Rapture= false teaching

[stillearning]

The seven seals of Revalation
​

First seal: White Horse: Deception
Rev 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
Second seal; Red Horse: War
Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse [that was] red: and [power] was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
Third seal; Black Horse: famine
Rev 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Fourth seal; Pale Horse: Pestilence
Rev 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Fifth seal; Martyrdom and Great Tribulation
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were], should be fulfilled.
Sixth seal; Heavanly Signs
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Silence in Heavan
Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer [it] with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, [which came] with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast [it] into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
Seventh seal; Seven Trumpet Plagues
Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

 

[stillearning]

Seven Trumpets: The day of the Lord
First Trumpet: Green grass and one-third of the trees are burned up. Rev 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
Second Trumpet: One-third of sea becomes blood; one third of ships and sea life destroyed. Rev 8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; Rev 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
Third Trumpet: One-third of waters turn bitter. Rev 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; Rev 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
Fourth Trumpet: One-third of sun, moon and stars do not shine. Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
Fifth Trumpet: "Locusts" wield the beasts military power. Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment [was] as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. Rev 9:7 And the shapes of the locusts [were] like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads [were] as it were crowns like gold, and their faces [were] as the faces of men. Rev 9:8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as [the teeth] of lions. Rev 9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings [was] as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power [was] to hurt men five months. Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon. Rev 9:12 One woe is past; [and], behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
Sixth Trumpet: 200 million-man army; a third of mankind killed. Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen [were] two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses [were] as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails [were] like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt. Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
Seventh Trumpet: The Kingdom is proclaimed. Second coming. Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. ​

 

[stillearning]

Seven Last Plagues​

First Plague: Sores afflict those who accepted the mark of the beast.
Rev 16:2 ¶ And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and [upon] them which worshipped his image.
Second Plague: Sea turns to blood; all sea creatures die.
Rev 16:3 ¶ And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead [man]: and every living soul died in the sea.
Third Plague: Rivers turn to blood.
Rev 16:4 ¶ And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
Rev 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
Rev 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
Rev 16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments.
Fourth Plague: Mankind, scorched by sun, blasphemes God.
Rev 16:8 ¶ And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. "
Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Fifth Plague: The Beast's seat of government is afflicted.
Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Sixth Plague: The Euphrates is dried up; world armies gather to Armageddon.
Rev 16:12 ¶ And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed [is] he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Seventh Plague: The earth is utterly shaken.
Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, [and] so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, [every stone] about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

 

[stillearning]

I just do not see a pretrib rapture during the 7 seals, 7 trumps, or the 7 last plagues

 

[MyBagsRPacked]

You want to suppose that we go into a hole in the ground rather that go back to the Father in heaven when we die?

We do go back to the grave....the dead know nothing.

 

[MyBagsRPacked]

We do go back to the grave....the dead know nothing.

The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious state for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the resurrected righteous and the living righteous will be glorified and caught up to meet their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the unrighteous, will take place a thousand years later. (Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16; Eccl. 9:5, 6; Ps. 146:3, 4; John 11:11-14; Col. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess. 4:13-17; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:1-10.)

Ecclesiastes 9:5 (New International Version)


5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even the memory of them is forgotten.

 

[miktre]

We do go back to the grave....the dead know nothing.

19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Doesn't sound like to me that either one is unconscious.

24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Abraham is conscious also here.
Christ told the thief that was being crucified that he shall be in paradise that very day. That was over 2000 years ago, is he still unconscious? No

6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7(For we walk by faith, not by sight)
8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Absent from the body=present before the Lord.


This is referring to your flesh body
4For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. 5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
All the things of the flesh are done when you die.

 

[miktre]

Nice post Stillearning

 

[greatkraw]

The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious state for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the resurrected righteous and the living righteous will be glorified and caught up to meet their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the unrighteous, will take place a thousand years later. (Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16; Eccl. 9:5, 6; Ps. 146:3, 4; John 11:11-14; Col. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess. 4:13-17; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:1-10.)

Ecclesiastes 9:5 (New International Version)


5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even the memory of them is forgotten.

SDA dogma

(a text without a context is a pretext)

 

[mpaper345]

hello,

There is a resurrection of the saints but not at the time that a lot of people believe.
The Bible says do not be deceived for the resurrection of the saints will not happen until the antichrist appears claiming to be God.
The reason is that God is love and God loves all people and God will not give up on the world until the world gives up on Him.As long as the world can repent of their sins God will not take His children home.When the world takes the mark of the beast then they cannot repent of their sins and God will take His children home to come back later with His saints to fight at the battle of armageddon.
There is only one resurrection of the saints and there are no left behind saints for all that is rest have tooken the mark of the beast and are doomed.


16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some(2 Timothy 2:16-18).

People who preach a pre-tribulation resurrection are going to overthrow the faith of some people who are not going to believe in the Bible because it did not happen.
The Bible says that certain things have to happen before the saints are resurrected which puts the saints in the tribulation.The book of Daniel says that the saints shall be given in to the antichrist's hands for 3 and one half years.
Do not be deceived.

Matt

 

[MyBagsRPacked]

19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Doesn't sound like to me that either one is unconscious.

24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Abraham is conscious also here.
Christ told the thief that was being crucified that he shall be in paradise that very day. That was over 2000 years ago, is he still unconscious? No

6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7(For we walk by faith, not by sight)
8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Absent from the body=present before the Lord.


This is referring to your flesh body
4For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. 5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
All the things of the flesh are done when you die.

At the time of the Crucifiction, the graves opened up (the earthquake) and the righteous (up to that point) were taken to heaven with him.

 

[MyBagsRPacked]

miktre

As well, Jesus himself said in John 5: 28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice.29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

Are we to believe that if we`re indeed going straight to Heaven (or not) when we die, that judgement has already occured at the point of our death...
I know that`s not true.

 

[miktre]

miktre

As well, Jesus himself said in John 5: 28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice.29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

Are we to believe that if we`re indeed going straight to Heaven (or not) when we die, that judgement has already occured at the point of our death...
I know that`s not true.

Lazarus and the rich man died before the earthquake and the graves were opened up.
John 5 is for those like the good Samaritan and others that died in sin before Christ came.

 

[MyBagsRPacked]

Lazarus and the rich man died before the earthquake and the graves were opened up.
John 5 is for those like the good Samaritan and others that died in sin before Christ came.

Yes, hence the ability to leave the grave at the time of the resurrection of christ...*nod*

 

[miktre]

Yes, hence the ability to leave the grave at the time of the resurrection of christ...*nod*

Not sure if you or me thats not following here.
Rich man and Lazarus happened before the earthquake and they were not unconscious.

 

[MyBagsRPacked]

Not sure if you or me thats not following here.
Rich man and Lazarus happened before the earthquake and they were not unconscious.

Ummm...it`s a Parable from Jesus.....another warning about how we are to conduct ourselves in life, but not a factual event.

Sorry to confuse lol

 

[miktre]

Ummm...it`s a Parable from Jesus.....another warning, but not a factual event.

Don't think so, Lazarus literally died.

 

[MyBagsRPacked]

Don't think so, Lazarus literally died.

The Lazerus in this Parable is not the same Lazerus you are thinking of...

 

[miktre]

The Lazerus in this Parable is not the same Lazerus you are thinking of...

Don't think so, here they talk about Lazarus rising from the dead to witness to the rich mans father and brothers.

27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[MyBagsRPacked]

Don't think so, here they talk about Lazarus rising from the dead to witness to the rich mans father and brothers.

27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

What bible are you reading...my bible study notes clearly state that it is indeed NOT the same Lazerus as in John 11.