An Often Overlooked Sign of the Last Days

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Complete_In_Him

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MAD teaches that Christ proclaimed the gospel of the kingdom to those living under the old covenant, and then sent Paul to proclaim a different gospel (gospel of grace, I guess they call it) to the gentiles. Two distinct gospels. What it teaches in regards to eschatology, I'm like Ranger Doug: I don't know and I don't have to know.
Address me, I am the one you label as mid-acts. You know enough to be dangerous, and a detriment to the faith and cause of Christ. I have said before, I fellowship with dispensationalist, do you? They actually define gospel(s). MAD believes and teaches there is one gospel by which we are saved, and rightly so.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Jesus does say that He "knows" His sheep. I know that this truth interfers with a "works-based" theology.

Those in matt 7 "said" ( did we not do prophesying, cast out demons and doing many wonderful works in His name )..They are merely CLAIMING that what they did was in His name....they are from their father the devil and are lying .

..because IF they were actually doing those things under the power of the Holy Spirit - they would belong to Him. Why would He throw them out just because they did "good works"?

Jesus said in verse "I NEVER knew you"..so there goes out the window the fact that Jesus knew them at one time as a sheep.

We don't change species from a sheep to a goat and then back to a sheep if we are good..then back to a goat if we do something wrong. We are either a sheep or a goat..there are no "shoats"


Go read the parable of the tares in Matt 13 and you will see the tares that work lawlessness are the ones sown by satan and that the angels will separate them out at the end of the age. Remember they look like wheat but inwardly they are not because they don't belong to Christ.






The reason the idea that they weren't believers to begin with doesn't work, is because by their prophesying in His Name, casting out devils in His Name, and doing many wonderful works in His Name. Can't do that if you don't... believe.
 
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DP

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Jesus does say that He "knows" His sheep. I know that this truth interfers with a "works-based" theology.

Those in matt 7 "said" ( did we not do prophesying, cast out demons and doing many wonderful works in His name )..They are merely CLAIMING that what they did was in His name....they are from their father the devil and are lying .

..because IF they were actually doing those things under the power of the Holy Spirit - they would belong to Him. Why would He throw them out just because they did "good works"?

Jesus said in verse "I NEVER knew you"..so there goes out the window the fact that Jesus knew them at one time as a sheep.

We don't change species from a sheep to a goat and then back to a sheep if we are good..then back to a goat if we do something wrong. We are either a sheep or a goat..there are no "shoats"


Go read the parable of the tares in Matt 13 and you will see the tares that work lawlessness are the ones sown by satan and that the angels will separate them out at the end of the age. Remember they look like wheat but inwardly they are not because they don't belong to Christ.
You're just straining at a gnat with that.

Satan's servants aren't going to be doing those good works Jesus labeled those of Matt.7 with. It's clear their intention was to follow Jesus, but they just though to do it THEIR WAY, and not His. This is why He rebuked the scribes and Pharisees so often, because they created their own set of rules and traditions outside of His Word and they thought they were right.
 
E

ember

Guest
read the first and last page of this thread

deception is the mask of guile used by the devil and many wear it these days

in particular, I found Pilgrim's post to be insightful

This:

Because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


is imperative in understanding how to avoid deception

if you have ever known a deceived person who confesses their salvation and acknowledges that Jesus is their Savior, then you better understand why loving the truth is one of the most important things in your life...or should be

many are content and complacent in their denial of truth

I very much disagree with certain of the posts here, no need to get into it.

I believe that deception takes on a demonic undertone and eventually a demonic overtone when one continues in it. So, get to know the Truth, love the Truth, follow the Truth...learn the Truth...

some of you will understand and some of you will automatically reject what I say

I'm good. It's not up to me what all you do.

The other noteworthy item in Pilgrim's post is this (mind you it was all good as scripture tends to be)

the LORD hath put a lying spiritin the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
it still happens and it's pretty much everywhere


Works won't save you...only Jesus will. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
 
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Nov 22, 2015
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Jesus said "I NEVER" knew you....so Jesus said these were not His sheep at any time....let alone at the end of the age when they are being dealt with.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


But Jesus did say to the Pharisees that their sons did cast out demons too....so obviously it does happen..how?.. I don't know or care....I don't let obscure passages rob me of the plain truth in the abundance of clear scriptures..

.I'm a sheep..I believe and follow Him..I will never change species and become a goat.



Matthew 12:27 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges.




You're just straining at a gnat with that.

Satan's servants aren't going to be doing those good works Jesus labeled those of Matt.7 with. It's clear their intention was to follow Jesus, but they just though to do it THEIR WAY, and not His. This is why He rebuked the scribes and Pharisees so often, because they created their own set of rules and traditions outside of His Word and they thought they were right.
 
