Faith is our righteousness - Christ is our sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins
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You do not think they can?
So the world is in church, say it is not so......
lets all be couch potato Christians listening to tv preachers, because there is no escape from the world in our churches..
I have known people admit they want still are not sure about this god thing, but they like to come to church because they are so blessed by Gods people when they come, and they forget the troubles of the world.
if your churhces do not experience this, maybe you need to re-think your church. because something is very very wrong..
I am saying you have salvation because of faith in Jesus. If you loose this faith you loose your salvation.
As a result of your faith, you walk in obedience. Or as James says, faith without works is dead.
This is not justification by works. Yet you claim it is. But these works are the sign of real faith, as taught in scripture.
Obedience is equally a fruit of faith. Now you claim you believe this also.
But it appears I am not allowed to believe this, but you can.
What Peter is arguing is faith bring love into the believers heart. If the believer says I love yet fails to love the person at the doorstep they cannot have love or faith as Jesus intended. It is that simple.
As a result of your faith, you walk in obedience. Or as James says, faith without works is dead.
This is not justification by works. Yet you claim it is. But these works are the sign of real faith, as taught in scripture.
Obedience is equally a fruit of faith. Now you claim you believe this also.
But it appears I am not allowed to believe this, but you can.
What Peter is arguing is faith bring love into the believers heart. If the believer says I love yet fails to love the person at the doorstep they cannot have love or faith as Jesus intended. It is that simple.
E
Both were considered outsiders.. A Samaritan was considered a dog because they were no better than a gentile. they were half breeds, basically a gentile.
But i guess you think these people are saved. and children born of God, and made new in him..
You must, because your using it to say these people were saved.
If that does not scare you, nothing will
Yeah it does. because God knows his sheep.. We are all but sheep who have gone astray, God came to save us.. His true sheep (those who want and desire for him to be their Shepard) now his voice..
Your still a sheep after you are saved, that does not change,, Your still nothing but without God.
he is,
A person who is not changed, will go back to what their true nature is,
The nature of a dog is to eat its vomit,
The nature of a pig is to wallow n its mire
It has not changed, because it still has its true nature, It can play new tricks for a period of time, but it will always live out its true nature.
God gave us a new nature.. I know you do not believe this, thats why you can not understand.
You want to be a pig, a dog, an ape? Feel free.
I wil continue to be a sheep. and listen to the voice of my master, and trust when I get of the path, he will get in my way and lead me back.
Thats faith..
E
so I have asked you over and over, WHO WOULD LOSE FAITH??
Are you perfect? Thats Gods requirement?
Or do you have faith in God even though your not perfect?
Yes it is,, Because your basing salvation based on works, Not faith..
Faith occurs before one work is done,, A living faith works, it is not perfect.. it never will be,, thats why we do not have faith in self. but we must rely on faith in God..
Again, I showed you pauls warning, are you fools. havingn BEGUN in the spirit (faith) are you now being perfected in the flesh (works)
Works do not perfect faith, Faith perfects works.. you have it backwards..
Believe what? That I can have a faith that will NEVER FAIL ME, that SAVED ME FROM MYSELF, and GAVE ME HIS SON, and that faith will fade away to unbelief?
No, I ill never believe that, that does not make sense..
No what he is arging is that there are people among them who have never come to true faith, and they need to test their own faith, just like James did, and paul did, many times..
The bible can not say you HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. yuo will NEVER PERISH, you will NEVER BE CAST AWAY, you have been given EVERY SPIRITUAL BLESSING, have been SEALED BY THE HS OF PROMISE who is your GUARANTEE UNTIL THE REDEMPTION DAY. and many many other things, which John calls our hope..
then say all this can be lost..
for it would all be a lie.. and our faith is futile with no bases or foundation.
if your foundation is not the cross and the cross alone, Your foundation will crumble..
I agree that this is the point of total realisation. But people can know a witness in their heart. They can know through scripture as it becomes clearer if they are on the right track.
In our church on sunday I heared many calling for the Spirit to fall on the congregation. It struck me this was a very mystical hope. If you say Jesus is very flesh and bone, the cross a brutal reality in front of you, you walking in the light about love, righteousness and sin, how the Spirit works and what we need to do is plain as day.
In reality most are totally lost blown about by emotional fancies. Unfortunately other than christians personally asuaging guilt and sin, they often are as introverted as the world, or more so, believing they have arrived and the others are failures.
I would say I have a clearer view today about setting things straight within as without, than I have in the past.
What confuses things tremendously is people like EG convinced the problem is legalists and unfrocking believers for some issues that are mainly in his head rather than in any reality. I have met people who literally do not admit they need to repent and covering up sin is the way to walk in being a christian, so I do know this kind of church reality.
