Once Saved Always saved....Read this

[eternally-gratefull]

There is a contradiction in peoples thinking. If God does not force His love on to us, it is a choice. If it is a choice, we can choose to walk away. If we can walk away, then it is possible to lose the relationship.

Now if I give an analogy of trusting the Lord in what we do, EG uses this as saying I am trying to earn my salvation.

This is why I call him a troll, 100%. I do not know how many times people have been in a dangerous situation and called out to the Lord and he has answered them. You are a saved person and the Lord gives guidance and reassurance. Now if someone wants to turn this into something else that is their problem.

I call this perversion and dishonesty. I am not saying difficult points or even wanting to deceive or lie yet this is what I am accused of. It is strange how a simple testimony or example can be turned like a barbed dart to accuse another of sin and lostness. Forgive them for they know not what they are doing is appropriate here. I only know one language of the heart, and all I can do is share. It is strange how wolves prowl desiring to tear others apart.

Dishonesty is saying someone lives in the past. when they do not

It is saying someone is calvanist when they are not

It is saying someone hates works, when they do not

It is saying someone is against works, and obedience when they are not

It is saying you are not doing what you continue to do on a daily bases..

You need to look in the mirror

 

[PeterJens]

Jonah didn't exactly get the chance to walk away.

Interesting point. Jonah believed God, but did not want to see the people of Nineveh forgiven. So he was not walking in unbelief he wanted to just not be the vessel of Gods message. There must be more to it than this, because Jesus called the sign of Jonah as being significant of the death and resurrection.

And a further point is once you really understand the Lord, why would you walk away? But it still means there is a choice.

Lucifer exercised his choice along with the some of the hosts of heaven. If you think about it, the issue of who God is and how he rules is core to the nature of choice and creation. We are called to exercise responsibility and not just be robots. Now that is scary, until you realise the Lord has provided the tools. Look at Moses when the Lord called him. He certainly did not want the job. The Lord knows those who are meek and not pushy, who understand the real costs of leadership, and would rather run the other way. So yes we have choices, but not easy ones.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

why does Paul say no good thing dwells in his flesh? and Peter refers to the desires of the flesh as 'corrupt' and 'polluting' ?
the Spirit i received is holy, and urges me to walk righteously - just like you say, in the first part of the post i'm quoting - but my flesh is contrary to it, and and has desires contrary to it.
what i understood the gnostic view to be (there are many 'gnosticisms' but the one primarily being discussed in this thread) was that the flesh counted for nothing at all, and that grace superabounds wherever sin abounds, so the heresy was not just that it 'didn't matter what the flesh did' but more than that, that they actively debased themselves in the flesh by following after its lusts, thinking that by doing so they had all the more grace, and brought God all the more glory.

what i described of course is false (correct me if i'm wrong about the particular gnosticism you're talking about) -- but there's a difference in believing sinning all the more is some kind of celebration of grace, and believing that grace is able to cover all sin, except for deliberate unbelief an blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.
that heretical view is addressed by Paul in Romans 6:1 -- God forbid!

i'm not really disagreeing with you; i just wanted to point out that the flesh (the outer man) is not of itself holy -- is it right to say, do you think, that it is because the inner man has been sanctified and made holy, that we ought to likewise keep the outward man from corruption, and walk holy? to fittingly and accurately reflect in the outward man the new, holy creation that God has made us inwardly?

Jesus said no good thing dwelt in his flesh.

Now Jesus said to him, "Why are you calling me good? Not one is good except one, God. Mark 10:18​

So saying that nothing good dwells in the flesh doesn't mean that flesh is bad. It just means that there is nothing spiritual in the flesh.

Yes, man's flesh is corrupt, but the holy spirit sanctifies the vessel. Old covenant sin offerings were polluted with sin, but they were most holy, and the priests even ate of them. So the presence of sin does not preclude holiness. Our bodies are sinful, but they are holy (I would say most holy) because they have been set apart for GOD's use and sanctified by the holy spirit.

