Revelation Timeline
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Calm down... There is no cause for you to be defensive... I am not trying to prove anything -- I am only trying to show you something... 
Go back and very carefully read posts #297, #303, and #311 -- you may have misunderstood what I was saying... ?
Go back and very carefully read posts #297, #303, and #311 -- you may have misunderstood what I was saying... ?
And if you check the OT histories, you will find that false worship can, and did happen... in the temple of God in Jerusalem. The Ezekiel 8 & 9 chapters are given to especially point that out by our Heavenly Father. So let's not go there as if that phrase "temple of God" involving a built temple in Jerusalem is unable to become desolate by false worship.
G
You still seem to be not understanding what I am saying.
"Let me try this one more last time..."
What I am saying is --- in the 'grammar of the language' -- in the context of Revelation 11:1 -- the Holy Word of God is very explicitly declaring that the particular-and-specific 'temple' that it is referring to in Revelation 11:1 -- IS -- and, cannot be anything else but -- a God-sanctioned temple.
The Jews can call something "the temple of God", and it does not make it so - it is not necessarily true. However, if the Holy Word of God calls something "the temple of God" -- "you can bet your life, and feel comfortable doing it" -- that it - IS - a God-sanctioned temple.
I am saying that the Holy Word of God is telling us that the temple being referred to in Revelation 11:1 is a God-sanctioned temple.
In other words, that it is a real, actual, bonifide, God-approved temple -- in the same way that the first two temples were.
And, we know that there will be no more God-sanctioned [ built-by-humans physical-structure ] temples.
Therefore, the 'temple' in Revelation 11:1 can not be referring to a future third temple built by the Jews.
That is what I am saying -- and, that is all that I am saying.
"Let me try this one more last time..."
What I am saying is --- in the 'grammar of the language' -- in the context of Revelation 11:1 -- the Holy Word of God is very explicitly declaring that the particular-and-specific 'temple' that it is referring to in Revelation 11:1 -- IS -- and, cannot be anything else but -- a God-sanctioned temple.
The Jews can call something "the temple of God", and it does not make it so - it is not necessarily true. However, if the Holy Word of God calls something "the temple of God" -- "you can bet your life, and feel comfortable doing it" -- that it - IS - a God-sanctioned temple.
I am saying that the Holy Word of God is telling us that the temple being referred to in Revelation 11:1 is a God-sanctioned temple.
In other words, that it is a real, actual, bonifide, God-approved temple -- in the same way that the first two temples were.
And, we know that there will be no more God-sanctioned [ built-by-humans physical-structure ] temples.
Therefore, the 'temple' in Revelation 11:1 can not be referring to a future third temple built by the Jews.
That is what I am saying -- and, that is all that I am saying.
You still seem to be not understanding what I am saying.
"Let me try this one more last time..."
What I am saying is --- in the 'grammar of the language' -- in the context of Revelation 11:1 -- the Holy Word of God is very explicitly declaring that the particular-and-specific 'temple' that it is referring to in Revelation 11:1 -- IS -- and, cannot be anything else but -- a God-sanctioned temple.
The Jews can call something "the temple of God", and it does not make it so - it is not necessarily true. However, if the Holy Word of God calls something "the temple of God" -- "you can bet your life, and feel comfortable doing it" -- that it - IS - a God-sanctioned temple.
I am saying that the Holy Word of God is telling us that the temple being referred to in Revelation 11:1 is a God-sanctioned temple.
In other words, that it is a real, actual, bonifide, God-approved temple -- in the same way that the first two temples were.
And, we know that there will be no more God-sanctioned [ built-by-humans physical-structure ] temples.
Therefore, the 'temple' in Revelation 11:1 can not be referring to a future third temple built by the Jews.
That is what I am saying -- and, that is all that I am saying.
"Let me try this one more last time..."
What I am saying is --- in the 'grammar of the language' -- in the context of Revelation 11:1 -- the Holy Word of God is very explicitly declaring that the particular-and-specific 'temple' that it is referring to in Revelation 11:1 -- IS -- and, cannot be anything else but -- a God-sanctioned temple.
