When to forgive

[Depleted]

It has come to my attention that some folks think we're supposed to forgive even as the offender continues the offense. So, if you come home and someone is robbing your house, help them take the stuff out and show them where the good stuff is. If they plan to shoot you, give them more bullets, in case they run out before they're done. If they insult you, give them more words to use. (I think I've done that one. lol) If they rape you...

Well, you get the idea.

What do you think?

Oh, and if you think we should forgive during, does that then give you the right standing to ask the offender to forgive all the other victims/targets too?

 

[psychomom]

i've never been burgled (but i have been robbed), nor shot, but as to offense.... well, kinda.

some were unintended offenses i picked up because of my own pride.
i s'pose some were quite intended....

yet, how many times have i done both?
i'm honestly unsure how to avoid being 'victimized'... it doesn't worry me for myself.
it's not for me to say what others do, though my initial reaction is to defend those who are victims.

all i can think of right now is that while i was God's enemy, Christ died for me.
right there in the midst of my cosmic treason against the Most High, He redeemed me.

ugh...that's so poorly worded!
but i'd like to apply God's standard of forgiveness toward others.
i'm relying on the Lord to make that possible.

 

[phil112]

There's a difference between being an accomplice and forgiving. Don't be absurd.
Christ said if we don't forgive our brother God won't forgive us. Figure it out.

 

[4enlightment]

I know that this might sound funny, but if anyone truly believes that God will away take good care of them like He does for the lilies in the fields, will not worry about anything. But if we lack faith or trust in Him and or His word, then we will try our best to hold onto what we has for tomorrow. As it says that the Righteous will live by faith, not knowing what is going to happen tomorrow, because like Abraham that they believes that God is with them and will restores what they has lost.


Genesis 12:10 Now there was a famine in the land, and Abram went down to Egypt to live there for a while because the famine was severe.

Genesis 13:1 So Abram went up from Egypt to the Negev, with his wife and everything he had, and Lot went with him. 2 Abram had become very wealthy in livestock and in silver and gold.

Genesis 45:11 I will provide for you there, because five years of famine are still to come. Otherwise you and your household and all who belong to you will become destitute.’

Exodus 3:21 “And I will make the Egyptians favorably disposed toward this people, so that when you leave you will not go empty-handed.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

Matthew 6:25-34 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life? ..

Galatians 3:11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”

 

[AbigailZeke]

It has come to my attention that some folks think we're supposed to forgive even as the offender continues the offense. So, if you come home and someone is robbing your house, help them take the stuff out and show them where the good stuff is. If they plan to shoot you, give them more bullets, in case they run out before they're done. If they insult you, give them more words to use. (I think I've done that one. lol) If they rape you...

Well, you get the idea.

What do you think?

Oh, and if you think we should forgive during, does that then give you the right standing to ask the offender to forgive all the other victims/targets too?

Hmmm... Jesus did say "..To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either." Luke 6:29

And when "Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven." Matthew 18:22

And to "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you... He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." Matthew 5:44-45

So I guess the answer is always.

How to forgive, however, especially when the offense is morally wrong, is an entirely different (and much more difficult) subject.

 

[Depleted]

i've never been burgled (but i have been robbed), nor shot, but as to offense.... well, kinda.

some were unintended offenses i picked up because of my own pride.
i s'pose some were quite intended....

yet, how many times have i done both?
i'm honestly unsure how to avoid being 'victimized'... it doesn't worry me for myself.
it's not for me to say what others do, though my initial reaction is to defend those who are victims.

all i can think of right now is that while i was God's enemy, Christ died for me.
right there in the midst of my cosmic treason against the Most High, He redeemed me.

ugh...that's so poorly worded!
but i'd like to apply God's standard of forgiveness toward others.
i'm relying on the Lord to make that possible.

Since you have a good track record for not being victimized, what you need you already have. Keep doing what you're doing. (There really is a victim mentality that exudes from a person enough that offenders catch the scent to exploit it. You don't have it.)

So, you really would forgive right in the middle of the act against you? Whoa! I believe you and am amazed.