But it is hard to say faith has meaning when those with faith call other hypocrites, evil, lost because of some doctrinal view they have. It is like cancer gone crazy and very destructive, where there is no encouragement for this behaviour other than talking about sin and denial of Christ reality. Not suprisingly some in the hyper-grace group have redefined Christ and the christian to they degree they are little gods, with command authority etc. So I suppose with this background being a normal christian is simply wrong to them.
In our church on sunday I heared many calling for the Spirit to fall on the congregation. It struck me this was a very mystical hope. If you say Jesus is very flesh and bone, the cross a brutal reality in front of you, you walking in the light about love, righteousness and sin, how the Spirit works and what we need to do is plain as day.
In reality most are totally lost blown about by emotional fancies. Unfortunately other than christians personally asuaging guilt and sin, they often are as introverted as the world, or more so, believing they have arrived and the others are failures.
I would say I have a clearer view today about setting things straight within as without, than I have in the past.
What confuses things tremendously is people like EG convinced the problem is legalists and unfrocking believers for some issues that are mainly in his head rather than in any reality. I have met people who literally do not admit they need to repent and covering up sin is the way to walk in being a christian, so I do know this kind of church reality.
But it is hard to say faith has meaning when those with faith call other hypocrites, evil, lost because of some doctrinal view they have. It is like cancer gone crazy and very destructive, where there is no encouragement for this behaviour other than talking about sin and denial of Christ reality. Not suprisingly some in the hyper-grace group have redefined Christ and the christian to they degree they are little gods, with command authority etc. So I suppose with this background being a normal christian is simply wrong to them.
Scripture is plain, people lose their faith.
Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
1 Tim 6:10
which some have professed and in so doing have departed from the faith.
1 Tim 6:21
My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20
I have friends who have left the faith. Now what seems to bother you is that faith might evaporate in someones life.
I do not know how or why these things happen, but people do change positions.
It seems to be a massive problem to you. I do not understand why. You seem to imply that faith is a one way street. Could I wake up tomorrow and have lost my faith? Maybe. That is me admitting I do not know everything, but I know I believe in Jesus. That is enough for me. I am not scared of tomorrow because I am safe in His hands.
Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
1 Tim 6:10
which some have professed and in so doing have departed from the faith.
1 Tim 6:21
My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20
I have friends who have left the faith. Now what seems to bother you is that faith might evaporate in someones life.
I do not know how or why these things happen, but people do change positions.
It seems to be a massive problem to you. I do not understand why. You seem to imply that faith is a one way street. Could I wake up tomorrow and have lost my faith? Maybe. That is me admitting I do not know everything, but I know I believe in Jesus. That is enough for me. I am not scared of tomorrow because I am safe in His hands.
There you go again, saying what I base salvation on. I get tired of you telling me what I am doing.
It is pointless, literally pointless.
Now the bible can say in the abstract sense, here is a group, they will never perish, they have eternal life etc.
This was said about the people of Israel brought out of Egypt, that they were heirs of the promise.
But many rebelled and were killed. In the end a whole generation refused to enter the land, and were cast out.
So God often gives promises with conditions. If you fulfill the conditions you get the prize.
Listen to this
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Rev 2:7
What happens if you are not victorious? You do not get to eat from the tree of life.
And this is written to believers, who are under threat.
I do not understand why putting conditions on a promise is so hard to accept.
The whole of the law and blessings, where conditional on Israel being faithful to God and the law, keeping the commandments. So conditionality is part of Gods covenants from the beginning.
It is pointless, literally pointless.
Now the bible can say in the abstract sense, here is a group, they will never perish, they have eternal life etc.
This was said about the people of Israel brought out of Egypt, that they were heirs of the promise.
But many rebelled and were killed. In the end a whole generation refused to enter the land, and were cast out.
So God often gives promises with conditions. If you fulfill the conditions you get the prize.
Listen to this
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Rev 2:7
What happens if you are not victorious? You do not get to eat from the tree of life.
And this is written to believers, who are under threat.
I do not understand why putting conditions on a promise is so hard to accept.
The whole of the law and blessings, where conditional on Israel being faithful to God and the law, keeping the commandments. So conditionality is part of Gods covenants from the beginning.
E
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”[SUP][c]
[/SUP] [SUP]17 [/SUP]then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[SUP][d][/SUP]
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]and having a High Priest over the house of God, [SUP]
22 [/SUP]let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
How more clear can it be, Yet I fear they will not see..
