Did He, Or Didn't He?

[PeterJens]

Funny thing is all the people here claim to have some theological knowledge of both scripture and church history.

In the right corner we have the mystic charismatics who hold to hyper-grace or NAR.

In the left we traditional christians who hold to working out your salvation in fear and trembling.

As we both know each others positions, why is there so much hostility?

 

[PeterJens]

I have been reading my bible and they simply knew Jesus and followed what he commanded.
As they had need the Lord supplied. The theology was live a pure life, walk in the spirit and God will help you do the rest.

Now we have mystical spirits, going into 3rd heavens, portals, strange prophecies and a lack of biblical teaching.

Not suprisingly if someone actually believes the bible and walks in it he must be evil.

But then it has never been different, so praise the Lord, He is a great saviour who blesses us with his Holy Spirit and love.

 

[ember]

Funny thing is all the people here claim to have some theological knowledge of both scripture and church history.

In the right corner we have the mystic charismatics who hold to hyper-grace or NAR.

In the left we traditional christians who hold to working out your salvation in fear and trembling.

As we both know each others positions, why is there so much hostility?

what I want to know, (rhetorically speaking of course) is how you can possibly believe you are somehow holy?

YOU want to know why there is so much hostility?

gee...that is not a question most of us are going to take seriously coming from YOU of all people!

when I think back on how you attacked me personally and told the entire forum God told you to attack me and said other very personal things to me, I start to think that you either have a very bad memory, you are a blatant liar who does not even believe in God and you are only here to cause trouble OR, you are a psychopath

so, like, it's gotta be one of the above, right?

 

[BenFTW]

Funny thing is all the people here claim to have some theological knowledge of both scripture and church history.

In the right corner we have the mystic charismatics who hold to hyper-grace or NAR.

In the left we traditional christians who hold to working out your salvation in fear and trembling.

As we both know each others positions, why is there so much hostility?

Fear and trembling is misunderstood. It means a "lack of trust in one's own abilities." In other words, we are dependent upon Jesus Christ and rest in Him. Look in the Greek and other verses that use that saying, even the apostle Paul spoke of preaching with fear and much trembling, meaning distrusting in his own abilities and relying on the Spirit's power.

 

[ember]

I have been reading my bible and they simply knew Jesus and followed what he commanded.
As they had need the Lord supplied. The theology was live a pure life, walk in the spirit and God will help you do the rest.

Now we have mystical spirits, going into 3rd heavens, portals, strange prophecies and a lack of biblical teaching.

Not suprisingly if someone actually believes the bible and walks in it he must be evil.

But then it has never been different, so praise the Lord, He is a great saviour who blesses us with his Holy Spirit and love.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. JAMES 2:19

 

[ember]

In the right corner we have the mystic charismatics who hold to hyper-grace or NAR.

those corners are in your own mind

and apparently, they are spinning out of control

 

[thepsalmist]

Thanks for your response to my question, Ben.

I have no intention of arguing about what you say ...

it is your right to hold the beliefs that you do.

I also have a right to believe what I believe.

FOR MYSELF ...

I will hold tight to every word Jesus spoke in the gospels without dividing them into pre-cross and post-cross statements.

Peace and love~

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Spokesperson for Gnosticism, title awarded to HeRoseFromTheDead. You seem really obsessed with Gnosticism. The Gospel isn't Gnosticism and you keep defining it as such. Surely you would accuse the apostles of the same thing if you sat listening to them preach.

You and others who channel this spirit are too afraid to engage me directly because I know what I'm talking about, and you subconsciously know that your spirit will be exposed.

FWIW, all of the church fathers up until Augustine witnessed of man's free will. Augustine, the Manichean gnostic convert, taught that man was completely depraved (as the gnostics believed), and that man's free will became permanently impaired by the fall, and remains in bondage even after regeneration. This falsehood lies at the root of this controversy that we are currently experiencing, because Protestant theology is just a continuation and expansion of Augustinian theology.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Fear and trembling is misunderstood. It means a "lack of trust in one's own abilities." In other words, we are dependent upon Jesus Christ and rest in Him. Look in the Greek and other verses that use that saying, even the apostle Paul spoke of preaching with fear and much trembling, meaning distrusting in his own abilities and relying on the Spirit's power.

Don't forget this

And do not fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul, but instead fear the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28​

 

[Magenta]

You and others who channel this spirit are too afraid to engage me directly because I know what I'm talking about, and you subconsciously know that your spirit will be exposed.

FWIW, all of the church fathers up until Augustine witnessed of man's free will. Augustine, the Manichean gnostic convert, taught that man was completely depraved (as the gnostics believed), and that man's free will became permanently impaired by the fall, and remains in bondage even after regeneration. This falsehood lies at the root of this controversy that we are currently experiencing, because Protestant theology is just a continuation and expansion of Augustinian theology.

I agree, there is too much Roman Catholic influence

 

[PeterJens]

It sounds to me you have put too much thought into it.

Paul preached in fear and trembling. I think he was a very brave man, and often knew the situations were very dangerous, his life was on the line. I like the idea of bringing things back to simple life issues.

Jesus on the cross, in front of us, dying to save us. That is very humbling and real. In many ways it is hard to live with this idea because it is so brutal. Victory power of the resurrection, the Holy Spirit anointing, walking in purity and holiness.

Purity and holiness, hard concepts. Whole christian movements have aimed to walk in these things, communion with God helping us overcome our past and our carnal desires. I want to know more of this.

