Faith is our righteousness - Christ is our sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear reader, I do not understand EG because he simply wants to state His case as if this is the only interpretation.

Is this not what your doing??

You make me laugh sometimes Peter. You judge everyone else for doing the very things you do yourself..

For me this defines a cult.

Thanks, you just admitted your in a cult..

Rather than being honest about different points of view, they just state their point of view and refuse to admit the range of opinions and emphasis there are there.

I admitted your opinion.. I admitted we did not agree,

Unlike you, I looked to other aspects of scripture to solve our differences..

Thats why you get yourself in so much trouble, yui pic a verse, demand everyone believe as you do. and that's it..

Without this kind of honesty nothing is reliable or worthwhile because it just becomes an obsession, but you can learn the style and approach.

So thanks, You just told everyone they should not listen to you..

Thanks for helping me out..

 

[PeterJens]

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
Phil 2:12

My friends for a person who spent 20+ years in church, witnessing and have a full ministry, yet now considers this legalism and he was lost and not saved, but now his position though different is yet absolutely secure and true, and has not woken up to this security he hangs on to so much is his personality and not the gospel, I would fear that this man does not know what he is talking about. I am mortal and limited, I trust my heart, my spiritual experience, the word, God, love, those I fellowship with, and they all testify of God and Jesus. But I know tomorrow is a new day, and new things will arrive, so unless things change I am secure in my faith, but still limited. This is all I know in anyones life and testimony, and is as much as I would expect.

If I am condemned for this, I wonder who it is who is condemning and are they walking with Jesus or just desire provocation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
Phil 2:12

My friends for a person who spent 20+ years in church, witnessing and have a full ministry, yet now considers this legalism and he was lost and not saved, but now his position though different is yet absolutely secure and true, and has not woken up to this security he hangs on to so much is his personality and not the gospel, I would fear that this man does not know what he is talking about. I am mortal and limited, I trust my heart, my spiritual experience, the word, God, love, those I fellowship with, and they all testify of God and Jesus. But I know tomorrow is a new day, and new things will arrive, so unless things change I am secure in my faith, but still limited. This is all I know in anyones life and testimony, and is as much as I would expect.

If I am condemned for this, I wonder who it is who is condemning and are they walking with Jesus or just desire provocation.

dude all you know how to do is attack. It is all you have, That alone will tell the world not to listen to you.

As for the passage.. Paul is telling them to work out THEIR SALVATION, it is already theirs, it is in their possession, They own it.

He is not telling them to work to earn salvation. He is saying, work out the salvation you have,,, AND IN FEAR, AMEN AND AMEN,

Paul wa sso afraid one thing he would do may destroy his reputation, and his word.. We all should have this fear. Because WE ARE LIGHTS IN A WICKED AND PERVERSE GENERATION.

Not only have you gotten this wrong, But your so eagher to attack, you got the other wrong too... If a person is in bondage for 20 years and finds freedom, HE HAS EXPERIENCED SALVATION... we should listen to them... Not to people who do nto think they even need saved.

 

[PeterJens]

Over the last 2 hours I am not sure I have actually had any reasonable responses from EG, not one.

I just wonder what motivates him?

Rev 2 is a warning to churches. It is do something or bad things will occur, If you do something you will be victorious and you will get a reward.

Now the proposal is this is unbelievers and believers. The unbelievers need to respond, but nothing for the believers because they have arrived. Now maybe this filter helps some, but it does not answer the issue at all. If it is actually for unbelievers, then it is not to the church but to those being witnessed to. This is odd at at is addressed to a church which is the body of believers in a location, so it sounds just like an excuse to rubbish an obvious problem in theology.

Now I would be happy to hear another interpretation, but that is all I can go with, unless there is a clear alternative.

 

[PeterJens]

dude all you know how to do is attack. It is all you have, That alone will tell the world not to listen to you.

As for the passage.. Paul is telling them to work out THEIR SALVATION, it is already theirs, it is in their possession, They own it.

He is not telling them to work to earn salvation. He is saying, work out the salvation you have,,, AND IN FEAR, AMEN AND AMEN,

Paul wa sso afraid one thing he would do may destroy his reputation, and his word.. We all should have this fear. Because WE ARE LIGHTS IN A WICKED AND PERVERSE GENERATION.

Not only have you gotten this wrong, But your so eagher to attack, you got the other wrong too... If a person is in bondage for 20 years and finds freedom, HE HAS EXPERIENCED SALVATION... we should listen to them... Not to people who do nto think they even need saved.

EG you are continually agressive, never understanding and always saying something I have not said.
The reason for quoting this verse was about our uncertainty and humbleness.

I have not got anything wrong, but you want to say I have. What I have observed is the work the Lord did in your life over 20 years you rubbished completely. I find that very odd. How is it the gospel to which a sinner responds to on hearing took you into later life when you had heared everything for decades to suddenly turn on the light.