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”[SUP][c]
[/SUP] [SUP]17 [/SUP]then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[SUP][d][/SUP]
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]and having a High Priest over the house of God, [SUP]
22 [/SUP]let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
How more clear can it be, Yet I fear they will not see..
This argument has been going on for years. Every now again I try to make a statement just to see if anyone paying attention to the WORD. It is amazing to me that every time I put a relevant scripture even without a comment, that people can begin to defend what it is saying immediately. Its says a lot.
I thank GOD for HIS grace, but I also know that HE is a righteous and just judge. And if we are found to be in error HE will not hesitate to blot out names from the book of life. HE is HOLY
All the best.
I thank GOD for HIS grace, but I also know that HE is a righteous and just judge. And if we are found to be in error HE will not hesitate to blot out names from the book of life. HE is HOLY
All the best.
E
There is an answer. You just do not want to hear it.
People who fall away never had true faith. Jhn said they were never of us, if they were, they would never leave, The author of hebrews said we would never fall back to perdition.. Because we have a full assurance of faith.. and a high priest who will never fail us.
Not everything you and I call faith is faith..
Faith has an object. what do you think was the object of those people faith. God? If it was God, when did God ail them so bad they would lost complete trust in God. because that is what you are saying they do,
For even faith of a mustard seed can move mountains.. Or do you not believe this either?
Faith is a one way street. Thats what you do not get.
I have to have faith in God and NOTHING ELSE..
I can nt say I have faith in someone, then deny them, or do not do what they say,, But take short cuts, I deny and take short cuts because I do not trust them, If I trusted them, I would do what rthey say, or at least question what they say, and ask them to explain, and help me with my unbelief, Even God healed the child who's father could not have full belief.
if my faith is not 100 percent in God, it is not real faith,, it is mere belief, even demons believe,, Good luck with believe and thinking you will get to heaven.. No wonder you have no assurance.
if you think you can wake up tomorrow. and not have faith in God at all. You better research deep inside yourself, because You have no faith right now. faith does not waver,, and fall back to perdition. It may change from deep inner faith to little doubting, but it will never fall away to nothing..
People who fall away never had true faith. Jhn said they were never of us, if they were, they would never leave, The author of hebrews said we would never fall back to perdition.. Because we have a full assurance of faith.. and a high priest who will never fail us.
Not everything you and I call faith is faith..
Faith has an object. what do you think was the object of those people faith. God? If it was God, when did God ail them so bad they would lost complete trust in God. because that is what you are saying they do,
For even faith of a mustard seed can move mountains.. Or do you not believe this either?
Faith is a one way street. Thats what you do not get.
I have to have faith in God and NOTHING ELSE..
I can nt say I have faith in someone, then deny them, or do not do what they say,, But take short cuts, I deny and take short cuts because I do not trust them, If I trusted them, I would do what rthey say, or at least question what they say, and ask them to explain, and help me with my unbelief, Even God healed the child who's father could not have full belief.
if my faith is not 100 percent in God, it is not real faith,, it is mere belief, even demons believe,, Good luck with believe and thinking you will get to heaven.. No wonder you have no assurance.
if you think you can wake up tomorrow. and not have faith in God at all. You better research deep inside yourself, because You have no faith right now. faith does not waver,, and fall back to perdition. It may change from deep inner faith to little doubting, but it will never fall away to nothing..
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E
The bible says it, It does not say it in an abstract sense.
Thats your first issue.
Through abraham, it belongs to me also. I am not talking about land, I am talking about all God promises to give to his people for all eternity.
God did give them the land, and he will again,
God made requirements for them if they were to live in it, He never gave them requriments to own it.. God owns it, And he gave it to them, nothing changes about that.
your tryign to mix abrahamic from mosaic covenant
I have already become victorious. I am in christ,,
I though you just said you were not teaching works? You just taught works.. Which is it? (see I am not bearing false against yuo like you claim, You do teach works)
This is written to everyone in a church,, Everyone Believer and non believer alike. You assume everyone in a church is saved, thats your other issue
Because a gift which has conditions is not a gift, it is a reward, a wage, a payment
Salvation is said to be a gift, not a reward. Your trying to make it a wage, not a gift.
Romans 4 You need to study it,, hard..
The only conditions was given for if Isreal would live in peace or not. Had nothing to do with the land promise. it stands today and always has, whether isreal lived in it or not..
Two groups are mentioned here, those perfected forever and those who draw back to perdition (are destroyed).
So in this very passage you miss the very split I have been talking about, while quoting the verses as if they prove your point. That is blindness to the words themselves, because you believe they are not saying this, so do not even read the words when they are there in front of you.