E

ember

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I am truly sorry this thread appears to be devolving into the usual debate.

I really am.
 
Feb 11, 2016
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But they obviously think that they were believers for they will say 'Lord, Lord'. They may even think they are spiritual and follow the "spirit", not realizing that they have been deceived by false teachers and doctrine to follow their own spirit instead of Christ's spirit.
Yeah that Lord Lord twice always reminded me of a doubleminded man.

Just as you might see Jesus address Martha, as "Martha, Martha. Or adress Simon as "Simon Simon" shown before he is converted even as he would adress Saul (later called Paul) as "Saul, Saul" (again before). Just as equally those defined as "the foolish" (in contrast to the wise, which are likened such as those who hear his words and do them). The foolish rather (in respects to the sure foundation, even the rock) of "hearing and doing" are to the contrary. These being considered as them building on sinking sand and adressing Jesus in that state las Lord, Lord as well.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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As Christians our "spirit" is not independent of the Lord. We are one with Him. There are over 80 scriptures in Paul's letters alone that talk about the true Christian being in Christ and being one with Him now.

1 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Romans 1:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Romans 7:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Ephesians 4:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If
Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.


 

DP

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Sep 27, 2015
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Jesus said "I NEVER" knew you....so Jesus said these were not His sheep at any time....let alone at the end of the age when they are being dealt with.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


But Jesus did say to the Pharisees that their sons did cast out demons too....so obviously it does happen..how?.. I don't know or care....I don't let obscure passages rob me of the plain truth in the abundance of clear scriptures..

.I'm a sheep..I believe and follow Him..I will never change species and become a goat.



Matthew 12:27 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges.
This is what happened when the unbeliever TRIED to cast out demons in the Name of our Lord Jesus:

Acts 19:13-16
13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, "We adjure you by Jesus Whom Paul preacheth."


14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.


15 And the evil spirit answered and said, "Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?"


16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
KJV

You see, that won't work for the unbeliever.

That's another reason we KNOW our Lord Jesus was speaking about believers on Him in the Matt.7 example.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
MAD teaches that Christ proclaimed the gospel of the kingdom to those living under the old covenant, and then sent Paul to proclaim a different gospel (gospel of grace, I guess they call it) to the gentiles. Two distinct gospels. What it teaches in regards to eschatology, I'm like Ranger Doug: I don't know and I don't have to know.
Never heard of MAD
Where do you come up with this stuff??

Don;t you ever just listen to what people say to find out what they REALLY BELIEVE?

I hate to say it, but you have no respect for anyone..
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Jesus list things in the Olivet prophecy, that must come to pass before his return.
the first one that is over looked is religious deception , started way back then.

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come,
even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Why did John not wright about olivet promise? He did
Johns virsion of the Olivet prophecy, Revelation,chapter 6.

first four seals refered as The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah,the Root of David,
hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof” (Revelation 5:5).

- this happened just after Christ returned to heaven he unlocks this prophecy.

Christ starts his church on pentacost,- see the woman in rev.12 .
also unlocking the anti church started- the woman we see in rev 17

And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow;
and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

a key here is, he has a bow, not a sword, and has no arrows.
The first and most deadly horseman is religious deception!

The word conquer means “to come off with the victory” that
the largest organized religious “cult”on Earth today waged
the bloodiest battles ever, in the name of God. This horseman
has wreaked havoc on mankind with religious wars throughout history.

The first is religious deception, next is war, then famine, the fourth pestilence

John’s vision, revealed by Jesus Christ and recorded for us today in Revelation 6:1-8,
differs only slightly from the Olivet prophecy in Matthew 24 and the other Gospel accounts.

Josephus describes in graphic detail the wars and resultant famine and plagues in Jerusalem
about a.d.?70, almost 40 years after the Olivet prophecy was first given.

(Josephus’s Wars of the Jews, which tells of thousands of Jews being impaled by the Romans.)

Yes, what Christ said in Matthew 24 indeed had a typical fulfillment in a.d.?70.
But John’s vision was recorded 20 years after the city’s fall and the temple’s destruction.


first is religious deception, next is war, then famine.

With the fourth, pestilence, these horsemen represent the final, end-time culmination of the most
traumatic problems endured by a rebellious mankind. They picture one of the most ominous
scenarios ever. It is imperative that each of us take heed while there is still time.

“And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come
and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death,
and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth,
to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth”

The context mentions two of the other horsemen—war and famine.
But we cannot be certain of the symbolism of the last horseman from this passage.
The key word to its identity is the word pale, which often makes us think of someone
who is feeling sick, having an anemic-looking appearance.

Pale is translated from the Greek chloros, which we would normally take to mean the
color of chlorophyll, the property that gives plants their healthy green appearance.
When used biblically, however, chloros means the sickly pale green color of sickness and disease.

