BOAST IN GOD’S GRACE FOR YOU

[ladylynn]

again, love makes up one of the attributes of God. He also judges, hates and condemns. Your theology is skewed.

Because we are IN Christ: God's righteous judgment against sin no longer applies to us. We are sons because Jesus took God's holy righteous judgment against sin for us when He died on the Cross and rose again for us..

But The righteousness of God in Christ DOES apply to us and the love and grace of God (unmerited love and favor) does apply to us so we always talk about what Jesus has done for us because He loves us with the kind of love that is motivated by God not us and what we do or don't do.

That is the grace of God and the way we are to love others., not based on what they do but by God's love. We love God (and others) because He first loved us. Grace teaches us how to love., without expecting anything in return. We love because He loved., and then the joy of the Lord is our strength.

It's the love of God that constrains us. 1 Cor. 13 explains it. Without love we are nothing but sounded brass. The love of God is the BEST theology and it is what we are called to as sons. There is NO substitute. The love of God in Christ. God sooo loved, HE GAVE His only Son. God's love is His motivation.

 

[ladylynn]

Jesus isn't talking about roasting marshmallows here

​I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish that it had been kindled already! Luke 12:49​

Again and yet again and yet again to tell you the WHOLE Bible is for us, but the WHOLE Bible isn't written "to" us. We are responsible to rightly divide the who and the what and the where.

Jesus has already come as Savior of the world. But He WILL return AGAIN the 2nd time to the earth to be Judge. But not now., NOW He is showing us how gracious God is and we should look at what He tells us to look at., that He is dealing with us according to His grace and mercy... NOT according to our sins NOW. (if you hear His voice harden NOT your hearts)

But LATER He will deal with people according to their sin by judging those unbelievers., NOT His children who He paid for off the slave market of sin when He died on the Cross for us. We were bought with a price, we are no longer our own.

So to focus on Christ the JUDGE when now He is the SAVIOR is not Biblical. He is not our judge, He is our Savior and the Good Shepherd who gave His life for the sheep.

Do you see Him as your Savior OR do you see Him as your Judge? Those who preach grace see Him as Savior. We will return WITH Him when He judges. We are on the side of the One who is all in all.

 

[ladylynn]

INSPIRTINTRUTH

pretty much my observation regarding Esau as a type

We know God had the Israelites destroy whole nations...BUT when speaking to Abraham, God revealed the suffering of His people in Egypt ...He stated that the sin or wickedness (I'm paraphrasing..sorry) had to reach...basically...the zenith of its life or fruition in the people currently in the land God would give to them

Looking at the entirety of Scripture we get a picture of physical reality illustrating spiritual principals

Love...hate...what are these concepts to God who is HOLY regarding either?

My objections are based in the disregard for proper exegesis and analytical study that results in folks hurling Bible verses at others like machine gun fire

Its another thing entirely to set out scripture providing the broader principal as you did...hopefully without prejudice because I think that we all could benefit from so doing

"hurling Bible verses at others like machine gun fire" Exactly Ember. Your reference here reminded me of a cartoon picture someone posted of a bunch of black suited in their Sunday best religious guys using the Bible to beat people up with. Wish I could find it since a picture at times can say 1000 words.

The Gospel is the GOOD NEWS
What is going on here with the posting gleefully of God hates hates hates, kills kills kills.,?? That is NOT the message JESUS brought. We are to be ambassadors of the Gospel. We are to be in the business of reconciliation....... not condemnation. The more I read these threads the more thankful I am for those who talk about the grace of God in Christ.

Only God can judge righteously and in a holy way. Not people. And yet here people are trying to paint this picture of God that is contrary to the picture Jesus has given. God is not dealing with us according to our sin now in this age of grace. And thankfully for us we have been reconciled to God through Christ. And have been given the ministry of reconciliation. I do appreciate your back bone ember. Keep posting!!!

 

[BenFTW]

Gee, how honored I am by having you single me out even though I haven't posted in a few hours.
My point was God's grace is not synonymous with Jesus. It was on account of His Life, Death and Resurrection that He can bestow grace on those of us who lived under the WRATH of God.

