Are You Pro-Life?

[KimPetras]

So what do you suggest is an appropriate punishment? Life in prison? Make the tax-payers pay for a murderer's existence for the rest of his life? And what about the victim's family and friends? What do they get out of this arrangement? Don't forget their innocence. How is justice being served for the victim's family/friends? Oh boy, they get to know that their own taxes are being spent to support this murderer in prison. There's justice for ya.

Just wondering what your suggestions are.

I'm glad you brought up the tax payers paying for the alleged murder instead of [cheaply] executing him/her.

"Cases without the death penalty cost $740,000, while cases where the death penalty is sought cost $1.26 million. Maintaining each death row prisoner costs taxpayers $90,000 more per year than a prisoner in general population."

source: www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty


Furthermore, what about the tax payers who don't want to support murder (the premeditative taking of innocent life) via capital punishment? Some may feel they committed murder by proxy if the state wrongfully executes someone.

Should tax payer money be distributed to institutions that administer abortions? What about people who see the sanctity of life in the unborn and don't want to support by proxy their abominations from their taxes?

 

[Mitspa]

Ro 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Clearly the New Testament upholds capital punishment ....Im sure Paul ..understood redemption.

 

[Dino246]

Let me break it down in the hopes of clarifying it for you: ...

8. Murderers are sinful humans, made in the image of God, and able to be redeemed by God.

I see your point regarding treating murderers differently than other sinners. We as Christians should uphold the sanctity of life and the potential for redemption, having been redeemed ourselves. However, I don't think we should toss out Romans 13:4, which is New Covenant scripture. It doesn't make sense for the authorities to bear the sword if there is no rightful place to use it. I'm not trying to argue, just to make sense of the scripture.

And, to KimPetras, Proverbs 17:15. I'd like to say that it mentions bribery, but it doesn't.

 

[Mitspa]

I'm glad you brought up the tax payers paying for the alleged murder instead of [cheaply] executing him/her.

"Cases without the death penalty cost $740,000, while cases where the death penalty is sought cost $1.26 million. Maintaining each death row prisoner costs taxpayers $90,000 more per year than a prisoner in general population. There are 714 inmates on California's death row."

source: www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty


Furthermore, what about the tax payers who don't want to support murder (the premeditative taking of innocent life) via capital punishment? Some may feel they committed murder by proxy if the state wrongfully executes someone.

Should tax payer money be distributed to institutions that administer abortions? What about people who see the sanctity of life in the unborn and don't want to support by proxy their abominations from their taxes?

Its so expensive ..because they litigate every issue again and again...this works against your argument that they are somehow not being fair in convicting these killers.

 

[Stone5524]

I thought you meant abortion at first and I was psyched because it was at the same moment I was listening to the song called Rapture by HURT (acoustic session EMI).

People probably think badly about it because its questionable in terms of its aggressiveness and lyrics. But the guy wrote it apparently after reading about a woman who killed her child because "god" told her to. The guy said the main point the guy was making was not to place yourself equal to Jesus in the giving or taking of life. Its not a christian song...but its one of my favorites.

Anyway...I don't have much of an answer to the above...I just try to stay the course of my own path. I think u ask an important question...I just don't know the answer.

Make sure its the acoustic EMI version!

 

[KimPetras]

Its so expensive ..because they litigate every issue again and again...this works against your argument that they are somehow not being fair in convicting these killers.

How does this work against my argument? My argument is that if it was thrown out, there wouldn't be a need to have all these appeals.

First it's, "it's cheaper to execute than pay to have them live in our prisons." Then when that is debunked it's, "well, it's because of litigation." Are you recommending just executing immediately upon sentencing to cut cost down? I'm not getting your point.

 

[KimPetras]

Ro 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Clearly the New Testament upholds capital punishment ....Im sure Paul ..understood redemption.

This was already addressed earlier in the thread. You're implying (implicit) that the bible is saying "yes to capital punishment." I can understand why you'd interpret the scripture to mean what you think it means.

Genesis 16:3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.

One could reasonably conclude that God is ordaining polygamy. I don't interpret it that way at all though. Yes, God acknowledges his prophet Abraham, considered to be the most blessed individual in the history of mankind, had multiple wives but it doesn't necessarily mean this is ordained by God.

Christ himself was executed/crucified. His capital punishment was legitimate on a civil level, but do you think God ordained the murder of our Saviour Jesus Christ?

 

[Mitspa]

How does this work against my argument? My argument is that if it was thrown out, there wouldn't be a need to have all these appeals.