The Jews can call something "the temple of God", and it does not make it so - it is not necessarily true. However, if the Holy Word of God calls something "the temple of God" -- "you can bet your life, and feel comfortable doing it" -- that it - IS - a God-sanctioned temple.
I am saying that the Holy Word of God is telling us that the temple being referred to in Revelation 11:1 is a God-sanctioned temple.
In other words, that it is a real, actual, bonifide, God-approved temple -- in the same way that the first two temples were.
And, we know that there will be no more God-sanctioned [ built-by-humans physical-structure ] temples.
Therefore, the 'temple' in Revelation 11:1 can not be referring to a future third temple built by the Jews.
That is what I am saying -- and, that is all that I am saying.
2 Thess 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV
Did you not notice where the True Temple of God is in that time of Rev.11?
Rev 11:19
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
KJV
Why would Rev.11 include two different examples of "the temple of God"?
Simple. It's because the temple of God in Rev.11:1 is NOT the same temple of God in Rev.11:19. If that's not enough to show you that the temple in Rev.11:1-2 is an earthly temple made with hands that will involve false worship by the coming Antichrist, then you just won't understand it until it happens.
Gary is correct, DP is incorrect.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, [SUP]8 [/SUP]but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.
What caused this war to break out in heaven?
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple.
Where is the Temple of God in the above verse?
Where is God?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
Where are these souls located?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.
Where are these souls located?
Where is God's temple in the above?
"...and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God"
If this happened in heaven, would it cause a war to break out?
“Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there.
Are people measured or counted?
and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.
Was John able to count them?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.
What is outside God's Temple in Heaven?
Why is John not to count those Gentiles who are treading his Holy City on earth?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
Did God create witnesses to Himself on earth to try to save those on earth?
What is/are God's witnesses on earth?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.
and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.
What is a lampstand?
What is an Olive Tree?
If there are Two Lampstands then there are Two Churches. Do we have two churches? Anyone ever hear of the Greek Orthodox Church or Church of the East? How about the Roman Catholic Church or Church of the West?
How about two Olive Trees?
Psalm 52:8
But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God; I trust in the mercy of God forever and ever.
Jeremiah 11:16
The Lord called your name, Green Olive Tree, Lovely and of Good Fruit. With the noise of a great tumult He has kindled fire on it, And its branches are broken.
So what are the two Olive Trees? What does the next verse say?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]“For the Lord of hosts, who planted you, has pronounced doom against you for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke Me to anger in offering incense to Baal.”
Could the 2 Olive Trees be the House of Judah and the House of Israel?
TWO WITNESSES ARE:
THE TWO CHURCHES (from which all churches come)
TWO OLIVE TREES are Judah and Israel
Are these witnesses to God on Earth?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies.
How do these witnesses convict sinners of their wrong deeds? Do they literally torch them with fire from their mouths and burn them up or do they do this?
Jeremiah 5:14
Therefore thus says the Lord God of hosts: “Because you speak this word, Behold, I will make My words in your mouth fire, And this people wood, And it shall devour them.
Who wages war with God's witnesses on earth?
the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.
God's witnesses are killed. Again, who kills them and wants to see them dead? What peoples from what religion hate the Jews and Christians most? But not just them.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt...
Spiritually called? See that? When it says spiritually called, think Spiritually and not literally. Therefore it is NOT the literal city where Christ was killed, it is the spiritual "city."
What is the spirit of Sodom?
What is the spirit of Egypt?
Green Olive Trees were mentioned above by Jeremiah. Here's the passage again.
Jeremiah 11:16
The Lord called your name, Green Olive Tree, Lovely and of Good Fruit. With the noise of a great tumult He has kindled fire on it, And its branches are broken.
Does anyone see any similarities between the above and this?
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The first angel sounded: And hail and fire followed, mingled with blood, and they were thrown to the earth. And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.
Revelation 11 is spiritual my friends. ALL OF IT.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, [SUP]8 [/SUP]but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.
What caused this war to break out in heaven?
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple.
Where is the Temple of God in the above verse?
Where is God?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
Where are these souls located?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.
Where are these souls located?
Where is God's temple in the above?
"...and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God"
If this happened in heaven, would it cause a war to break out?
“Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there.
Are people measured or counted?
and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.
Was John able to count them?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.
