Rapture= false teaching

[miktre]

That's right and you're the right guy to teach the whole picture. God needs you as a mouthpiece. He can't speak to people in accordance to His schedule.

Thats like saying we need not learn the Bible at all. He did speak to us, its called the Holy Bible.

You are right though God said he will tear them from the ratpure teachers arms.

20Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
21Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

 

[oopsies]

He did speak to us, its called the Holy Bible.

Yes, there you go. He did speak to us and it's through His Bible. Not through you.

 

[miktre]

Yes, there you go. He did speak to us and it's through His Bible. Not through you.

Thats why I provide much scripture and the rapture teachers have virtually none. God gave us Pastors to feed the sheep and I have a very good one. He sticks to the word, this is wisdom.

 

[oopsies]

Thats why I provide much scripture and the rapture teachers have virtually none. God gave us Pastors to feed the sheep and I have a very good one. He sticks to the word, this is wisdom.

I provided a link that leads to Scripture. Then I stopped providing. Why? Because I know that the readers will go and read it. But what comes of the reading is not contingent on how many times I keep on providing Scripture. You, on the other hand, believe that the more often you provide the Scripture, the greater the chances that the reader will turn around. That's the wrong thinking. You presume that what you do (that is, continuously providing Scripture over and over again) will help God change someone. As much as you don't believe it, but God doesn't need your help. God has never needed our help to do anything.

 

[Thaddaeus]

Thats why I provide much scripture and the rapture teachers have virtually none. God gave us Pastors to feed the sheep and I have a very good one. He sticks to the word, this is wisdom.

well ask your pastor this for me, if you could answer this it may help me,

1th 4:13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.1th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.1th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.1th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:1th 4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.1th 4:18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

I believe that within 1 Thes. 4:13-18 states within its self that this is a separate time from the last day judgement in that the last day Judgement says
Re 20:13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.Re 20:14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


or either this judgement

Re 20:11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.Re 20:12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Notice that rev, says that they are raised to be judged, But please take note here The ones that are raised in1 Thes 4, are already judged to be in Christ, and then the ones in Christ are raised " and the dead in Christ shall rise first" they are already judged to be in Chirst, but the ones on the last day are raised then judged, so either Paul was confused when He was inspired to write 1Thes or maybe John was confused when he saw rev 20, or those that don't teach a prib-trib rapture are confused on what scripture actually teaches let's see either paul was wrong or John didn't see what he said he saw , or some people are blinded by following the Blind, Yeah I cast my vote on some people are blinded to the truth by following the blind teaching of man , I would be very interesting to see how for preacher would explain that the Judged was raised at one event at the other event which is supposed to be to same event the dead was raised then Judged???????? then Jesus said on that last day that he separated the sheep from the Goats he didn't say he separated them before He raised them. but on that judgement day

 

[miktre]

I provided a link that leads to Scripture. Then I stopped providing. Why? Because I know that the readers will go and read it. But what comes of the reading is not contingent on how many times I keep on providing Scripture. You, on the other hand, believe that the more often you provide the Scripture, the greater the chances that the reader will turn around. That's the wrong thinking. You presume that what you do (that is, continuously providing Scripture over and over again) will help God change someone. As much as you don't believe it, but God doesn't need your help. God has never needed our help to do anything.

Providing an abundance of scripture is different than posting the same scripture over and over, its called getting confirmation in the word. God didn't need Moses either, but He choosers throughout the Bible to use men to teach and carry out His will. I'm surprised you've never picked up on that.

 

[greatkraw]

i notice you did respond to my post that Daniel is a type of the church

 

[miktre]

well ask your pastor this for me, if you could answer this it may help me,

1th 4:13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.1th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.1th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.1th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:1th 4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.1th 4:18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