I would suggest rather your inner conflicts caused you to leave the faith you knew to a different one, which you are now preaching to everyone who will listen. I have to say this is 100% odd because the bible has not changed or your background, but now the "new" revelation is meant to supplant the same faith you held before, with the same God, the same saviour, the same Lord, the same bible, the same Holy Spirit, the same walk. Unless you can get a clearer understanding you are just talking rubbish.

 

[PeterJens]

This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1 John 5:2

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1 John 5:2

lol, Yes,

But it does not prove anything, Even the world can appear to obey Gods commands..

where does that leave us? If this is true, anyone can be saved?

You think posting some scripture makes you a person of God. Pharisees did this alot.

You think boasting of how righteous you are while judging sinners makes you a believer? Again, Pharisees did this, that proves nothing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG you are continually agressive, never understanding and always saying something I have not said.

You have been doing this since I first talked to you, You do it to everybody.. So when are you going to stop attacking people. yelling at them for doing WHAT YOU DO. and start listening to what people say?

The reason for quoting this verse was about our uncertainty and humbleness.

so you posted a verse, Followed by attacking me,, And it is for humility and humbleness??

I guess you do not understand what they are either..

I have not got anything wrong,

There is your first mistake, if we believe this, we are unteachable. and if we are wrong, WE ARE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE.
nothing else needs to be said of this subject, You made it clear. You are unteachable..

I would suggest rather your inner conflicts caused you to leave the faith you knew to a different one, which you are now preaching to everyone who will listen.

I have no inner conflict.. If I still had inner conflict. I would never bring up my past mistakes..

I have to say this is 100% odd because the bible has not changed or your background, but now the "new" revelation is meant to supplant the same faith you held before, with the same God, the same saviour, the same Lord, the same bible, the same Holy Spirit, the same walk. Unless you can get a clearer understanding you are just talking rubbish.

So everyone who ever went to church had it right at one time, And if they change their view. they are in trouble?

What if I am catholic? or church of Christ? Or mormon or jehova's witness?? If they repent and come out from their thinking, ar eyou going to judge them as harshy as you judge me?

Your just mad because I learned the truth of Gods grace ad came out of legalism..

well guess what, the same thing happened to paul Did that mean he was evil, and unlearned as you say I am for doing the vcery same thing he did?

 

[skylove7]

True....
Eternally Grateful


Them old Pharisees is old demons lol
Their power doomed
Has cob webs on it lol
Taken care of....
Says Holy Spirit

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Over the last 2 hours I am not sure I have actually had any reasonable responses from EG, not one.

I have yet t have one from you in weeks..

Yet you do not see me attacking you do you. Why do you thin this is?

I just wonder what motivates him?

Maybe your eternal destination?

Rev 2 is a warning to churches. It is do something or bad things will occur, If you do something you will be victorious and you will get a reward.

eternal life is a gift not a reward. So your whole line of reasoning is flawed

reward is not a gift, never has been , never will be.. It is a wage..

again, romans 4 would serve you well..

Now the proposal is this is unbelievers and believers. The unbelievers need to respond, but nothing for the believers because they have arrived. Now maybe this filter helps some, but it does not answer the issue at all. If it is actually for unbelievers, then it is not to the church but to those being witnessed to. This is odd at at is addressed to a church which is the body of believers in a location, so it sounds just like an excuse to rubbish an obvious problem in theology.

A believer has to respind, because they are working for rewards.

An unbeliever has to respond, Because his eternity is at stake, and god is offering them a GIFT..

You do not get the difference..


Until you do, you will never understad grace, EVER!

Now I would be happy to hear another interpretation, but that is all I can go with, unless there is a clear alternative.

1. Stop listening to men
2. open your heart
3. pray to God, ask him to open your eyes
4. Finally realist, Eternal life is the gift of God, through Jesus, Rewards are wages, or things earned for work done.

One is not the other..

You can not earn eternal life

You will not be given rewards you have not earned..

 

[PeterJens]

In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
1 John 5:3-5

"His commands are not burdensome" - now some seem to believe obeying Christ and following His commands is impossible.
John does not appear to believe this.

And we are overcomers of the world - again it appears some claim they have overcome nothing and are victims of their sinful nature that still dominates their lives. It is as if though they claim to be walking with Jesus they are not experiencing the victory Peter is talking about.

We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.
1 John 5:18

God keeps us safe, the evil one cannot harm them. It should really bother those who find the evil one can harm them, and they have such trouble. Possibly there is a spiritual problem in their walk, and they have let sin and lies enter themselves and they have been handed over as Paul said he was going to do to a believer.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
1 John 5:3-5

"His commands are not burdensome" - now some seem to believe obeying Christ and following His commands is impossible.
John does not appear to believe this.

And we are overcomers of the world - again it appears some claim they have overcome nothing and are victims of their sinful nature that still dominates their lives. It is as if though they claim to be walking with Jesus they are not experiencing the victory Peter is talking about.

We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.
1 John 5:18

God keeps us safe, the evil one cannot harm them. It should really bother those who find the evil one can harm them, and they have such trouble. Possibly there is a spiritual problem in their walk, and they have let sin and lies enter themselves and they have been handed over as Paul said he was going to do to a believer.