Other biblical translations describe the pale horse as an ash-colored horse, a horse sickly green,
a horse sickly pale and an ashy pale horse. We have continually stressed throughout that we should
look to Christ the Revelator to explain these seals and symbols. He provides us with the most correct
word to unlock the true identity of this pale green horse which man’s best translations cannot:

“and there shall be pestilences” (Matthew 24:7). The man on the pale horse symbolizes climactic,
globe-encircling plagues and pandemics occurring and soon to occur in this modern age!

Look up pestilence in any Bible concordance and you will be amazed by the link
between the second, third and fourth horsemen representing war, famine and pestilence
(Jeremiah 21:9; 27:13; 29:17-18; 32:24; 34:17; 38:2; 42:16-17; 44:13).

These three horsemen derive their origin directly from the first horseman of religious deception,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am truly sorry this thread appears to be devolving into the usual debate.

I really am.
Yeah, What happened to the OP? sorry Crossnote!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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MAD teaches that Christ proclaimed the gospel of the kingdom to those living under the old covenant, and then sent Paul to proclaim a different gospel (gospel of grace, I guess they call it) to the gentiles. Two distinct gospels. What it teaches in regards to eschatology, I'm like Ranger Doug: I don't know and I don't have to know.
Mad's distinction from classical dispensational teaching is their undue emphasis on Paul and how the Church started at Paul's conversion rather than Pentecost. Still, it doesn't deserve the label 'cursed'.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Jesus said "I NEVER knew you "in Matt 7:23....so Jesus said these were not His sheep at any time....let alone at the end of the age when they are being dealt with.

I'm sorry but the words of Jesus in the "Lord, Lord" Matt 7 scriptures above clearly refute the below theory that He Knew them as proposed. .

. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Bless you and have a great weekend!

That's another reason we KNOW our Lord Jesus was speaking about believers on Him in the Matt.7 example.
 

DP

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Sep 27, 2015
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Some folks on this thread hate so much admitting that they can still sin, that they will create contrivance against the need to repent to our Lord Jesus of future sin after having believed on Him, like our Lord Jesus and His Apostle John taught (Luke 11; 1 John 1).

Even the prayer in Luke 11 our Lord Jesus gave us to pray includes asking Him forgiveness of future sin, and also forgiving those who sin against us! I fail to see why some folks here have a problem with that. What are they being taught instead in their Churches? Obviously things of men that lead them away from inspecting themselves to know when they do have future sin.
 

DP

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Sep 27, 2015
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I am truly sorry this thread appears to be devolving into the usual debate.

I really am.
Well, as usual, it's those on men's doctrines of Hyper-Grace that keep starting it.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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In Scripture, there are two kingdoms being proclaimed. The first is the physical kingdom or the kingdom of heaven. The second is the kingdom of God or the spiritual kingdom. The physical kingdom was offered to the Jews during the ministry of Jesus and His disciples. This kingdom of heaven has been suspended because of their rejection. The kingdom of God is the only kingdom in play during this dispensation. One can only enter the kingdom of God through grace in the finished work of the cross. One must be born again. Once this dispensation is over, God re-instates His program promised to the nation of Israel to restore their kingdom. In the second coming of Christ, both kingdoms will be realized by all.


MAD teaches that Christ proclaimed the gospel of the kingdom to those living under the old covenant, and then sent Paul to proclaim a different gospel (gospel of grace, I guess they call it) to the gentiles. Two distinct gospels. What it teaches in regards to eschatology, I'm like Ranger Doug: I don't know and I don't have to know.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Well, as usual, it's those on men's doctrines of Hyper-Grace that keep starting it.
No one teaches hypergrace here Thats just a conspiracy theory,
So it cant be them..
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Mad's distinction from classical dispensational teaching is their undue emphasis on Paul and how the Church started at Paul's conversion rather than Pentecost. Still, it doesn't deserve the label 'cursed'.
Sure it does. Paul didn't teach one gospel to the Jews and another to the Greeks. He taught one gospel to both and pronounced a curse on anyone who taught another gospel than he taught. I seriously doubt that the apostles fell into that category.
 

DP

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The real context of Paul's statement about those who received NOT the love of the truth:

2 Thess 2:9-12
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
KJV

Paul was warning us there about the coming Antichrist, to Jerusalem to sit in the temple proclaiming himself as God, and how many will fall away to believe that. That's the main subject there about that "strong delusion" and not having received the love of the Truth.

It's the heeding of men's doctrines that will lead many believers at the end to fall away to that coming false one, for Paul showed there that event is to happen before our Lord Jesus comes to gather us.

Those who misuse that, taking it out of the context of that 2 Thess.2 Chapter do show how deceived they themselves are about the Truth in God's Word, and have instead heeded men's teachings.