What is outside God's Temple in Heaven?
Why is John not to count those Gentiles who are treading his Holy City on earth?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
Did God create witnesses to Himself on earth to try to save those on earth?
What is/are God's witnesses on earth?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.
and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.
What is a lampstand?
What is an Olive Tree?
If there are Two Lampstands then there are Two Churches. Do we have two churches? Anyone ever hear of the Greek Orthodox Church or Church of the East? How about the Roman Catholic Church or Church of the West?
How about two Olive Trees?
Psalm 52:8
But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God; I trust in the mercy of God forever and ever.
Jeremiah 11:16
The Lord called your name, Green Olive Tree, Lovely and of Good Fruit. With the noise of a great tumult He has kindled fire on it, And its branches are broken.
So what are the two Olive Trees? What does the next verse say?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]“For the Lord of hosts, who planted you, has pronounced doom against you for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke Me to anger in offering incense to Baal.”
Could the 2 Olive Trees be the House of Judah and the House of Israel?
TWO WITNESSES ARE:
THE TWO CHURCHES (from which all churches come)
TWO OLIVE TREES are Judah and Israel
Are these witnesses to God on Earth?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies.
How do these witnesses convict sinners of their wrong deeds? Do they literally torch them with fire from their mouths and burn them up or do they do this?
Jeremiah 5:14
Therefore thus says the Lord God of hosts: “Because you speak this word, Behold, I will make My words in your mouth fire, And this people wood, And it shall devour them.
Who wages war with God's witnesses on earth?
the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.
God's witnesses are killed. Again, who kills them and wants to see them dead? What peoples from what religion hate the Jews and Christians most? But not just them.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt...
Spiritually called? See that? When it says spiritually called, think Spiritually and not literally. Therefore it is NOT the literal city where Christ was killed, it is the spiritual "city."
What is the spirit of Sodom?
What is the spirit of Egypt?
Green Olive Trees were mentioned above by Jeremiah. Here's the passage again.
Jeremiah 11:16
The Lord called your name, Green Olive Tree, Lovely and of Good Fruit. With the noise of a great tumult He has kindled fire on it, And its branches are broken.
Does anyone see any similarities between the above and this?
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The first angel sounded: And hail and fire followed, mingled with blood, and they were thrown to the earth. And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.
Revelation 11 is spiritual my friends. ALL OF IT.
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Here are the saved:
and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.
Here are the unsaved:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.
Just as there is God's Kingdom, there is Satan's Kingdom.
There is the Bible, there is the Qur'an.
John is shown both. One group is part of the Kingdom, the Temple of God
The other are Gentiles, treading the Holy City outside in the courtyard.
and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.
Here are the unsaved:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.
Just as there is God's Kingdom, there is Satan's Kingdom.
There is the Bible, there is the Qur'an.
John is shown both. One group is part of the Kingdom, the Temple of God
The other are Gentiles, treading the Holy City outside in the courtyard.
G
I am not saying that the 'temple' of Revelation 11:1 and the 'temple' of Revelation 11:19 are the same -- I do not believe that...
I believe that Revelation 11:1-2, up to the colon in verse 2, is a real-time present-tense instruction to John -- made with regard to a real-time present-tense temple. I also believe that it is referring to a physical-structure temple on earth, and not the "heavenly" temple referred to in verse 19. I believe that the 'grammar of the language' of these verses explicitly tell us these things plainly.
Revelation 11:
[SUP]1[/SUP] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: { present-tense - "right now" - a reed was actually given to John } and the angel stood, saying, Rise, { an instruction - "right now" - "get up and do this" - John was actually told to do something "right now" } and measure the temple of God, { a currently-existing God-sanctioned temple that John would actually be able to "measure" with the reed he was given - "right then and there" } and the altar, and them that worship therein. [SUP]2[/SUP] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: { I am thinking that it has to be a temple on earth. } and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. { a prophetic mention about a future occurrence ( from John's point-of-view ) -- also notice that it is talking about the city, not specifically the temple in particular }
"Do you believe that the 'man of sin' will sit in a God-sanctioned temple?"
According to 2 Thessalonians 2:4, he does -- right?
Yet - it cannot be future.