Romans 1:18 KJVS
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

John 3:36 KJVS
[36] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Also, there is more to our walk than the finished work of Christ. I commune with Him for example and not a concept of grace.

It is a concept of grace, it is directly related to grace. The only reason you can fellowship with God is because of God's grace, in that Jesus died on the cross to pay the penalty of your sins (I.e, by grace, undeserved/unmerited) and deal with sin once and for all so that you may be reconciled to God. Your way to the Father is through Jesus Christ and that was done by God's grace through faith.

PS: You weren't singled out, I replied to others as well. The last paragraph isn't just towards you, but others as well. You know for a fact that no one is putting forth a message of grace at the exclusion of Jesus. It is nigh impossible.

 

[PeterJens]

But LATER He will deal with people according to their sin by judging those unbelievers.

The problem with theology, is different contributors believe different things about is unbelievers sin dealt with or not.
Here we have sin still being held against an unbeliever.

At the drop of a hat another group will say, no sin has been dealt with. It seems a little confusion here. Either sin matters or it does not. If this version of events is this unclear why should anything else be taken seriously from these preachers.

An unbeliever commits rape. Where does he stand before the Lord?
A christian commits rape. Where does he stand before the Lord?

The language used by some is so superficial, it is as if these issues are just stupid, not real issues at all. I mean what is rape between friends?

Like the issue of Hell. Original sin means even babies should burn in torment forever as punishment for being called human.
That sounds really just, because the guilt and sin people have in daring to be born is so high, it torments a righteous, holy soul. No. It is just insane comic strip morality, without thought, care, understanding or heart.

 

[Grace777x70]

And yet the scriptures say to fix our hope completely on the grace that is being brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Grace and Jesus are synonymous.

1 Peter 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit,fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

There is no greater revelation then Jesus Christ. The whole Christian life is based on Christ's finished work. You cannot have grace without Jesus...and you cannot have Jesus without grace.

Now I suppose every time some one sings " Amazing grace"...we are bowing down to our idol. What religious malice filled foolishness this is.

...the gospel is call the gospel of grace....the gospel of Christ....the gospel of the word of His grace.....the gospel of God..

...the Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9 ) and the Spirit of grace. ( Heb. 10:29 )

The gospel of grace is the gospel of Jesus (Acts 20:24 2 Th 1:8).

We are justified by grace (Rom 3:24); we are justified by Jesus (Rom 4:25).

God’s grace offers salvation to all (Tit 2:11); Jesus is the Savior of all (1 Tim 4:10).

All the blessings of God come to us by grace alone and all of them are found in Jesus (Eph 1:3).

Grace is a teacher (Tit 2:12); Jesus is a teacher (Matt 8:19).

Grace reigns (Rom 5:21); Jesus reigns (1 Cor 15:25).

When the Galatians cut themselves off from Christ, they cut themselves off from grace (Gal 5:4).

Here are two Biblical blessings that say the same thing: “The Lord be with you” and “grace be with you” (2 Tim 4:22, Phm 1:25).

2 Corinthians 13:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.


Grace and Jesus are synonymous.

 

[PeterJens]

"God's love is not based on our performance."

This idea sounds good, because Christ is worthy and we are sinners, but there is a flaw here, a fundamental, 100% floor.

If God could not turn us into His people, holy, pure, righteous, filled with His love and truth, from the heart, there would be no point to God showing His love and heart to us. If there was no response, we would be worthless, only fit to be burnt up.

So our performance or response 100% matters. Not in the way we measure it, but in the way the Lord measures it.
If you are stuck down a well with no way out, ofcourse you are lost forever. When a rope appears to enable you to climb out, you still have to climb, it takes effort. Did you save yourself alone? No. It was a team effort where the provision of being saved had to be provided, but you had to put in the effort. There is not one parable where the believer does not have to respond or do something as a result of provision.