It should really bother people that Peter can say he believes in this, then claim Satan can harm people cause them to walk away from God and lose salvation..

Scripture says satan is the ruller of this world. Anyone who walks in the ruled follows their father the devil.

So lets all ask Peter. Why does peter not believe God when he says he will keep us safe?? Why does he not believe in the power of God to change people so they do not fall back to the world?? Peter I fear for Peters soul..

 

[psalm6819]

Conduct is the proof of faith.

Conduct is proof of conduct not motivation.

 

[PeterJens]

I started this thread to have a discussion about faith being our righteousness rather than Christs imputed righteousness.

A young boy was quoted as stating to his dad that God only sees Christs righteousness when he looks at us.
Now I kind of understand the idea, but it sounds wrong. It also sounds wrong in sanctification that the failure and sin that is being worked through is not covered over. I in the past regarded this as the direction of the walk, ie faith in Christ, but had not articulated it in this way. It appears Paul has, and Hebrews carries this idea forward.

It also dove tails neatly into communion being the core to the walk with God, because only in the walk can we truly know what to do next. It also fits well that though one could obey the commandments, without communion and faith it would be meaningless and like Paul you could end up persecuting those who truly know God.

So I wonder who on this site hold to imputed righteousness by Christ?

 

[oldethennew]

each individual's Faith can only be imputed by Christ, ie God the Father.....

SACRIFICE=ADOPTION=our personal walk with our Saviour.....

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I started this thread to have a discussion about faith being our righteousness rather than Christs imputed righteousness.

A young boy was quoted as stating to his dad that God only sees Christs righteousness when he looks at us.
Now I kind of understand the idea, but it sounds wrong. It also sounds wrong in sanctification that the failure and sin that is being worked through is not covered over. I in the past regarded this as the direction of the walk, ie faith in Christ, but had not articulated it in this way. It appears Paul has, and Hebrews carries this idea forward.

It also dove tails neatly into communion being the core to the walk with God, because only in the walk can we truly know what to do next. It also fits well that though one could obey the commandments, without communion and faith it would be meaningless and like Paul you could end up persecuting those who truly know God.

So I wonder who on this site hold to imputed righteousness by Christ?

Faith is not righteousness. Christ's righteousness is imputed to us through faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I started this thread to have a discussion about faith being our righteousness rather than Christs imputed righteousness.

So your righteousness is more important than Christs..

You should stop talking, You keep making it worse.

A young boy was quoted as stating to his dad that God only sees Christs righteousness when he looks at us.
Now I kind of understand the idea, but it sounds wrong. It also sounds wrong in sanctification that the failure and sin that is being worked through is not covered over. I in the past regarded this as the direction of the walk, ie faith in Christ, but had not articulated it in this way. It appears Paul has, and Hebrews carries this idea forward.

It also dove tails neatly into communion being the core to the walk with God, because only in the walk can we truly know what to do next. It also fits well that though one could obey the commandments, without communion and faith it would be meaningless and like Paul you could end up persecuting those who truly know God.

So I wonder who on this site hold to imputed righteousness by Christ?

If we do not hold into imputed righteousness, We have to ignore Gods word.. Thats says it is Christs righteousness, not our own, which saves us, Based on Gods mercy..

Even Abraham believed God, and to him was imputed righteousness. It is a thing called Justification.

But hey, if you want to try to hold your righteousness up to Gods.. Feel free..

 

[PeterJens]

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Peter 2:1

We have a simple problem. Many grow among us, appear like us yet wander off, follow other things and ways.
I cannot say were they born of God, could they lead the elect astray?

All I can say is we need to test the teaching and walk in love. There appears no value in testing people as to their faith or position, other than to discuss and look at what scripture teaches and how we can walk.

I do not know why people walk away, change their doctrines, preach heresy, fall into adultery, corruption, lying etc. but they do all the time. For some it is stumbling, for others they never return.

I am not sure I can say more, God gives His promises to His people, but until that day we will only know at a distance who is called. But I think that is best, because many take a long time to work through issues in their souls before they get it sorted.

 

[ember]

Conduct is the proof of faith.

so if my neighbor who is an atheist behaves well, he has proof of faith?

whaa?

I don't usually take a statement and turn it into a question that showcases the fallacy of the statement, but in this case I am making an exception

 

[FreeNChrist]

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Peter 2:1

We have a simple problem. Many grow among us, appear like us yet wander off, follow other things and ways.
I cannot say were they born of God, could they lead the elect astray?

All I can say is we need to test the teaching and walk in love. There appears no value in testing people as to their faith or position, other than to discuss and look at what scripture teaches and how we can walk.

I do not know why people walk away, change their doctrines, preach heresy, fall into adultery, corruption, lying etc. but they do all the time. For some it is stumbling, for others they never return.

I am not sure I can say more, God gives His promises to His people, but until that day we will only know at a distance who is called. But I think that is best, because many take a long time to work through issues in their souls before they get it sorted.

Its really not that hard to understand......

[h=1]1 John 2:19

"They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us"[/h]