What does that leave?
I believe that Revelation 11:1-2, up to the colon in verse 2, is a real-time present-tense instruction to John -- made with regard to a real-time present-tense temple. I also believe that it is referring to a physical-structure temple on earth, and not the "heavenly" temple referred to in verse 19. I believe that the 'grammar of the language' of these verses explicitly tell us these things plainly.
Revelation 11:
[SUP]1[/SUP] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: { present-tense - "right now" - a reed was actually given to John } and the angel stood, saying, Rise, { an instruction - "right now" - "get up and do this" - John was actually told to do something "right now" } and measure the temple of God, { a currently-existing God-sanctioned temple that John would actually be able to "measure" with the reed he was given - "right then and there" } and the altar, and them that worship therein. [SUP]2[/SUP] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: { I am thinking that it has to be a temple on earth. } and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. { a prophetic mention about a future occurrence ( from John's point-of-view ) -- also notice that it is talking about the city, not specifically the temple in particular }
"Do you believe that the 'man of sin' will sit in a God-sanctioned temple?"
According to 2 Thessalonians 2:4, he does -- right?
Yet - it cannot be future.
What does that leave?
You're just all over... the place with that, pulling verses out of the context of their Chapters.
The "temple of God" Apostle Paul stated the "man of sin" will come to sit in is ON THE EARTH and it is not the spiritual temple of Christ's Body either, for that can NEVER be corrupted by a false one. That temple is a standing physical temple in Jerusalem for the very end of this world, prior to Christ's second coming.
The "temple of God" John is told to go measure in Rev.11:1-2 is that one of 2 Thess.2:4 that the "man of sin" comes to sit in, on earth. In NO Scripture in God's Word is the outer court NOT immediately attached to the temple complex.
The "temple of God" in Rev.11:19 at the end of the Chapter, which has the ark of the covenant, is in Heaven with God, and is a reference to God's House where Jesus said He goes to prepare a place for His elect, that His Father's House has "many mansions" (John 14). That is the Ezekiel temple in Ezek.40 forward that will come down to this earth during Christ's future "thousand years" reign, ON EARTH.
The "temple of God" Apostle Paul stated the "man of sin" will come to sit in is ON THE EARTH and it is not the spiritual temple of Christ's Body either, for that can NEVER be corrupted by a false one. That temple is a standing physical temple in Jerusalem for the very end of this world, prior to Christ's second coming.
The "temple of God" John is told to go measure in Rev.11:1-2 is that one of 2 Thess.2:4 that the "man of sin" comes to sit in, on earth. In NO Scripture in God's Word is the outer court NOT immediately attached to the temple complex.
The "temple of God" in Rev.11:19 at the end of the Chapter, which has the ark of the covenant, is in Heaven with God, and is a reference to God's House where Jesus said He goes to prepare a place for His elect, that His Father's House has "many mansions" (John 14). That is the Ezekiel temple in Ezek.40 forward that will come down to this earth during Christ's future "thousand years" reign, ON EARTH.
As usual, men's doctrines always leave out relevant Scripture...
John's vision of the "great multitude" of Rev.7 is an AFTER THE TRIBULATION VIEW. It is a Millennial view after Christ's return:
Rev 7:13-17
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
KJV
Those parts in bold are Millennial timing, the "thousand years" of Rev.20. They are NOT about a pre-trib rapture.
That's what timing the below Scripture is about too:
Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV
John's vision of the "great multitude" of Rev.7 is an AFTER THE TRIBULATION VIEW. It is a Millennial view after Christ's return:
Rev 7:13-17
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
KJV
Those parts in bold are Millennial timing, the "thousand years" of Rev.20. They are NOT about a pre-trib rapture.
That's what timing the below Scripture is about too:
Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV
It is a vision of the great tribulation saints who will be killed during the great tribulation period for keeping the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and for not worshiping the beast, his image and for not receiving his mark. These are the same group that are seen being resurrected in Rev.20:6.
I am not saying that the 'temple' of Revelation 11:1 and the 'temple' of Revelation 11:19 are the same -- I do not believe that...