There is no stretched limousine that appears and all you have to do is get in and enjoy the champagne. But the health, wealth gospel differs, and this is their picture.

The difference between doing things because of rules and doing things because you love from the heart is night and day.

I know many do not know Jesus like this, and think doing things from the heart is romantic nonsense. But to those with ears to hear, this is what Jesus is saying, speak from your heart.

Jesus replied: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
Matt 22:37

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Matt 6:21

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Matt 5:8

This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.
Matt 18:35

Jesus is about the heart, who you are in totality. Anyone who has missed this has missed Jesus.

 

[Grace777x70]

I'm singing this song no matter how much it offends people......if this song offends you...there is something seriously wrong with your heart...

[video=youtube;Bn5zk3yCRr0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn5zk3yCRr0[/video]

 

[ladylynn]

The problem with theology, is different contributors believe different things about is unbelievers sin dealt with or not.
Here we have sin still being held against an unbeliever.

At the drop of a hat another group will say, no sin has been dealt with. It seems a little confusion here. Either sin matters or it does not. If this version of events is this unclear why should anything else be taken seriously from these preachers.

An unbeliever commits rape. Where does he stand before the Lord?
A christian commits rape. Where does he stand before the Lord?

The language used by some is so superficial, it is as if these issues are just stupid, not real issues at all. I mean what is rape between friends?

Like the issue of Hell. Original sin means even babies should burn in torment forever as punishment for being called human.
That sounds really just, because the guilt and sin people have in daring to be born is so high, it torments a righteous, holy soul. No. It is just insane comic strip morality, without thought, care, understanding or heart.

what are you trying to say?????

 

[gb9]

what are you trying to say?????

he is trying to say you are saved by works. that what all the wordiness is about. talking around it, trying to hide it in there somewhere, but works salvation is the message.

 

[PeterJens]

what are you trying to say?????[/QUOTE]

Ladylynn. Grace8 introduced the idea all sin is dealt with at the cross, for the whole world so noone is judged for sin just good works.

Grace777 & Ben were happy to go along with this. They tend to emphasis the concept of future sin is forgiven so as you sin you are forgiven and repent.

Some talk lightly about theology and the options involved. It is why denominations came about, so people know which group on these issues they stand in. Unfortunately even though people are "Spirit" led people are actually believing different things, because "Spirit" inspiration is often not enough.

Now gb9 wants to suggest I am talking about works salvation. From his perspective any dependent response by a believer is works, so that is correct.

But for me works salvation is saying works justify you, rather than is the fruit of love in your heart.
But even this language, love in your heart, for some is alien. They do not accept emotions are part of speaking about God.

It is impossible to say you love God from the heart without emotions, so I can conclude they do not know what they are saying.

 

[gb9]

" from his perspective any dependent response by a believer is works"

so, our salvation is dependent on our works. that is what you just said. thank you peter for proving my point. your belief is our salvation is dependent on works. thank you again.

 

[PeterJens]

Hate - I do find this an interesting subject. God hates sin because it destroys His work. He hates the rebellion in people, but this rebellion makes them worthless if they 100% identify with it. I wonder if anyone until judgement or death, is truly 100% in rebellion.

If I take people at their centre are made in the image of God, with love at work, no matter how hidden and repressed, I am not sure God can truly hate individuals, just sinful behaviour. If you take hatred in terms of judgment, desiring to destroy and stop those who sin and rebel, though still blessing both the evil and the good, you have a real tension.

But without redemption all is lost, because there is nothing possible to save, it is worthless, only fit for the fire.

It is odd believing in original sin, and the impossibility of walking in righteousness in this world yet being all lovey dovey about accepting sinners into heaven. It is just so inconsistent. It is again the magic wand approach to spirituality, and not getting to grips with what is sin, and what walking in purity could mean.

If Jesus thought purity was impossible, why say those with a pure heart will see God?

 

[PeterJens]

" from his perspective any dependent response by a believer is works"

so, our salvation is dependent on our works. that is what you just said. thank you peter for proving my point. your belief is our salvation is dependent on works. thank you again.