I believe that within 1 Thes. 4:13-18 states within its self that this is a separate time from the last day judgement in that the last day Judgement says
Re 20:13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.Re 20:14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


or either this judgement

Re 20:11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.Re 20:12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Notice that rev, says that they are raised to be judged, But please take note here The ones that are raised in1 Thes 4, are already judged to be in Christ, and then the ones in Christ are raised " and the dead in Christ shall rise first" they are already judged to be in Chirst, but the ones on the last day are raised then judged, so either Paul was confused when He was inspired to write 1Thes or maybe John was confused when he saw rev 20, or those that don't teach a prib-trib rapture are confused on what scripture actually teaches let's see either paul was wrong or John didn't see what he said he saw , or some people are blinded by following the Blind, Yeah I cast my vote on some people are blinded to the truth by following the blind teaching of man , I would be very interesting to see how for preacher would explain that the Judged was raised at one event at the other event which is supposed to be to same event the dead was raised then Judged???????? then Jesus said on that last day that he separated the sheep from the Goats he didn't say he separated them before He raised them. but on that judgement day

Obviously not every one that dies today or in the past goes to heaven. Here we have four separate groups of people in the millennium that begins when Christ comes.
1. Those that are alive and have the seal of God
2. Those that are alive and have not the seal of God(they have yet to die the first death)
3. Those that died in Christ before the second advent
4. Those that died in sin before the second advent

Hopefully this helps but we can get more specific. Let me know

 

[oopsies]

Providing an abundance of scripture is different than posting the same scripture over and over, its called getting confirmation in the word. God didn't need Moses either, but He choosers throughout the Bible to use men to teach and carry out His will. I'm surprised you've never picked up on that.

Well, if you believe that God chose you to this task, by all means. Who am I to say that He didn't? So you keep right at it but from the looks of things, it sure doesn't match up with what the Bible teaches. Anyway, I'm done giving my point. I've said what I've come to say.

 

[miktre]

Well, if you believe that God chose you to this task, by all means. Who am I to say that He didn't? So you keep right at it but from the looks of things, it sure doesn't match up with what the Bible teaches. Anyway, I'm done giving my point. I've said what I've come to say.

You said your opinion and I and many others shall continue to provide the scripture. Good day.

 

[miktre]

Lets go over it again, I don't think I answered your question properly.

well ask your pastor this for me, if you could answer this it may help me, [/font]

1th 4:13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.1th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.1th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.1th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:1th 4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.1th 4:18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

I believe that within 1 Thes. 4:13-18 states within its self that this is a separate time from the last day judgement in that the last day Judgement says
Yes you are right this is a separate event than Rev 20:11-14.
Rev 20:11-14 happens at the end of the millennium.
Those that are dead in sin shall not be coming with Christ because they were never with Him.



Re 20:13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.Re 20:14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


or either this judgement

Re 20:11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.Re 20:12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Notice that rev, says that they are raised to be judged, But please take note here The ones that are raised in1 Thes 4, are already judged to be in Christ, and then the ones in Christ are raised " and the dead in Christ shall rise first" they are already judged to be in Chirst, but the ones on the last day are raised then judged, so either Paul was confused when He was inspired to write 1Thes or maybe John was confused when he saw rev 20, or those that don't teach a prib-trib rapture are confused on what scripture actually teaches let's see either paul was wrong or John didn't see what he said he saw , or some people are blinded by following the Blind, Yeah I cast my vote on some people are blinded to the truth by following the blind teaching of man , I would be very interesting to see how for preacher would explain that the Judged was raised at one event at the other event which is supposed to be to same event the dead was raised then Judged???????? then Jesus said on that last day that he separated the sheep from the Goats he didn't say he separated them before He raised them. but on that judgement day

Now those of us that die in Christ go back to the Lord. He knows His sheep. The great white throne judgement is for the second death, those that died in sin shall be raised to face final judgement. Hope this helps.

 

[Thaddaeus]

Obviously not every one that dies today or in the past goes to heaven. Here we have four separate groups of people in the millennium that begins when Christ comes.
1. Those that are alive and have the seal of God
2. Those that are alive and have not the seal of God(they have yet to die the first death)
3. Those that died in Christ before the second advent
4. Those that died in sin before the second advent

Hopefully this helps but we can get more specific. Let me know

ok I let you know, you will show this with scriptures, I hope

 

[Thaddaeus]

Lets go over it again, I don't think I answered your question properly.

Now those of us that die in Christ go back to the Lord. He knows His sheep. The great white throne judgement is for the second death, those that died in sin shall be raised to face final judgement. Hope this helps.