First it's, "it's cheaper to execute than pay to have them live in our prisons." Then when that is debunked it's, "well, it's because of litigation." Are you recommending just executing immediately upon sentencing to cut cost down? I'm not getting your point.

Your first argument was that there are SO MANY innocent folks being convicted of murder..that somehow the system was not being fair ... This proves the system is going out of its way to be fair on these kind of cases.

 

[jennymae]

Its so expensive ..because they litigate every issue again and again...this works against your argument that they are somehow not being fair in convicting these killers.

Well, looks like litigation could be avoided by some mitigation...

 

[Mitspa]

This was already addressed earlier in the thread. You're implying (implicit) that the bible is saying "yes to capital punishment." I can understand why you'd interpret the scripture to mean what you think it means.

Genesis 16:3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.

One could reasonably conclude that God is ordaining polygamy. I don't interpret it that way at all though. Yes, God acknowledges his prophet Abraham, considered to be the most blessed individual in the history of mankind, had multiple wives but it doesn't necessarily mean this is ordained by God.

Young lady..the bible and the truth don't change because you ignore it ... The fact is that God makes clear He upholds capital punishment in the New Testament ... Now that is a fact of the NEW TESTAMENT... do you understand the difference between the Old and New testament?

 

[KimPetras]

Your first argument was that there are SO MANY innocent folks being convicted of murder..that somehow the system was not being fair ... This proves the system is going out of its way to be fair on these kind of cases.

Yes... but a fellow sister was mistaken that it's more expensive to keep a prisoner alive in prison than it is to execute. My point then was that she is mistaken. I cited my source that it's incredibly more expensive to execute than it is to put in prison for life. You somehow think that because litigation after the sentencing is expensive, it huts my case but fail to explain how...

 

[KimPetras]

Well, looks like litigation could be avoided by some mitigation...

lol Exactly! Not only do you side with caution, but you still deliver justice and punish the person. Lets just hope the person was really the guilty party.

 

[Mitspa]

Well, looks like litigation could be avoided by some mitigation...

Look... im not for capital punishment ..if I could vote against it? I would ...but its not a important issue in our society compared to other issues and its clearly upheld in scripture.

 

[KimPetras]

Young lady..the bible and the truth don't change because you ignore it ... The fact is that God makes clear He upholds capital punishment in the New Testament ... Now that is a fact of the NEW TESTAMENT... do you understand the difference between the Old and New testament?

Yes. Do you? I've already responded towards the same scripture. You aren't responding back to it, at least not in a fruitful discussion.

 

[Dino246]

This was already addressed earlier in the thread. You're implying (implicit) that the bible is saying "yes to capital punishment." I can understand why you'd interpret the scripture to mean what you think it means.

Genesis 16:3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.

One could reasonably conclude that God is ordaining polygamy. I don't interpret it that way at all though. Yes, God acknowledges his prophet Abraham, considered to be the most blessed individual in the history of mankind, had multiple wives but it doesn't necessarily mean this is ordained by God.

Did you read my response to this earlier? It doesn't look like it. And, to your most recent post, do you recognize that Romans 13:4 is New Testament? You seem to be avoiding that part.

 

[Mitspa]

lol Exactly! Not only do you side with caution, but you still deliver justice and punish the person. Lets just hope the person was really the guilty party.

Sure lets hope and work to have as good a justice system as we can...do you even understand our system here? What your from Russia?

 

[KimPetras]

Look... im not for capital punishment ..if I could vote against it? I would ...but its not a important issue in our society compared to other issues and its clearly upheld in scripture.

It is upheld in the old covenant. But would you argue that the new covenant doesn't, at the very least, show a slight opposition to it?

Also, no one is saying this is priority number one in the world. We're just having a discussion about it.

 

[Mitspa]

oops sorry Germany?

 

[KimPetras]

Sure lets hope and work to have as good a justice system as we can...do you even understand our system here? What your from Russia?

I'm not from Russia...

Yes, I know how your judicial system works... especially when it comes to capital punishment.

 

[Mitspa]

It is upheld in the old covenant. But would you argue that the new covenant doesn't, at the very least, show a slight opposition to it?

Also, no one is saying this is priority number one in the world. We're just having a discussion about it.

I have already shown you in clear and evident words from the New Testament ..that God upholds capital punishment ... You only have to read and its evident.

And I think a honest discussion is fair.... I have tried to present the other side of your opinion