I got to laugh. To a universalist, doing anything is works. You believe in robotic salvation, where we are tools in Gods hands. But you live is a world of free choice, every single say, every single moment, but somehow God does not give us free will, or teach us to respond and take him seriously

 

[gb9]

I got to laugh. To a universalist, doing anything is works. You believe in robotic salvation, where we are tools in Gods hands. But you live is a world of free choice, every single say, every single moment, but somehow God does not give us free will, or teach us to respond and take him seriously

no peter, it is very simple :salvation is a gift. you do nothing to earn it or keep it except believe. that whosoever BELIEVES in him might be saved. so, we either accept the offer, or reject it. once we accept it by faith, it is ours unless we GIVE IT UP.

that is it. we are not saved today, not saved tomorrow, the day after, don't know yet. but once we accept by faith the GIFT, it is ours forever unless we choose not to have it anymore. good works follows this. not KEEPS it, as you wrongfully say.

 

[ladylynn]

"God's love is not based on our performance."

This idea sounds good, because Christ is worthy and we are sinners, but there is a flaw here, a fundamental, 100% floor.

Of course it sounds good, it's the Gospel. Christ is worthy and we need One who is worthy to be our Savior. Jesus IS worthy.,we ; are not. 2 Cor.5:21

For He (God) made Him (Jesus Christ) who knew no sin to be sin for us, that WE might become the righteousness of God in HIM (Jesus Christ).

If God could not turn us into His people, holy, pure, righteous, filled with His love and truth, from the heart, there would be no point to God showing His love and heart to us. If there was no response, we would be worthless, only fit to be burnt up.

The response is to "believe" that is what is required. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. We are lost without Jesus. But He made us righteous and worthy IN Him. Amen! Like the song says "I once was lost and now I'm found" Amen.

So our performance or response 100% matters. Not in the way we measure it, but in the way the Lord measures it.
If you are stuck down a well with no way out, ofcourse you are lost forever. When a rope appears to enable you to climb out, you still have to climb, it takes effort. Did you save yourself alone? No. It was a team effort where the provision of being saved had to be provided, but you had to put in the effort. There is not one parable where the believer does not have to respond or do something as a result of provision.

What are you saying Peter?? Jesus did more than make an effort. We were stuck in a world of sin and Jesus came and got us out. We could not get ourselves out. God's provision for us is His Son Jesus. Salvation is NOT a team effort. Jesus did it all ., none of us all of HIM.


There is no stretched limousine that appears and all you have to do is get in and enjoy the champagne. But the health, wealth gospel differs, and this is their picture.

I see no mention of a stretch limousine or champagne in the Bible but I do see Jesus who was willing to die in our place "by His stripes we are healed." He who knew no sin became sin for us., We are not righteous because we do right. We became righteous because of what Jesus did for us at the cross.

The difference between doing things because of rules and doing things because you love from the heart is night and day.

Exactly!!! Jesus fulfilled the law perfectly from the heart. Only His heart is pure. Then He gave us a new heart and we are to follow Him now with the new heart He gave us. He said "My sheep hear My voice and follow Me." Amen!!!

I know many do not know Jesus like this, and think doing things from the heart is romantic nonsense. But to those with ears to hear, this is what Jesus is saying, speak from your heart.

Not sure you know about what people are thinking here OR saying for that matter (or typing) since you keep mis interpreting what we say. Many here are speaking about the gospel of grace and truth that Jesus died to give us. And you keep accusing us of desiring to ride in limos and drinking champagne. I don't even drink alcohol and never saw the logic in riding in a limousine.

Nothing earthly "romantic" being a Christian. Our righteousness is not earned, it is freely given by Christ. Paul said "I do not frustrate the grace (unmerited favor) of God; for if righteousness came by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."


Jesus replied: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
Matt 22:37

No one can do this apart from - Christ in you...the hope of glory. if people depend on their own good works to get them to do the 10 commandments to become righteous, then Jesus died for nothing. That's what in vain means ....for nothing.