If the offender did it to a group you're in, would you ask her to forgive anyone who didn't forgive her during the offense? (Someone like me, who will mouth off and give her my what-for.

lol)

 

[coby]

It has come to my attention that some folks think we're supposed to forgive even as the offender continues the offense. So, if you come home and someone is robbing your house, help them take the stuff out and show them where the good stuff is. If they plan to shoot you, give them more bullets, in case they run out before they're done. If they insult you, give them more words to use. (I think I've done that one. lol) If they rape you...

Well, you get the idea.

What do you think?

Oh, and if you think we should forgive during, does that then give you the right standing to ask the offender to forgive all the other victims/targets too?

We should always forgive but enabling is something else.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=deHfHOFXeE4

 

[AbigailZeke]

We should always forgive but enabling is something else.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=deHfHOFXeE4

Yes, that. Point.

 

[psychomom]

Since you have a good track record for not being victimized, what you need you already have. Keep doing what you're doing. (There really is a victim mentality that exudes from a person enough that offenders catch the scent to exploit it. You don't have it.)

So, you really would forgive right in the middle of the act against you? Whoa! I believe you and am amazed.

If the offender did it to a group you're in, would you ask her to forgive anyone who didn't forgive her during the offense? (Someone like me, who will mouth off and give her my what-for.

lol)

man, it would be great if i could say i've always forgiven right in the middle of the act... it's a goal

(i don't normally like to talk about this but) i had an experience as a teenager that i believe is now known as date rape.
that one was tough. i had to ask the Lord to help me forgive so many times. it took many years and i hope (?) it's completely behind me now. (you never know when sin will rear its ugly head, so i like to leave some room there)

i'm unsure of the last question.... would i ask the offender to forgive those she's offending?
or would i ask those against whom the offense is being committed to forgive?
this is where, in all honestly, i don't know! haha

one of my sisters has pretty radically offended another sister. but the, er, 'offendee' is also a sister in Christ so i kept my big mouth shut as i watched the Lord work in her heart. i simply prayed for them both.
(they're my sisters, and i love them )

 

[Depleted]

Hmmm... Jesus did say "..To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either." Luke 6:29

And when "Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven." Matthew 18:22

And to "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you... He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." Matthew 5:44-45

So I guess the answer is always.

How to forgive, however, especially when the offense is morally wrong, is an entirely different (and much more difficult) subject.

Notice tense. The slap already happened. The cloak was already taken. The sin is finished. I'm asking during, because during can take a long time sometimes. (And even if it isn't a long time, the way our minds work we have plenty of time to think it over as the dude is walking down the street with our favorite coat! lol)

An example. I was a maintenance manager at one time, albeit just hired, so I knew nothing about that particular job or the maintenance men. Second day on the job, someone stole all the tools in their room. All of them! No one knew who, particularly me, so do I forgive whoever right then?

The tools were replaced by the boss in the next couple of day, but they were stolen again a week later. Do I forgive whoever now knowing it's ongoing?

The boss sure didn't. He fired all the maintenance people, and then replaced the tools again. Do I forgive yet again?

Sure enough, the cops were brought in that time. Ends up it wasn't a maintenance guy. Some skinny thief was able to get through a vent that I couldn't fit into in my thinnest days!

Me forgiving anyone would have been silly, since I didn't know anyone. I did think the boss was wrong to fire everyone. (I quit over that one and what else he dumped me with, but had to give two week's notice. The only reason I know how this story ended.) But should I have forgiven the thief? And should I go up to him and ask him to forgive the maintenance guys for saying what they said throughout all this? (Maintenance guys. It wasn't flowery. lol)

 

[FreeNChrist]

I am reminded of what was happening to Jesus when He said, "Father forgive them". It seems the bar has been set very high indeed.

 

[psychomom]

i gots a question

what exactly, in Biblical terms is forgiveness?


(Lynn, if you'd like me to begin a new thread on it, you have only to say so )

 

[coby]

Notice tense. The slap already happened. The cloak was already taken. The sin is finished. I'm asking during, because during can take a long time sometimes. (And even if it isn't a long time, the way our minds work we have plenty of time to think it over as the dude is walking down the street with our favorite coat! lol)

An example. I was a maintenance manager at one time, albeit just hired, so I knew nothing about that particular job or the maintenance men. Second day on the job, someone stole all the tools in their room. All of them! No one knew who, particularly me, so do I forgive whoever right then?

