Can liars and thieves still make heaven?

[Jayoish]

1. Dying is not sleep. Our spirits are alive forever.
2. Human spirits who die are aware of time passing.
Revelation 6:9-11
When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of all who had been martyred for the word of God and for being faithful in their testimony. [SUP]10 [/SUP]They shouted to the Lord and said, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you judge the people who belong to this world and avenge our blood for what they have done to us?” [SUP]11 [/SUP]Then a white robe was given to each of them. And they were told to rest a little longer until the full number of their brothers and sisters—their fellow servants of Jesus who were to be martyred—had joined them.

Response:
Dying is not sleep. Our spirits are alive forever. --- I disagree Euphemia and so does the Bible. Job 14:10-15 states,
10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
So, even Job say that we sleep, which we do until Christ returns and awake us. Furthermore, the spirit in us is the spirit of GOD and when we die it returns back to him, and has no more association with us, for we are dead. Job 27:3 and Genesis 2:7 state it:
JoB:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
Genesis:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 states spirit goes back to GOD and 9:5 the dead have no more Knowledge:
5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Paul confirms the dead sleep and do not rise again until Christ’s return: 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
I hope this helps,
Jayoish

 

[Jayoish]

The word, "sleep" was coined by ancient men, uneducated in scientific facts about physical death to represent physical death. That people of this era still cling to these ancient, simpleton expressions is very sad, indeed.

Of course it is OK to say that we put our cats or dogs to sleep to refer to euthanizing them, but it is not the case, now, is it? It's inane. It's even worse if you apply to human beings! As human beings, made in the image of God, as a trip0artite being: body, soul and spirit, it behooves many of you here to delve into this and become informed about just what happens to the soul and spirit after death. We who know Jesus Christ and have become new creatures in Christ---do not die!

.

Can you please provide me scripture to back up your claim? Anything you say is worthless without support and proof. The Bible states in I Thessalonians 5:21 to prove all things.

21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Jayoish

 

[JaumeJ]

There will be no sinners in heaven. In this age there is only one type of sin that will put a soul in jeopardy of damnation, and the ones cited are not of that category.

All sins will be forgiven aside from the one given in the Word regarding blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Rest easy for all who believe, all who are in Jesus Christ are living in grace as long as it is not used as license. Meanwhile it is not a good practice to seek out unforgiveable sin for yourself or for others.

Love those you fear for in this regard and pray for them, but never for their sin......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Will liars and thieves still make heaven?

Simple question!

Murderers and adulterers will. Why not liars and theives..

 

[NayborBear]

Will liars and thieves still make heaven?

Simple question!

Assuming these "liars n thieves" are Saved People?......Cuz no one who has been saved, are totally "liars n thieves"....That piece of them, which is saved, shall make heaven, but, they gonna "look/feel" pretty ill-clothed for the occasion.

(Sometimes, is much easier answering OP, before grabbing the popcorn...)

 

[shineyourlight]

Will liars and thieves still make heaven?

Simple question!

It's simple, yes, but why do I feel like there's an ulterior motive to this question?

 

[Jeffry]

From "Yet": "Will liars and thieves still make heaven?"

There is not a single promise anywhere in the entire Bible that anyone has ever gone to heaven, or that anyone ever will. The gospel (good news) that Christ brought from His Father is all about our chance to become part of the "kingdom of God" (Mrk. 1:15) (NIV). Jesus shall begin to establish that "kingdom" on earth when He returns to first raise His dead saints: "Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen" (Rev. 1:7). jg

 

[Lost_sheep]

Genesis 5:24 (KJV)
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

...sounds like at least one person made it to heaven. Sorry, have a real hard time believing that heaven is sitting completely uninhabited like a new sub-development waiting for people to move in. It just doesn't compute.

 

[Jeffry]

Genesis 5:24 (KJV)
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

...sounds like at least one person made it to heaven. Sorry, have a real hard time believing that heaven is sitting completely uninhabited like a new sub-development waiting for people to move in. It just doesn't compute.[/QUOTE
"Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away"(NIV). Can't see where either translation says that God "took him" or "took him away" to heaven. No "promise of heaven" in that verse (or in any other). jg

 

[Lost_sheep]

Genesis 5:24 (KJV)
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

...sounds like at least one person made it to heaven. Sorry, have a real hard time believing that heaven is sitting completely uninhabited like a new sub-development waiting for people to move in. It just doesn't compute.[/QUOTE
"Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away"(NIV). Can't see where either translation says that God "took him" or "took him away" to heaven. No "promise of heaven" in that verse (or in any other). jg

So where do you suppose God took Enoch? A two-week all-inclusive cruise in the Caribbean? To the movies? Are you so firm in your position (read that as stubborn) that unless someone finds some obscure passage that reads exactly the way you think it should, you're just going to dismiss everything else? You aren't trying to debate; you're trying to pick a fight. I've got more important things to do than bicker back and forth with you. I need to give my cat her Tensor Calculus lesson.