For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Matt 6:21

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Matt 5:8

This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.
Matt 18:35

Jesus is about the heart, who you are in totality. Anyone who has missed this has missed Jesus.

If you don't get a NEW heart it doesn't matter what you do. We love Him because He first loved us.
Not the other way around. Anyone who misses that misses the good news - the Gospel that Jesus brought.

John 1:17 "For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."

 

[PeterJens]

Hey guys, it is hard you saying I miss-represent you.

Obedience, walking, purity, righteousness are all actions. All actions are done by people.
In a very logical sense, do you believe believers walk righteously, in purity, in holiness or is it just imputed on top of sinful lives, without any change?

Or if there is change, how and why?

It appears you do not hold to morality, or any standards? Or is it you do walk righteously but never know it?

Time and again rather than answering these questions, you go off on a dig about works salvation, which actually is not the point. The question is what is a christian walk for you?

 

[PeterJens]

We were stuck in a world of sin and Jesus came and got us out.

I like the vision. Jesus got us out of a world of sin. You sin, you are lost. You believe Jesus did what, and suddenly you are different. Because you believed Jesus was a man, was a good guy, gave a nice example of love what exactly?

 

[PeterJens]

unless we GIVE IT UP.
unless we choose not to have it anymore.

Good to know you are not a OSAS. Again this is a difference between various contributors here.
One says unless I believe OSAS I show I am not saved and am a legalist. He is on a mission to root out all evil legalists.

 

[ladylynn]

what are you trying to say?????[/QUOTE]

Ladylynn. Grace8 introduced the idea all sin is dealt with at the cross, for the whole world so noone is judged for sin just good works.

Where else do you think sin was dealt with Peter?? Read John 3:16... For God so LOVED the world that He gave His only begotten Son., ....



Grace777 & Ben were happy to go along with this. They tend to emphasis the concept of future sin is forgiven so as you sin you are forgiven and repent.

Of course they go along with this., so do I , so does anyone who wants to be saved Peter. Jesus died on the cross to accomplish a FINISHED WORK.,He paid for the sins of the world. But not all will accept His sacrifice and many will reject the love and grace offered (unmerited favor) and try to go up some other way. There IS NO OTHER WAY.

Some talk lightly about theology and the options involved. It is why denominations came about, so people know which group on these issues they stand in. Unfortunately even though people are "Spirit" led people are actually believing different things, because "Spirit" inspiration is often not enough.

?? No one I see here on this thread is talking lightly about the Bible. They are very clear about Jesus being the Way the Truth and the Life. As long as we are on this planet we will not all agree about everything. But we agree that Jesus is the ONLY Way to God.

You better get used to the fact Peter., not everyone sees life from your eyes. But when we learn to follow the Holy Spirit we will be lead by the same Spirit and be able to love one another., and give grace to one another the way Christ gave it to us. The mark of a true spirit lead person is the ability to love others as Christ loved them.

Now gb9 wants to suggest I am talking about works salvation. From his perspective any dependent response by a believer is works, so that is correct.

?? "Believing" is how we respond to the gift of eternal life offered by Jesus Christ, it is not a "work" Peter.

But for me works salvation is saying works justify you, rather than is the fruit of love in your heart.
But even this language, love in your heart, for some is alien. They do not accept emotions are part of speaking about God.

??? Only Christ can justify the sinner and cause the sinner to be saved. After the sinner becomes a son they are then able to show the fruits of the Spirit.., not before. We do the works after we are born again...after we become new creations in Christ Jesus. It's not about emotions, it's about Jesus finished work on the cross.

It is impossible to say you love God from the heart without emotions, so I can conclude they do not know what they are saying.

?? God gave us emotions but we do not depend on them. We depend on the Word of God and the Holy Spirit ....not our feelings. It is not impossible to love God when God has first loved us and gave us His Spirit. That is the only way we can love God - because He first loved us.,and made us sons and gave us His Spirit., just like the Bible says. Peter, your "conclusions" are inconclusive...