Yes those in the Kingdom, written in the lambs book of life are destined to walk with Him and in His ways.
As part of our souls, our nature, our DNA, we walk in righteousness, desiring purity and wholeness, integrity and truth.
It is our daily bread to dwell with the Most High. We are justified by faith in Christ and the cross, and the outflow of our lives are pleasing to God. Sin when it appears we repent of it, and seek to serve those we meet everywhere.
But you have the diving rod that God has given to nobody to tell who walks with the Lord and who does not, yet you can tell when the angels themselves are commanded not to do so, because it upsets the good seed and plants.
But this warning is not enough. But it is the enemy that wishes to bring strife and judgementalism. So imagine if someone falls away because they were deemed not to believe in the right way or the right doctrines though they walked with Jesus, this was just not good enough.
So in this very passage you miss the very split I have been talking about, while quoting the verses as if they prove your point. That is blindness to the words themselves, because you believe they are not saying this, so do not even read the words when they are there in front of you.
Yes those in the Kingdom, written in the lambs book of life are destined to walk with Him and in His ways.
As part of our souls, our nature, our DNA, we walk in righteousness, desiring purity and wholeness, integrity and truth.
It is our daily bread to dwell with the Most High. We are justified by faith in Christ and the cross, and the outflow of our lives are pleasing to God. Sin when it appears we repent of it, and seek to serve those we meet everywhere.
But you have the diving rod that God has given to nobody to tell who walks with the Lord and who does not, yet you can tell when the angels themselves are commanded not to do so, because it upsets the good seed and plants.
But this warning is not enough. But it is the enemy that wishes to bring strife and judgementalism. So imagine if someone falls away because they were deemed not to believe in the right way or the right doctrines though they walked with Jesus, this was just not good enough.
Get real. Jesus is talking to churches of believers. He is giving them an ultimatum. Do these things or you loose your rights.
I am not teaching this I am reading what is written. I suggest you cannot read and answer the point about the letters to the churches in revelations. It is a standard theological point that you appear to be ignoring.
This is about Jonah going to Nineveh and saying judgement was coming, but they repented. This is not works.
I am not teaching this I am reading what is written. I suggest you cannot read and answer the point about the letters to the churches in revelations. It is a standard theological point that you appear to be ignoring.
This is about Jonah going to Nineveh and saying judgement was coming, but they repented. This is not works.
E
He blots our name out because we reject his son, and call his holy spirit a liar (blaspheme)
Not because we got the rapture wrong, or the age of the earth wrong..
If gal 1. Paul tells us prety much that if someone changes one word, adds one word, or takes away one word of the gospel it is not gospel at all. and to be accursed.
If paul considered it a damnable offense, I think we should also.
Dear reader, I do not understand EG because he simply wants to state His case as if this is the only interpretation.
For me this defines a cult. Rather than being honest about different points of view, they just state their point of view and refuse to admit the range of opinions and emphasis there are there. Without this kind of honesty nothing is reliable or worthwhile because it just becomes an obsession, but you can learn the style and approach.
For me this defines a cult. Rather than being honest about different points of view, they just state their point of view and refuse to admit the range of opinions and emphasis there are there. Without this kind of honesty nothing is reliable or worthwhile because it just becomes an obsession, but you can learn the style and approach.
E
He is talking to churches, NOT INDIVIDUAL first off.
second, if you think you can be victorious, Have at it,, I will continue to trust in Christ, and not my own power..
if that makes you mad, so be it..
What your doing is making one part of scripture contradict another part of scripture. we do not just take parts of scripture my itsef and make up doctrines, Thats what God the jews in trouble.
Yep they did repent.
And like The author of hebrews said, They are not of thse who fall back to perdition.. Because they had true faith whcih came from a true repentance..
GRACE IS A GIFT, IT IS NOT EARNED.
get that in your head, and you may finally figure out Gods mystery.
Keep trying to make Gods gift of eternal life earned,, And you will be like the jews, and never find Gods truth.
second, if you think you can be victorious, Have at it,, I will continue to trust in Christ, and not my own power..
if that makes you mad, so be it..
What your doing is making one part of scripture contradict another part of scripture. we do not just take parts of scripture my itsef and make up doctrines, Thats what God the jews in trouble.
Yep they did repent.
And like The author of hebrews said, They are not of thse who fall back to perdition.. Because they had true faith whcih came from a true repentance..
GRACE IS A GIFT, IT IS NOT EARNED.
get that in your head, and you may finally figure out Gods mystery.
Keep trying to make Gods gift of eternal life earned,, And you will be like the jews, and never find Gods truth.