And yes I fail. Yes I have said a word here or there which gets remember and not forgiven, expanded into something else, but still the Lord is God. Do I regret trying? No, because without trying you never achieve and without knowing your enemy and being able to love them you never overcome. But why are you here? Are you here to serve our Lord or to fight others?

 

[BenFTW]

Thanks for your response to my question, Ben.

I have no intention of arguing about what you say ...

it is your right to hold the beliefs that you do.

I also have a right to believe what I believe.

FOR MYSELF ...

I will hold tight to every word Jesus spoke in the gospels without dividing them into pre-cross and post-cross statements.

Peace and love~

Oh believe me, I hold what Jesus said dearly. For example, when He spoke of cutting off your hand or gouging out your eye to enter Heaven an amputee instead of Hell whole, people say, "He was only joking. Hyperbole." Yet it seems to me He was rather pointing to the truth that the law required perfection. This statement cannot be said to a post-cross believer as their perfection is found in Christ, being made perfect. This, however, can be said to a man under the law, to make him realize perfection is required and such a man would see his need for Jesus.

You see, it isn't about ignoring Christ's words, but properly applying them and putting them in context.

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen...

it is an interesting to study out in the N.T. the term "fear and trembling". It is not what it was in the O.T.

If we let scripture interpret scripture we see that in the 2 other places where "fear and trembling" was used it referred to the woman with the issue of blood and Jesus healed her. She experienced the goodness and love of Jesus and she had awe and reverence for the goodness done to her.

Mark 5:33 (KJV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.


The other usage was Paul and he was referring to having no confidence in himself as he was coming to preach the gospel to the Corinthians. 1 Cor. 2:3-5

Fear and trembling = being in awe and reverence of the goodness of God to us and our complete reliance on Him for all things..especially in preaching the gospel.

It is never being "afraid" of God. It's knowing His love for us that takes away the bad kind of fear.

1 John 4:17-19 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Fear and trembling is misunderstood. It means a "lack of trust in one's own abilities." In other words, we are dependent upon Jesus Christ and rest in Him. Look in the Greek and other verses that use that saying, even the apostle Paul spoke of preaching with fear and much trembling, meaning distrusting in his own abilities and relying on the Spirit's power.

 

[BenFTW]

You and others who channel this spirit are too afraid to engage me directly because I know what I'm talking about, and you subconsciously know that your spirit will be exposed.

FWIW, all of the church fathers up until Augustine witnessed of man's free will. Augustine, the Manichean gnostic convert, taught that man was completely depraved (as the gnostics believed), and that man's free will became permanently impaired by the fall, and remains in bondage even after regeneration. This falsehood lies at the root of this controversy that we are currently experiencing, because Protestant theology is just a continuation and expansion of Augustinian theology.

I engage you at every turn but your only retort is to cry, 'Gnosticism!" This doesn't help anyone, and only deters people from the truth. You don't even offer an alternative. At the least you should offer guests and readers that. Actually, maybe its better that you don't teach. lol

 

[ember]

you know, it just goes on and on and on

there are 2 posters in here who consistently attack other posters rather than simply respond to the idea or belief

when that is pointed out, one of them withdraws and the other goes all...'who me? oh that's not me at all...I mean I was reading my Bible when all that stuff went down'

so many things that could be discussed and even learned from if the PERSONAL attacks would stop

however, if a person cannot bear to have their pet doctrine questioned, or core belief possibly proven wrong from scripture, and they resort to personal attack and calling names, then a thread becomes a war zone

I mean, in what universe is it ok to consistently attack and say things that are such obvious untruths as to sound bizarre when repeated out loud?

those who are attacking the doctrine of grace do so out of a necessity to protect their own beliefs which they obviously came here with long before this thread was born

 

[Magenta]

Oh believe me, I hold what Jesus said dearly. For example, when He spoke of cutting off your hand or gouging out your eye to enter Heaven an amputee instead of Hell whole, people say, "He was only joking. Hyperbole." Yet it seems to me He was rather pointing to the truth that the law required perfection. This statement cannot be said to a post-cross believer as their perfection is found in Christ, being made perfect. This, however, can be said to a man under the law, to make him realize perfection is required and such a man would see his need for Jesus.

You see, it isn't about ignoring Christ's words, but properly applying them and putting them in context.

Does hyperbole really equal joking? I wish people would talk straight.

 

[ember]

Watch this and you will see a lot of what is going on even in CC...this guy describes what is happening to a "t"...( what ever "t" means...)

[video=vimeo;11804054]https://vimeo.com/11804054[/video]

I watched Joseph Prince yesterday and he made mention of the fact that the doctrine of grace, GODS'S grace, is under attack today like never before

So many trying to work their way to heaven and impress God along the way
QUOTE]

exactly what he said!!!!

 

[Magenta]

I engage you at every turn but your only retort is to cry, 'Gnosticism!" This doesn't help anyone, and only deters people from the truth. You don't even offer an alternative. At the least you should offer guests and readers that. Actually, maybe its better that you don't teach. lol

HeRose does teach. Perhaps you need to be willing to learn to be teachable.

 

[BenFTW]

Does hyperbole really equal joking? I wish people would talk straight.

Not necessarily, it can be used to make a point. However His words are dismissed and the meaning blurred when people make it a call to morality instead of a reliance on Jesus.

 

[Magenta]

Not necessarily, it can be used to make a point. However His words are dismissed and the meaning blurred when people make it a call to morality instead of a reliance on Jesus.

I would not say the meaning is blurred at all. Jesus is pointing out the dire seriousness of sin.