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The flesh, the body, and the unrenewed mind is the old man - where the sin nature resides.
Salvation, which gives us eternal life, is secure through faith in Christ. It is secure being that it is "born" within us through a new Spirit being that God creates in us through our faith in Christ. We are sealed until the day of redemption - when we are called home.
Obedience is fruit; the result of being saved . . .
We are told in 1 Cor. 2:16 that "we have the mind of Christ". The thing is that we are still in the flesh and still contend with our "carnal mind".
What was in the mind of Christ? "To do the will of the Father" - John 5:30. To the church, the body of Christ, John 5:30 is said in this manner: walk in the Spirit - "walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit" (Romans 8); "walk by the Spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh" (Gal. 5).
How are we to do this? Does it come naturally after being born again of the Spirit? We are to be transformed by "the renewing of our minds". (Rom 12:2)
How do we do this? By "putting off the our old self" (the flesh, carnal) and "put on the new self created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness". (Eph. 4; Col. 3) See, the new creation that God created in us when we were born again IS in the likeness of God and IS righteous and holy . . . we bring it to the "outside" by renewing our minds and the result will be fruit.
Even if one remains a "carnal Christian"; if they truly confessed Jesus as Lord and believe that God raised him from the dead - they are saved. That new creation is created within EVERY believer - fruit will be displayed according to how good one is at renewing their mind - some will be better at this than others - that's why there are strong believers and there are weak believers. This process of renewing our minds can take a lifetime as we put off the things that are displayed in our old nature . . . but however long it takes - we are still saved.
Salvation, which gives us eternal life, is secure through faith in Christ. It is secure being that it is "born" within us through a new Spirit being that God creates in us through our faith in Christ. We are sealed until the day of redemption - when we are called home.
Obedience is fruit; the result of being saved . . .
We are told in 1 Cor. 2:16 that "we have the mind of Christ". The thing is that we are still in the flesh and still contend with our "carnal mind".
What was in the mind of Christ? "To do the will of the Father" - John 5:30. To the church, the body of Christ, John 5:30 is said in this manner: walk in the Spirit - "walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit" (Romans 8); "walk by the Spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh" (Gal. 5).
How are we to do this? Does it come naturally after being born again of the Spirit? We are to be transformed by "the renewing of our minds". (Rom 12:2)
How do we do this? By "putting off the our old self" (the flesh, carnal) and "put on the new self created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness". (Eph. 4; Col. 3) See, the new creation that God created in us when we were born again IS in the likeness of God and IS righteous and holy . . . we bring it to the "outside" by renewing our minds and the result will be fruit.
Even if one remains a "carnal Christian"; if they truly confessed Jesus as Lord and believe that God raised him from the dead - they are saved. That new creation is created within EVERY believer - fruit will be displayed according to how good one is at renewing their mind - some will be better at this than others - that's why there are strong believers and there are weak believers. This process of renewing our minds can take a lifetime as we put off the things that are displayed in our old nature . . . but however long it takes - we are still saved.
I agree...the old man is dead..he's a goner!
The flesh with the power of sin still in it is with us. The spirit of man is cut away ( called the circumcision of Christ, of the flesh and heart ..2 sides of the same coin) from the body ( with the power of sin in it ) Romans 7:14-20
The old man was crucified with Christ - Gal 2:20 It is knowing that the old man is dead that we can begin to understand that sin has no dominion over us.
Romans 6:5-6 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self ( man ) was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
In the same manner Christ died on the cross , so did our old man die...To reckon means "to take it as being a done deal "..it's an accounting term that means it's done and accounted for as being true.
The flesh with the power of sin still in it is with us. The spirit of man is cut away ( called the circumcision of Christ, of the flesh and heart ..2 sides of the same coin) from the body ( with the power of sin in it ) Romans 7:14-20
The old man was crucified with Christ - Gal 2:20 It is knowing that the old man is dead that we can begin to understand that sin has no dominion over us.
Romans 6:5-6 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self ( man ) was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
In the same manner Christ died on the cross , so did our old man die...To reckon means "to take it as being a done deal "..it's an accounting term that means it's done and accounted for as being true.
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C
We think it's normal that so many have no freedom from sin. He says it's so different this freedom that he wondered if before that experience he was really saved. He says all the people who hear the full gospel what repentance is, they experience this freedom immediately when they get saved and baptized and set free.
A family member who wrote a book in 1800 or so was Jewish, he found the Messiah and he repented and instantly there was this total change. In me there was a change immediately when I got saved, but not like he describes.
A family member who wrote a book in 1800 or so was Jewish, he found the Messiah and he repented and instantly there was this total change. In me there was a change immediately when I got saved, but not like he describes.
Amen!...I agree.....