I believe that Revelation 11:1-2, up to the colon in verse 2, is a real-time present-tense instruction to John -- made with regard to a real-time present-tense temple. I also believe that it is referring to a physical-structure temple on earth, and not the "heavenly" temple referred to in verse 19. I believe that the 'grammar of the language' of these verses explicitly tell us these things plainly.
Revelation 11:
[SUP]1[/SUP] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: { present-tense - "right now" - a reed was actually given to John } and the angel stood, saying, Rise, { an instruction - "right now" - "get up and do this" - John was actually told to do something "right now" } and measure the temple of God, { a currently-existing God-sanctioned temple that John would actually be able to "measure" with the reed he was given - "right then and there" } and the altar, and them that worship therein. [SUP]2[/SUP] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: { I am thinking that it has to be a temple on earth. } and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. { a prophetic mention about a future occurrence ( from John's point-of-view ) -- also notice that it is talking about the city, not specifically the temple in particular }
"Do you believe that the 'man of sin' will sit in a God-sanctioned temple?"
According to 2 Thessalonians 2:4, he does -- right?
Yet - it cannot be future.
What does that leave?
I believe that Revelation 11:1-2, up to the colon in verse 2, is a real-time present-tense instruction to John -- made with regard to a real-time present-tense temple. I also believe that it is referring to a physical-structure temple on earth, and not the "heavenly" temple referred to in verse 19. I believe that the 'grammar of the language' of these verses explicitly tell us these things plainly.
Revelation 11:
[SUP]1[/SUP] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: { present-tense - "right now" - a reed was actually given to John } and the angel stood, saying, Rise, { an instruction - "right now" - "get up and do this" - John was actually told to do something "right now" } and measure the temple of God, { a currently-existing God-sanctioned temple that John would actually be able to "measure" with the reed he was given - "right then and there" } and the altar, and them that worship therein. [SUP]2[/SUP] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: { I am thinking that it has to be a temple on earth. } and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. { a prophetic mention about a future occurrence ( from John's point-of-view ) -- also notice that it is talking about the city, not specifically the temple in particular }
"Do you believe that the 'man of sin' will sit in a God-sanctioned temple?"
According to 2 Thessalonians 2:4, he does -- right?
Yet - it cannot be future.
What does that leave?
I thought I quoted the Zechariah 6 Scripture to you before about THE BRANCH (Jesus) being Who will build God's temple when He comes, which will be the Ezekiel temple layout.
Zech 6:12-13
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
KJV
No king of Israel upon a throne in Jerusalem has ever been both king and priest upon a throne. That's about our Lord Jesus when He comes.
Matt 24:1-3
24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
KJV
That underlined part Christ's disciples understood Him to be speaking of the end of this world at His second coming. That is about the destruction... of the "temple of God" that will exist in Jerusalem which the coming "man of sin" is to sit in and play God, deceiving the whole world. (some treat those Matt.24 verses as being past history with the destruction of the 2nd temple by the Romans in 70 A.D., but that was only a pattern for this final fulfillment at the end of this world when Jesus comes).
Daniel 9 & 11 reveals the "vile person" coming to power in Jerusalem by flattering and peace, and ends the daily sacrifice and oblation in the middle of the Dan.9:27 "one week". Those sacrifices and oblation are about the required sacrifices per the old covenant worship and involve a standing temple in Jerusalem. The orthodox Jews today already have the materials ready to build that next temple in Jerusalem, even with stones cut and ready to set in place upon the Temple Mount. But they are being held back because of the political situation in Jerusalem and controls by the U.N.
For those sacrifices and the oblation to exist again in Jerusalem, it is pointing to their rebuilding another temple for the end. Then that "vile person" after the "league" he makes there, when 1260 days have passed, will end those sacrifices and instead place the idol abomination in place of sacrifices, and demand all to bow in false worship, which then begins the actual trib time of the latter 1260 days, the same timing God's two witnesses will appear in Jerusalem and prophesy against that working per Rev.11.
So, who... builds this next temple on earth to 'try' and fulfill that Zech.6 Scripture in the minds of the orthodox Jews? It won't be our Lord Jesus, for we know He will build God's true Temple for His Millennium reign when He comes later to destroy that "man of sin" with "the brightness of His coming."(2 Thess.2:8). And surely I don't have to tell you that the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem today still reject our Lord Jesus as Messiah; they are still waiting for Messiah's coming.Nowhere in God's Word are we told with a direct statement that the coming Antichrist will build the next temple in order to try and pass himself off as Messaih with fulfilling that Zech.6 Scripture; however, that is exactly what those above events are showing for the end when you put it all together.