Nope this can't be for the white throne Judgement is for christians who are judged by their works here for their rewards not salvation, the next verse talks about the last day Judgement which is the second death, the white seat judges those written in the Book of life. if your name is in the book you have already been judged as one who has the promise of life. try again if you want to be lined up with scriptures that is.
Re 20:11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.


Re 20:12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Re 20:13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.Re 20:14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
two separate events here also, dude notice to wording carefully, the dead stand Before God at the white throne then verse 13 the sea and hell delivered up their dead , how can one person stand before God at the white throne and then be raised again at the second death. you need to pay closer attention to the wording so that you won't be decieved then in turn you won't decieve any

 

[giantone]

I was looking at the first post of this thread and at the video, it got me thinking, who would gain by having a pre-tribulation rapture theory in the minds of Christians or who would gain by not having a concept of pre-tribulation rapture? I don't have answers but you would think if a deception was going on by either adding pre-trib or eliminating it, someone would have to benefit by this lie. I doubt they could benefit both ways.

This post is meant to be neutral but someone is being deceived.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Look at who is selling the movies and books about their doctrine and that gives you a clue as to who is benefiting and who is false. Left behind video game anyone? I spent $15 to see a 45 minute left behind movie that really was 1 star out of 5. If that's not a rip off I don't know what is.

 

[miktre]

Nope this can't be for the white throne Judgement is for christians who are judged by their works here for their rewards not salvation, the next verse talks about the last day Judgement which is the second death, the white seat judges those written in the Book of life. if your name is in the book you have already been judged as one who has the promise of life. try again if you want to be lined up with scriptures that is.
Re 20:11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.


Re 20:12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Re 20:13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.Re 20:14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
two separate events here also, dude notice to wording carefully, the dead stand Before God at the white throne then verse 13 the sea and hell delivered up their dead , how can one person stand before God at the white throne and then be raised again at the second death. you need to pay closer attention to the wording so that you won't be decieved then in turn you won't decieve any

Lets look at this closely then because apparently you want this to prove a rapture, I dunno. You will not find rapture here either way because this all happens at the end of the 1000 years.

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Establishes this is at the end of the millennium.

8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Great white throne judgement at the end of the 1000 years.


12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Righteous judged because they are in the book of life.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Sea=peoples; Wicked judged. Not 2 separate events but one is judged before the other.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
The real deception would be trying to make any kind of rapture doctrine out of this, when this clearly happens at the end of the 1000 years.

 

[walt2000]

Great white throne judgement at the end of the 1000 years.?
Great White Throne.1000 Years Your taking For granted that there is a alloted 1000 years .
1000 years is a mega number.????????? That means that the devil has a thousand years to regroup,I don't think so .When the devil go's at Christ's Second Advent. He is not given another thousand years .walt2000​

 

[walt2000]

I don't see This? Second Advent = The Devil Is Dead .
To the Lord ,A thousand Years As a Day And A Day as a Thousand years.= a ambiguous Large number.
walt2000​

 

[walt2000]

How big is
ten thousands, times, ten thousands, and thousands of thousands of angels,walt2000​

 

[miktre]

I don't see This? Second Advent = The Devil Is Dead .
To the Lord ,A thousand Years As a Day And A Day as a Thousand years.= a ambiguous Large number.
walt2000​

Yes the millennium is the Day of the Lord; i.e. 1000 years. Satan is bound at the beginning of that Day and at the end of that day he is loosed and those with him are destroyed once and for all.
Documentation:
REV 20
1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Devil is bound for 1000 years

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Satan is loosed after the 1000 years

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Righteous reign with Christ for 1000 years

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Wicked in hell during the Day of the Lord

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Righteous reign with Christ for the Day of the Lord

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Satan loosed after the Day of the Lord

8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Satan's last chance to deceive and gather the rest of the dead that lived after the 1000 years, second resurrection.

9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Satan's last stand. God sends them all back to hell

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Game over for satan

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Now comes judgement

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Righteous judged

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Death and hell delivered up for judgement

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Death and hell cast into the lake of fire; second death

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.