his grace other than to continue in sin without a care? Why did Jesus die? Was it not to save us from the wrath of God and reconcile us to him?

 

[Beloved777]

...reading the bible with your natural mind leads to all kinds of skewed thoughts and reasonings...and then "traditions" are taught as if they are true

I may get a lot of negative attention for this, but Just so you know, God doesn't want us to disengage our minds while reading the Bible. We are actually to do the opposite. See (Acts 17:11)

 

[Grace777x70]

I understand where you are coming from....Acts17:11..I love being a Berean and searching out the scriptures whether the things being taught are really from God.....the mind does come into play ...but only under certain conditions..

Renewal of the mind is NOT faith and reason but faith and revelation. We don't throw out reason but we get our reasoning from the enlightened manifestation of the revelation of Jesus and our loving, good Father by the Holy Spirit within us.

Christians can think carnally which means with their fleshly unrenewed mind on subjects.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

Romans 8:5-6 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,

1 Corinthians 2:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

Ephesians 4:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Lot's of great scriptures about the mind...this one is my favorite.Colossians 3:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

I may get a lot of negative attention for this, but Just so you know, God doesn't want us to disengage our minds while reading the Bible. We are actually to do the opposite. See (Acts 17:11)

 

[ladylynn]

No..the "hell-fire" approach is not the gospel of the grace of Christ. Now, in saying that..some people do get saved for the "fire insurance'...

John 3:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

We have the ministry of reconciliation now..

2 Corinthians 5:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

God has always been for us and although I don't understand everything there is to know about God A-Z, I'm totally convinced that salvation is all His idea. That we are totally incapable of making the awesome wise choice of choosing Him above ourselves, He steps in and sent His Son Jesus. Somehow we are introduced to the GOOD NEWS that God so loved the world. His Word penetrates our hearts and something occurs.

How is it so many people here and all over Christendom can actually believe they are that wise? Just take a good look at yourself when you are stressed to the end of your last nerve. life DOES bring with it exhausting powerful negative issues like illness, ugliness, hatred, murder, seething anger and rage something each one of us could be effected by at any time. (at least at some point of our lives) If a human is pushed to the end of his or her limits., they will crack. How many people have really been pushed to their limits? And those who have been to those "outer limits" I've noticed eat much humble pie for the rest of their lives and HAPPY to do so!

Grace is the answer for our problem of unworthiness and lack of what it takes to be good. We don't come to God and believe in His answer because we are good and wise. We actually come in need for someone to rescue us. And we need rescuing after that for the rest of our lives. How nutty is it for Christians to think otherwise. (!!!!!!!!!!)

I've noticed since finding out about what grace means, that there is great opposition from other Christians. They are appalled when they see their brothers and sisters upholding the grace message. As if we should not CLING to the grace offered and paid for by Jesus. As if we should not / must not USE it to stay in step with Christ.

The truth of the matter is we very much need to cling to Jesus and we need to have a reason to believe we have a blood bought right to do it. When we become a Christian., we are still learning how to relate to God. It's the beginning of a long and wonderful relationship. One that is done the same way it started., by grace through faith. If Christians do not use the grace provided they are cutting themselves off at their knees.

I Talked with some Christians last night in the Bible study room and was again surprised at the number of good Christians who truly believed they could deny Christ and go to hell once they were born again. As if Jesus died for a -hope so- salvation that hoped we held on until the end. As if we could in any way be strong enough to hold it all together in our lives.

We have the grace of God given as a gift and need to use it every day of our lives. His unmerited love and favor which means His love is self motivated not us-motivated. We are flexible as weak humans and we change. God is not flexible and He never changes. There IS NO turning with Him. He commits to us and we are His bought with a price no longer our own.

The ONLY way to relate to God is through His Son's imputed righteousness. We are loved as a gift and from then on the only way we learn to love others is how we learn we are graciously loved by God. Can't give it unless we know how to TAKE IT because we now have been given the ministry of reconciliation.

 

[Beloved777]

I understand where you are coming from....Acts17:11..I love being a Berean and searching out the scriptures whether the things being taught are really from God.....the mind does come into play ...but only under certain conditions..

Renewal of the mind is NOT faith and reason but faith and revelation. We don't throw out reason but we get our reasoning from the enlightened manifestation of the revelation of Jesus and our loving, good Father by the Holy Spirit within us.

Christians can think carnally which means with their fleshly unrenewed mind on subjects.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

Romans 8:5-6 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,

1 Corinthians 2:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

Ephesians 4:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Lot's of great scriptures about the mind...this one is my favorite.Colossians 3:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

I agree with every scripture you just quoted, but no! The mind should come into play under all conditions. For instance, there is a practice "Christians" take part in where they're taught to just close their eyes, think about nothing until "God speaks to them." Then a thought pops into their mind, and they say "oh, God just told me such and such. No! This isn't Christian worship. It's pure mysticism. Can The Holy Spirit speak to us? Sure. He usually will put someone on your heart to pray for or visit, but if you want to hear God speak, I guarantee you'll hear him speak when you read his Word. We have to be careful when people say, "God told me such and such." We live in a time where more people think of God as their servant rather than their Lord. this is the kind of stuff they say: "What can God do for me today?" "What is God's purpose for my life?" You know what? God had a wonderful purpose for Paul's life, but he spent most of his believing life in chains. Paul was eventually beheaded for his faith. Steven was stoned for his faith. John was exiled for his faith, and Peter was crucified upside down. I could go on and on.

 

[Grace777x70]

okie dokie.....I don't "mind" you having your own opinion on any subject........have a great night!...

I agree with every scripture you just quoted, but no! The mind should come into play under all conditions. For instance, there is a practice "Christians" take part in where they're taught to just close their eyes, think about nothing until "God speaks to them." Then a thought pops into their mind, and they say "oh, God just told me such and such. No! This isn't Christian worship. It's pure mysticism. Can The Holy Spirit speak to us? Sure. He usually will put someone on your heart to pray for or visit, but if you want to hear God speak, I guarantee you'll hear him speak when you read his Word. We have to be careful when people say, "God told me such and such." We live in a time where more people think of God as their servant rather than their Lord. this is the kind of stuff they say: "What can God do for me today?" "What is God's purpose for my life?" You know what? God had a wonderful purpose for Paul's life, but he spent most of his believing life in chains. Paul was eventually beheaded for his faith. Steven was stoned for his faith. John was exiled for his faith, and Peter was crucified upside down. I could go on and on.

 

[vic1980]

Tautology at its finest.

I am very glad this topic has calm down in the Bible discussion forum

 

[Breanna]

Do i understand the gospel ???? no i don't