The tools were replaced by the boss in the next couple of day, but they were stolen again a week later. Do I forgive whoever now knowing it's ongoing?

The boss sure didn't. He fired all the maintenance people, and then replaced the tools again. Do I forgive yet again?

Sure enough, the cops were brought in that time. Ends up it wasn't a maintenance guy. Some skinny thief was able to get through a vent that I couldn't fit into in my thinnest days!

Me forgiving anyone would have been silly, since I didn't know anyone. I did think the boss was wrong to fire everyone. (I quit over that one and what else he dumped me with, but had to give two week's notice. The only reason I know how this story ended.) But should I have forgiven the thief? And should I go up to him and ask him to forgive the maintenance guys for saying what they said throughout all this? (Maintenance guys. It wasn't flowery. lol)

If you hold something against the thief you can just say: I forgive the thief, no matter who it is. My mom's walkman was stolen with her christian music by a thief who broke into our house. Lol there was nothing of worth, so he took her walkman. She had no idea who it was but prayed for him. We all prayed he would get saved if he heard the music. Ask a thief to forgive??? God asks christians to forgive. I hope a thief is not a christian, so why on earth would I ask him?

 

[coby]

I once needed money so I looked in my ex's coat pocket (when we were married). I found a small letter there:
Hi thief! Jesus loves you too! (in Dutch it rhimes)

 

[Depleted]

man, it would be great if i could say i've always forgiven right in the middle of the act... it's a goal

(i don't normally like to talk about this but) i had an experience as a teenager that i believe is now known as date rape.
that one was tough. i had to ask the Lord to help me forgive so many times. it took many years and i hope (?) it's completely behind me now. (you never know when sin will rear its ugly head, so i like to leave some room there)

i'm unsure of the last question.... would i ask the offender to forgive those she's offending?
or would i ask those against whom the offense is being committed to forgive?
this is where, in all honestly, i don't know! haha

one of my sisters has pretty radically offended another sister. but the, er, 'offendee' is also a sister in Christ so i kept my big mouth shut as i watched the Lord work in her heart. i simply prayed for them both.
(they're my sisters, and i love them )

Please understand I was gang raped when I was young, so I'm not saying the following to be cruel. I'm saying it because we know how intimate rape is. And it's an example based on no one's story, just to clarify the question you didn't understand.

"Sex trafficking" is a global epidemic. Girls (and boys) are kidnapped and hoarded out of the country to sell them as sex slaves. They're also repeated raped to comply. And they're raped in front of the others too.

Let's name one of these girls Sally. Sally is already a believer in her young age. (This is the question you did get, but it goes with the question you didn't get, so I'll start here.) Should Sally forgive the rapists while being raped? Let us assume there is a girl in that group more like me, and would protest and mouth off. Because she's like me, let's even give her my name -- Lynn. (This is the question you didn't get.) Should Sally ask the rapists to forgive Lynn too?

Honestly, being Lynn, it ticks me off when someone asks an offender to forgive me for going verbal, so I'm really asking. I really do weigh the cost of going verbal. Even in that scenario knowing what is likely to happen next, I'd go verbal. And I KNOW it because I was more than just verbal to those creeps who raped me. (Yes, since forgiven. I've been praying God saves them too, but that doesn't mean they weren't creeps then anyway.)

 

[thepsalmist]

It has come to my attention that some folks think we're supposed to forgive even as the offender continues the offense. So, if you come home and someone is robbing your house, help them take the stuff out and show them where the good stuff is. If they plan to shoot you, give them more bullets, in case they run out before they're done. If they insult you, give them more words to use. (I think I've done that one. lol) If they rape you...

Well, you get the idea.

What do you think?

Oh, and if you think we should forgive during, does that then give you the right standing to ask the offender to forgive all the other victims/targets too?

LOL - ok well- this is an extreme example - I guess an extreme reply might be appropriate?

Just think how CONFUSED a thief would be if you started handing over your stuff to him

He would be dumbfounded - he would question why --- it might even create a good opportunity to witness

At the very least God would surely be proud that you chose to give the thief your cloak as well - rather than fight over your stuff that perishes.

 

[Depleted]

i gots a question

what exactly, in Biblical terms is forgiveness?