When our Lord Jesus was crucified and The Father raised Him, He became the one Perfect Sacrifice for sin, for one and all time. So will the orthodox Jews' building this next temple to start up the old covenant worship again not... be an abomination to God? Yes, it will be, which is why when Jesus returns, His return will involve the destruction of this next temple built, not one stone will be standing on top of another there when He does that.
Finally then, IF this next temple were a God-sanctioned temple, as you suggest, that would be an act to treating the old covenant as still being in effect, instead of The New Covenant through The Blood of Jesus Christ. This is especially why I disagree this next temple built will be a God-sanctioned temple.
K
The problem is we can not read and take Revelation in a consecutive order !!!
In order to get more insight to the timing of the 1st Resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6 we have to go back to Revelation 14:12-20.
It clearly shows the 1st Resurrection takes place before God's Wrath is poured out, therefore the GT can not be God's Wrath !!!
In order to get more insight to the timing of the 1st Resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6 we have to go back to Revelation 14:12-20.
It clearly shows the 1st Resurrection takes place before God's Wrath is poured out, therefore the GT can not be God's Wrath !!!
You do realize don't you that pre-trib teaches those of the 144,000 represent their "tribulation saints" idea, and that the "great multitude" represents the raptured Church prior to the trib, per their view?
That Rev.7 Chapter is about God's sealing of His servants for the tribulation, before it starts. That's why in Rev.9 we're shown about those already having been sealed by the 5th Trumpet:
Rev 9:3-5
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
KJV
That's specifying two groups existing in that time, those not sealed, and then those that are sealed by God.
The 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe begins the actual tribulation timing, which are the events from Rev.9:12 to Rev.11:15.
That Rev.7 Chapter is about God's sealing of His servants for the tribulation, before it starts. That's why in Rev.9 we're shown about those already having been sealed by the 5th Trumpet:
Rev 9:3-5
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
KJV
That's specifying two groups existing in that time, those not sealed, and then those that are sealed by God.
The 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe begins the actual tribulation timing, which are the events from Rev.9:12 to Rev.11:15.
G
2 Thessalonians 2:
[SUP]3[/SUP] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [SUP]4[/SUP] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
What does scripture say?
[SUP]3[/SUP] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [SUP]4[/SUP] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
What does scripture say?
G
So -- you are saying that the 'man of sin' will sit in a temple built by Jesus - AFTER the second coming of Christ?????
As in:
~ First - Jesus returns.
~ Then - Jesus builds a temple.
~ Then - the 'man of sin' sits in that temple, claiming to be God?
What about this?:
2 Thessalonians 2:
[SUP]3[/SUP] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, { the second coming of Christ } except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [SUP]4[/SUP] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
As in:
~ First - Jesus returns.
~ Then - Jesus builds a temple.
~ Then - the 'man of sin' sits in that temple, claiming to be God?
What about this?:
2 Thessalonians 2:
[SUP]3[/SUP] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, { the second coming of Christ } except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [SUP]4[/SUP] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
"Now I know that you are not really reading my posts..."
I have said no such thing. In fact, I have said the opposite:
I have said no such thing. In fact, I have said the opposite:
But your belief there won't be another temple built in Jerusalem does not fit prophecy in God's Word for the end of this world, nor even for Christ's future Millennial reign, for the Ezekiel 40 forward layout involves a temple on earth during that time of Christ's future reign, and the Zech.6 proclaims He will build it.
Moreover, the throne of David, which our Lord Jesus is to inherit per God's Word, is not in Heaven. David's throne is an earthly throne, and our Lord Jesus is to return to claim that throne, on earth. Some by spiritualizing have tried to move that throne to Heaven, even saying our Lord Jesus has already inherited it, when that is not so per what God's Word declares. This is another reason why that Zech.6 Scripture hasn't been fulfilled yet today by our Lord Jesus, THE BRANCH.