 

[Grace777x70]

God most likely took him to paradise where Abraham and the others were before Jesus went down to them when He died on the cross.

Jesus said no man has ascended into heaven but the Son of man after He first descended after He took our place at Calvary.

John 3:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] "If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

Jesus had to enter the heavenly temple to cleanse it by His own blood. Most likely this is when satan was cast out of heaven when Jesus cleansed it.

Hebrews 9:21-24 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] And in the same way he sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;

Here is where satan was cast out of heaven...

John 12:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.Luke 10:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.


Revelation 12:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

 

[Marcelo]

Some pastors threaten us saying that if we don't tithe we're robbing God, and CC Member Yet retorts asking: "Can liars and thieves still make Heaven?" Those who once were liars and thieves, but now are born again can be saved. Pastors, however, cannot lie nor steal because they've already been baptized and know the word of God better than anyone. They should use other arguments for asking money because Malachi 3:9-11 has nothing to do with Christian churches. Paul talked about collection of money -- not tithing. All churches need money, but in many cases 10% is way too much. Pastors who bully their faithful congregants into paying 10% of their income are not speaking the truth and may not make Heaven.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hey Yet...I found a scripture for you......


Numbers 15:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] 'From the first of your dough you shall give to the LORD an offering throughout your generations.

 

[49]

Hey Yet...I found a scripture for you......


Numbers 15:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] 'From the first of your dough you shall give to the LORD an offering throughout your generations.

Oh no you didn't...oh wait, you did.

 

[Grace777x70]

LOL..funny isn't it?..it was in our verse of the bible thread..I laughed when I saw it...

Oh no you didn't...oh wait, you did.

 

[Kaycie]

No. But those in Christ are no longer such things, they're Christians. When God forgives our sins, it is the same as if it never happened. He does not sweep it under the rug to where it can't be seen, He washes it away- it no longer exists. So if I don't lie am I a liar? Of course not. If I lie and it is made to where that lie does not exist, am I a liar? Of course not. It is the same. Justified = just if I'd never sinned at all. Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven. But a lie not washed away makes that person a liar because they will be held accountable for that spiritual crime.

For example, let's say my last name was 'Sinner'. 'Ms Jane Doe Sinner. But I married and my old last name is no longer, and my new last name is 'Christian'. I am no longer a Sinner (liar, thief, etc). For I have taken off my name, and the sins accounted to my name, and called on the name of the Lord. Now I will inherit all that only 'Christians' will inherit. For I am now Mrs. Jane Doe Christian. I'm not a sinner, I'm not a liar, etc, I'm a Christian by the miracle of God.

We can't take advantage of this, or we'll be divorced. Our account is now under Christ- Who has perfect credit. But we don't get away Scott free when we fail, God disciplines those that He accepts as a son or daughter. One should fear to disobey Him.

 

[crossnote]

Somethin is wrong with this here picture...

10 Richest Pastors You Won't Believe Are Millionaires

 

[Lost_sheep]

Somethin is wrong with this here picture...

10 Richest Pastors You Won't Believe Are Millionaires

I wonder how many of them would still take up the pulpit if they didn't get paid a dime for their work and had to preach only to earn a hot meal and a place to sleep.

 

[crossnote]

I wonder how many of them would still take up the pulpit if they didn't get paid a dime for their work and had to preach only to earn a hot meal and a place to sleep.

These wolves give Christiandom a bad rap, yet we're supposed to 'not touch the Lord's annointed' ...go figure $$$

 

[Lost_sheep]

Lemme see...what was it I remember from tonight's readings? Ah yes, here it is:

Matthew 19:24 (KJV)
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

...I know what they'd say..."but I have the money for my ministry". Really preacher? Do you NEED to drive to your mega church in a Mercedes Benz and walk across a stage with more square footage than most peoples' house in a $1000 suit? Methinks you priorities are out of whack, preacher man.