I would only point out ( for terminology sakes ) that it's putting off the manner of living that the old self used to do..the habits and desires and ways of the flesh that were in the old man....these are still in our flesh which as the power of sin still in it and will be there until we die...and as you say..now we "walk according to the Spirit so that we will not fulfill "its" lusts ( the flesh ).
The old man is dead - crucified with Christ and now we have a new spirit..a inner man of the heart..the new creation in Christ.
Our true nature is the new creation in Christ. We are not "in the flesh" anymore because the old man is dead but we are "in the spirit".
Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However,you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Ephesians 4:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit,
I would only point out ( for terminology sakes ) that it's putting off the manner of living that the old self used to do..the habits and desires and ways of the flesh that were in the old man....these are still in our flesh which as the power of sin still in it and will be there until we die...and as you say..now we "walk according to the Spirit so that we will not fulfill "its" lusts ( the flesh ).
The old man is dead - crucified with Christ and now we have a new spirit..a inner man of the heart..the new creation in Christ.
Our true nature is the new creation in Christ. We are not "in the flesh" anymore because the old man is dead but we are "in the spirit".
Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However,you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Ephesians 4:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit,
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The gospel plain and simple is Jesus crucified and resurrected - no more, no less . . . that is all we need to believe to be saved.
Do we still live in our fleshly bodies?
After the new birth and the creation of the new man does God possess us and change our minds? If so - Why would he tell us to put off the old and put on the new - if the old was no longer there? Why would we have to renew our minds?
I agree that some do experience complete freedom from some sins - but I think that we all have weaknesses that take a longer time to shake off. I believe that is why we are told to put off the old man because it is not automatically renewed to correspond and walk with the "new creation", the "new man". So regardless of what this man says - GOD says we are to renew our minds - we are to put off the old (apparently it's still around) and we are to put on the new to enable us to walk in the Spirit.
Everyone experiences the new birth differently - yes, some things drop off immediately - some things take more work to shake off . . . . Why would Paul ask - Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now perfected in the flesh?
Do we still live in our fleshly bodies?
After the new birth and the creation of the new man does God possess us and change our minds? If so - Why would he tell us to put off the old and put on the new - if the old was no longer there? Why would we have to renew our minds?
I agree that some do experience complete freedom from some sins - but I think that we all have weaknesses that take a longer time to shake off. I believe that is why we are told to put off the old man because it is not automatically renewed to correspond and walk with the "new creation", the "new man". So regardless of what this man says - GOD says we are to renew our minds - we are to put off the old (apparently it's still around) and we are to put on the new to enable us to walk in the Spirit.
Everyone experiences the new birth differently - yes, some things drop off immediately - some things take more work to shake off . . . . Why would Paul ask - Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now perfected in the flesh?
The old man is definitely dead and buried with Christ and the new man has risen to new life just like Christ did.
Romans 6:8-11 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Even so consider yourselves ( In the same manner that Christ died and rose again ) to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
2 Timothy 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
Romans 6:8-11 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Even so consider yourselves ( In the same manner that Christ died and rose again ) to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
2 Timothy 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
I agree that putting off the old man (self) is putting off the former way of living and are corrupt . . ."put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires . . it is also putting away anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk . .no lying to one another" We replace those actions with actions that come from our "new man" which scripture refers to as renewing our minds. My question would be - If the old man is dead - why do we have to put it off? And if the old man is dead . . why can't we walk in the Spirit 24/7 - no problemo!
We can still "walk in the flesh" even though the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ dwell in us . . It is a choice and the choice should result from our renewing our minds to the word of God to make the correct choices. Sometimes things happen so fast that we make the wrong choice - we may get angry, we may use corrupt communication, we may lie, etc. so that shows me that the old man is still there!! God saved us through faith in Christ by his grace . . . but in order to live, i.e. walk in the Spirit - He gave specific instruction . . . 1 - RENEW our minds!
We can still "walk in the flesh" even though the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ dwell in us . . It is a choice and the choice should result from our renewing our minds to the word of God to make the correct choices. Sometimes things happen so fast that we make the wrong choice - we may get angry, we may use corrupt communication, we may lie, etc. so that shows me that the old man is still there!! God saved us through faith in Christ by his grace . . . but in order to live, i.e. walk in the Spirit - He gave specific instruction . . . 1 - RENEW our minds!
Amen...well said..
it's in the "knowing" that our old man is dead with Christ and we were raised to new life in our new spirit - inner man created in righteousness and holiness. - it's in knowing this that sin loses it's "deceitfulness" and power over us, habits, addictions and thoughts that are contrary to who we really are now in Christ!..in other words..the old manner of living that was attached to our old man before he died ...this "manner of living" is still left over in our flesh....it's all in the "knowing"......My people perish for lack of knowledge.
it's in the "knowing" that our old man is dead with Christ and we were raised to new life in our new spirit - inner man created in righteousness and holiness. - it's in knowing this that sin loses it's "deceitfulness" and power over us, habits, addictions and thoughts that are contrary to who we really are now in Christ!..in other words..the old manner of living that was attached to our old man before he died ...this "manner of living" is still left over in our flesh....it's all in the "knowing"......My people perish for lack of knowledge.
