Once Saved Always saved....Read this

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I would be more concerned that you would say this in spite of what Titus 3:5 says:

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" Titus 3:5

Great. You become saved by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. You then defile your vessel. Now what? You think you're still clean? Saved, yes; clean, no. GOD has provided a way for us to walk blameless before him by our sanctifying ourselves which means standing apart from wickedness, and letting ourselves be cleansed when we fail. Those who do this, know GOD; and those who don't, don't.

 

[Grace777x70]

This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"

We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....

however there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.

God sets apart ( sanctifies )our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. ( this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )

Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..= done deal forever

An example of the perfect tense = Jesus saying "It is finished"....done deal forever

Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive = done deal forever)



Sanctification to our "religious minds" could mean a lot of different things to different people as it depends on the religious beliefs formulated from our backgrounds....like not doing the "biggie sins"....no smoking..no drinking..no going to church..no reading your bible every day..no praying for an hour each day.....no going to a movie...reading a newspaper...no being a servant of God...the self-righteous/holiness D.I.Y. mindset says to people not doing "what I don't do.."....

Let's believe and receive the gospel of the grace of Christ in our lives.

 

[mailmandan]

I don't confuse or conflate them at all. Our sanctification requires our cooperation and the participation of our will. Just because GOD wills that every man be saved doesn't mean it's going to happen. He will not preempt man's will. And without sanctification, no one will see the lord.

Without justification, there is no sanctification. Our ongoing sanctification has no bearing on our justification. That is, even if we don't reach entire sanctification/sinless perfection in this lifetime (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ. How many people who are justified will end up being glorified? Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. ​ALL of them.

 

[Grace777x70]

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is already in us in Christ in our spirit..the inner man of the heart.

There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior so that people can "see the Lord" in us. ( this is what Hebrews 12:14 was talking about..people "see the Lord" by our lives we live by His life in us..by living in peace with men and by walking out our holiness in Christ. )

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

 

[chancer]

Without justification, there is no sanctification. Our ongoing sanctification has no bearing on our justification. That is, even if we don't reach entire sanctification/sinless perfection in this lifetime (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ. How many people who are justified will end up being glorified? Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. ​ALL of them.

Amen, but the sad thing is that people who hold to the other view generally won't be talked out of it through rational means. It takes revelation through the Holy Spirit.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Without justification, there is no sanctification. Our ongoing sanctification has no bearing on our justification. That is, even if we don't reach entire sanctification/sinless perfection in this lifetime (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ. How many people who are justified will end up being glorified? Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. ​ALL of them.

You're simply calling Jesus a liar. He said that only those who do the will of GOD will be saved, yet you say one's behavior can't jeopardize one's justification. I suppose this is accomplished in your mind by reducing faith to mere mental belief. But scripture witnesses that that kind of faith will not save a person. The faith that enables a person to do GOD's will is what saves a person.

 

[Grace777x70]

Jesus did the "will of God"...and delivered us from this present evil world

Galatians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:


It is God in us that gives us the will and the ability to do His will.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus.

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23[/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being lead by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. We walk them out as we life our lives dependent on Him.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[FreeNChrist]

He's a strong believer in man's total inability, even after regeneration, which necessitates the belief that GOD has to do everything.

You're a strong believer in man, and in man's total ability...which is a rejection of Christ and His total sufficiency.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I don't confuse or conflate them at all. Our sanctification requires our cooperation and the participation of our will. Just because GOD wills that every man be saved doesn't mean it's going to happen. He will not preempt man's will. And without sanctification, no one will see the lord.

Every one who is justified will be sanctified....and glorified. It is the promise of Jesus to complete the work He has begun in those who are His. HE is more than sufficient for the job, and He doesn't lie.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Great. You become saved by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. You then defile your vessel. Now what? You think you're still clean? Saved, yes; clean, no. GOD has provided a way for us to walk blameless before him by our sanctifying ourselves which means standing apart from wickedness, and letting ourselves be cleansed when we fail. Those who do this, know GOD; and those who don't, don't.

That is a totally man-centered belief system that can neither save you nor sanctify you.

 

[Grace777x70]

I have found at least 7 things about doing the will of God on this earth now that we are in Christ.

1) That we have eternal life in Christ - John 6:40

2) That we be filled with the Holy Spirit - Eph 5:16-21

3) That we live a pure, disciplined lifestyle - 1 Thess 4:3-4 ( we live out that holiness that is already in us in our new man ..created in Christ in righteousness and holiness )

4) That we are rejoicing in the Lord, praying without ceasing, and grateful - 1 Thess 5:16-18

5) That we be a law-abiding citizen - 1 Peter 2:13-16

6) That we believe and influence others to believe - 2 Peter 3:9

7) That we commit ourselves to God and other believers - 2 Cor 8:5

According to the works-based salvationists...if someone is not joyful one day or didn't pray for a couple of days...or was not grateful for a day or so and they died..then they would go to hell because they didn't do " the will of God"..( see #4 above )....how foolish this nonsense is.

What about #5 above...if you speed and crash your car and die..you go to hell because you were not doing " the will of God"...again the complete foolishness of people that say..not doing the will of God are not saved.