(Lynn, if you'd like me to begin a new thread on it, you have only to say so )

I have to go right after this, but just wanted you to know that's a good question, part of the overall discussion, and it drives me nuts that I can't get an exact line-by-line detailed instruction manual of what it is to figure all this out. So, yes, part of the discussion so doesn't need it's own topic. (Although I can't answer knowing I've asked that question on her more than once before. Sllooooooooowwww learner. lol)

 

[Depleted]

There's a difference between being an accomplice and forgiving. Don't be absurd.
Christ said if we don't forgive our brother God won't forgive us. Figure it out.

Can't. Who's my brother? (And feel free to go to the Good Samaritan, because that has always left me wondering -- who was the brother still? The Samaritan didn't need a brother, and the guy mugged wasn't family to the Samaritan. Was the story about the mugged guy or the nonbeliever?)

See what happens when coming up with pat answers? I know the pat answers. I don't get them either. lol

 

[coby]

Please understand I was gang raped when I was young, so I'm not saying the following to be cruel. I'm saying it because we know how intimate rape is. And it's an example based on no one's story, just to clarify the question you didn't understand.

"Sex trafficking" is a global epidemic. Girls (and boys) are kidnapped and hoarded out of the country to sell them as sex slaves. They're also repeated raped to comply. And they're raped in front of the others too.

Let's name one of these girls Sally. Sally is already a believer in her young age. (This is the question you did get, but it goes with the question you didn't get, so I'll start here.) Should Sally forgive the rapists while being raped? Let us assume there is a girl in that group more like me, and would protest and mouth off. Because she's like me, let's even give her my name -- Lynn. (This is the question you didn't get.) Should Sally ask the rapists to forgive Lynn too?

Honestly, being Lynn, it ticks me off when someone asks an offender to forgive me for going verbal, so I'm really asking. I really do weigh the cost of going verbal. Even in that scenario knowing what is likely to happen next, I'd go verbal. And I KNOW it because I was more than just verbal to those creeps who raped me. (Yes, since forgiven. I've been praying God saves them too, but that doesn't mean they weren't creeps then anyway.)

That's horrible. I can understand someone doesn't forgive then immediately, but there are even people who have ISIS people killing them and forgive. One got saved because of that.
Once met a rapist when I was biking in the middle of the night in the woods. I said: God is here! He got so scared, he didn't dare touch me anymore. Tried to convert him and said God could heal him from this.

 

[psychomom]

Please understand I was gang raped when I was young, so I'm not saying the following to be cruel. I'm saying it because we know how intimate rape is. And it's an example based on no one's story, just to clarify the question you didn't understand.

"Sex trafficking" is a global epidemic. Girls (and boys) are kidnapped and hoarded out of the country to sell them as sex slaves. They're also repeated raped to comply. And they're raped in front of the others too.

Let's name one of these girls Sally. Sally is already a believer in her young age. (This is the question you did get, but it goes with the question you didn't get, so I'll start here.) Should Sally forgive the rapists while being raped? Let us assume there is a girl in that group more like me, and would protest and mouth off. Because she's like me, let's even give her my name -- Lynn. (This is the question you didn't get.) Should Sally ask the rapists to forgive Lynn too?

Honestly, being Lynn, it ticks me off when someone asks an offender to forgive me for going verbal, so I'm really asking. I really do weigh the cost of going verbal. Even in that scenario knowing what is likely to happen next, I'd go verbal. And I KNOW it because I was more than just verbal to those creeps who raped me. (Yes, since forgiven. I've been praying God saves them too, but that doesn't mean they weren't creeps then anyway.)

a-a-nd now i'm crying. (and laughing)

in that context, if i were Sally asking the offenders to forgive Lynn would be my way of trying to protect her against further hurt. more colloquial than Christian-ese, if you know what i mean?

should Sally forgive mid-offense? truly, i don't know if she would be able to... you're so busy wondering if this is as bad as it's gonna get and you know how you sorta go numb? (i did) some kind of self protective mechanism? for me, it took time even to process what had happened. then all the self-blame (how was i stupid enough to 'let' that happen blah blah), i had to get past that. and as you know, we didn't have the victims advocates we do now.

i'm bad with hypotheticals... (obviously! hehe)
and i'm not brave like you. i tend to duck and cover.