Amen..re-new our minds!
But again it's the old manner of living that is left over in the flesh...not the old man himself as he is a goner..in the same way Jesus died..we died too..in the very same manner
The scriptures also say that we can walk "according" to the flesh which is vastly different then being "in the flesh".
So, AMEN!..let's walk by the Spirit ( as Galatians 5:25 says ) or walk according to the Spirit ( as romans 8:12-13 ) and not according to the flesh.
But again it's the old manner of living that is left over in the flesh...not the old man himself as he is a goner..in the same way Jesus died..we died too..in the very same manner
The scriptures also say that we can walk "according" to the flesh which is vastly different then being "in the flesh".
So, AMEN!..let's walk by the Spirit ( as Galatians 5:25 says ) or walk according to the Spirit ( as romans 8:12-13 ) and not according to the flesh.
I agree that putting off the old man (self) is putting off the former way of living and are corrupt . . ."put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires . . it is also putting away anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk . .no lying to one another" We replace those actions with actions that come from our "new man" which scripture refers to as renewing our minds. My question would be - If the old man is dead - why do we have to put it off? And if the old man is dead . . why can't we walk in the Spirit 24/7 - no problemo!
We can still "walk in the flesh" even though the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ dwell in us . . It is a choice and the choice should result from our renewing our minds to the word of God to make the correct choices. Sometimes things happen so fast that we make the wrong choice - we may get angry, we may use corrupt communication, we may lie, etc. so that shows me that the old man is still there!! God saved us through faith in Christ by his grace . . . but in order to live, i.e. walk in the Spirit - He gave specific instruction . . . 1 - RENEW our minds!
We can still "walk in the flesh" even though the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ dwell in us . . It is a choice and the choice should result from our renewing our minds to the word of God to make the correct choices. Sometimes things happen so fast that we make the wrong choice - we may get angry, we may use corrupt communication, we may lie, etc. so that shows me that the old man is still there!! God saved us through faith in Christ by his grace . . . but in order to live, i.e. walk in the Spirit - He gave specific instruction . . . 1 - RENEW our minds!
We are not putting off the old man ( seeing as he is dead )..we are putting off the manner of living that was in the old man or the deeds of the body which has the flesh with the power of sin in it.
Look at Gal 2:20
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I ( old man ) am crucified ( perfect passive = a done deal..settled forever ) with Christ: nevertheless I ( new man in Christ ) live; yet not I ( Christ is one with us in our inner man ), but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I ( new man in Christ ) now live in the flesh ( body ) I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Look at Gal 2:20
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I ( old man ) am crucified ( perfect passive = a done deal..settled forever ) with Christ: nevertheless I ( new man in Christ ) live; yet not I ( Christ is one with us in our inner man ), but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I ( new man in Christ ) now live in the flesh ( body ) I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
My question would be - If the old man is dead - why do we have to put it off? And if the old man is dead . . why can't we walk in the Spirit 24/7 - no problemo!
God saved us through faith in Christ by his grace . . . but in order to live, i.e. walk in the Spirit - He gave specific instruction . . . 1 - RENEW our minds!
God saved us through faith in Christ by his grace . . . but in order to live, i.e. walk in the Spirit - He gave specific instruction . . . 1 - RENEW our minds!
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If you walk according to the flesh - you are in the flesh. How can you separate that?
I have a problem with saying the old man is dead but the mannerisms remain . . . how can the mannerisms of the old man remain if the old man is DEAD?
How do we separate the mannerisms of the old man with the old man himself? Do we separate the mannerisms of the new man from the Spirit, i.e. the new creation within us? No, it is the Spirit within us that enables us to manifest the mannerisms of the new man.
But I say, walk by the Spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh (old man). For the desires of the flesh (old man) are against the Spirit and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other to keep you from doing the things you want to do. Gal. 5:16,17 Why do we still deal with this battle if the old man (flesh) is DEAD? Or am I the only one that still has my flesh lusting against my Spirit and my Spirit lusting against my flesh?
I have a problem with saying the old man is dead but the mannerisms remain . . . how can the mannerisms of the old man remain if the old man is DEAD?
How do we separate the mannerisms of the old man with the old man himself? Do we separate the mannerisms of the new man from the Spirit, i.e. the new creation within us? No, it is the Spirit within us that enables us to manifest the mannerisms of the new man.
But I say, walk by the Spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh (old man). For the desires of the flesh (old man) are against the Spirit and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other to keep you from doing the things you want to do. Gal. 5:16,17 Why do we still deal with this battle if the old man (flesh) is DEAD? Or am I the only one that still has my flesh lusting against my Spirit and my Spirit lusting against my flesh?