The "doing of the will of God" for salvation is to believe on Christ and it is by grace through faith only - no works. Eph 2:8-9

The saint who rests in Christ and in His finished work is the will of God and what appears to be his free choices are actually God's will for him. It's loving God because you know His love for you, doing what is inside of you under His influence. Phil 2:13

 

[FreeNChrist]

You're simply calling Jesus a liar. He said that only those who do the will of GOD will be saved, yet you say one's behavior can't jeopardize one's justification. I suppose this is accomplished in your mind by reducing faith to mere mental belief. But scripture witnesses that that kind of faith will not save a person. The faith that enables a person to do GOD's will is what saves a person.

You invert the truth resulting in a lie. It is the object of the Christian's faith, Jesus Christ, who saves us and who enables us to do the will of God.

We are not saved by doing the will of God, we do the will of God because we are saved.

 

[mailmandan]

You're simply calling Jesus a liar. He said that only those who do the will of GOD will be saved, yet you say one's behavior can't jeopardize one's justification. I suppose this is accomplished in your mind by reducing faith to mere mental belief. But scripture witnesses that that kind of faith will not save a person. The faith that enables a person to do GOD's will is what saves a person.

I already showed what God's will for us to become saved is in John 6:40 and you are confusing this with God's will for us AFTER we have been saved. You mix it all together to create a works salvation cocktail. Salvation by works is not the will of God. You are teaching performance based salvation.

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen!..all works-based performance so-called "gospels" are not the true gospel of the grace of Christ.....they have the "appearance of godliness but deny the power"...it is themselves that save themselves and not relying on Christ. This is "denying their Lord and Master"......

2 Timothy 3:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.


Paul said they "appear as ministers of righteousness"...not that they come and say "sin all you want"... it's really their own self-righteousness that they are promoting...

2 Corinthians 11:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


Galatians 1:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

I already showed what God's will for us to become saved is in John 6:40 and you are confusing this with God's will for us AFTER we have been saved. You mix it all together to create a works salvation cocktail. Salvation by works is not the will of God. You are teaching performance based salvation.

 

[PeterJens]

It is obvious we do not agree.

You believe people will walk in righteousness because they have been forgiven.

We believe people will walk in righteousness because righteousness is the expression of love Jesus has given us and set free in our hearts. The proof that we have found this freedom is we conquer sin rather than continue to be slaves to it.

The only reason you do not accept this, is because you are limiting the power of the cross and in your hearts still hold on to sin and block out love. The fact you call use liars, unsaved, works salvation just emphasises your lack of victory. You do not believe it is possible to walk blamelessly before the Lord, in fellowship with Him? Jesus died to make this possible.

Some have said words like do we love God 100% 24hrs a day. This is like saying love is electricity that goes up and down.
Love flows, it does not go away, but it can be shut out, repressed, ignored, blocked. We are called to just walk.
God does not come with a measuring stick, but sees your heart and desire for Him and others. Rejoice in His acceptance of you and know you are loved. We are walking in what you claim to have, so obviously we must have something different else you would not consistently try and condemn us.

 

[PeterJens]

Amen!..all works-based performance so-called "gospels" are not the true gospel of the grace of Christ.....they have the "appearance of godliness but deny the power"...it is themselves that save themselves and not relying on Christ. This is "denying their Lord and Master"......

The problem is this is simple a denial of actions in life, which we do, to actually stay alive. Behind every religion, every idea about life, is the fact we eat, sleep, work, find shelter, belong to social groups, which involves constant interaction.

So it is a given people have to do things. The question is what motivates them, what is their intention, what do they actually do and what is the effect. Jesus came to change us into Childen of the Father motivated by love and freedom that the cross brings. The power of the gospel is if we give up doing things by our own understanding, repent and give everything to Him, He changes and empowers us to overcome the world through obedience to His word. The whole point of this step is giving up ones life and giving all to Christ. Somehow people here say we have not done this.

Now calling people liars about their own lives is a very bad thing, a sin. Now I have no clue how you come to faith, or why you follow Christ but I will take you at face value until you give me reason to doubt your truth and integrity. Starting by calling me evil, of satan, unsaved, not understanding the basics of faith is just stupid. I have spent years teaching and discipling people in these very ideas. So I can only conclude it is something in your backgrounds that has brought this delusion on yourselves and you believe condemning every christian not like you as unsaved is the way to go.

 

[Nikki84]

I saw an interesting post yesterday about gnostics. The Grace only message is what they taught and they have been rejected.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I saw an interesting post yesterday about gnostics. The Grace only message is what they taught and they have been rejected.

What would you add to the message of Grace through faith?

 

[Nikki84]

What would you add to the message of Grace through faith?

I won't add anything. The Grace only crowd is taking away, like the gnostics

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I already showed what God's will for us to become saved is in John 6:40 and you are confusing this with God's will for us AFTER we have been saved. You mix it all together to create a works salvation cocktail. Salvation by works is not the will of God. You are teaching performance based salvation.

Righteous conduct is the proof of faith. What you teach is free (from having to do anything) grace.