Gnostics have never held uniform, monolithic beliefs. Some were libertines, some were ascetics. Gnosticism is more of a genre of thought that is distinguished by several salient characteristics. One of those is the dualistic view that all material is evil and all spirit is good. So this idea that only the spirit is holy and the flesh isn't is gnostic to the core.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let me put this simply. EG has said I am 100% what he used to be. Now unless he is actually God, he does not know this.
I do not know his history or doctrinal position but I doubt he believed that people are born with Gods love in their hearts but without a relationship to maintain it.

Your right, I did not believe it, I believed one had the relationship first. then they had the ability to be saved Like you do.

I doubt he believed people have free will and are able to walk in purity and righteousness.

Oh, I Thought I was very righteous, And I was quick to call out other people for sin, and loving their sin. Like you do in here every day

I doubt he has gone through his emotional life and brought it into submission to Christ.

Oh I thought I did this as a young kid, In fact I boasted of it, and could not figure out why others would refuse to do this, like you do in here every day.

Now this is part of who I am, it is my life, not just a mild surface reality. Now every believer I know has this to some degree or other.

It was part of mine every day, I was a hypocrite, A self righteous judgmental, it was my life, it was me,, Just like it is you right now.

Yet EG did not know Jesus before his revelation.

Oh, I knew him, Or at least I thought I did, Until someone confronted me, and showed me the truth, and I saw what my self righteous, blind, proud self was preventing me to see. Which was Gods true unmerciful love and forgiveness.

I do. EG had not experienced the Holy Spirit in His heart, I have.

To be honest, I thought I experienced the HS also.. No one could convince me otherwise, Like you I made excuses, lied about what people said, and di whatever I could to make my belief in God real..

You think you know the HS, but You Have never experienced him, If you did, You would not be preaching what you do, you would not be making God out to be the God you follow. A God who does not keep his word. And gives people gift KNOWING he will have to take it back.

EG did not understand the everlasting nature of love on the cross, I have and it has been foundational to all I have done since my late teenage years.

You mean I did not understand everlasting life? Your right, I did not. Niether do you. Remember, you reject eternal life.. and replace it with conditional life.

So I wonder who this man is, who claims to have all this, yet walked away into heresy, so obvious and blatent, it condemns normal followers of Christ as apostates. I call this delusion, 100%. I do not know this man nor do I wish to know anymore about him. He has already claimed to want to destroy me, which is a really amazingly gracious thing to do. But hey, trolls live on conflict and self belief. Sad, nothing of value here, just a husk of a person who sold out.

No, I do not condemn normal followers of Christ, I condemns legalism, It condemns people who call God liars. Who say his grace has to be earned, Who thinks walking a plank is how one is saved.

I do know you. I do not have to be God to know you. Just listen to what you preach, and hear the same words I taught for years.

 

[PeterJens]

Dishonesty is saying someone lives in the past. when they do not

You just said I was like your past. You did not say I might be, you spoke with certainty.
Now your calvanist leanings are true, though you mix it up with amenian ideas as well. Now I realise you cannot handle any labels or classifications. I did not say you hate works, I said you say if I am doing works it is earning my salvation. It is hard to not conclude you hate works. You continually tell me obedience is legalism, which sounds like obedience is evil.

Now you want to contradict your own beliefs, condemn me, and then say you do the very things you condemn me for doing.

That is why it is useless engaging with you, all you do is fling this stuff which makes no sense, other that you are right, everything you do is right and I am all wrong.

A simple test in your mind, is have I PeterJens done anything good in my life that I have testified to?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You just said I was like your past. You did not say I might be, you spoke with certainty.?

You can't even be honest.

Nothing you just said here supports what you said, that I like to live in he past.

living in the past means it is in your mind all day every day.. Your focused on it, It drives you.

Nothing you said proves this.

So you just proved you are a liar.

You like to play games? Games always find you out.. You should give up.. Seriously

 

[thepsalmist]

Seems like you both are in the throes of a personal dispute on a public board.

Might be nice if one or the other would turn the other cheek ...

But what do I know ... maybe someone is benefiting from this?

 

[Blain]

Seems like you both are in the throes of a personal dispute on a public board.

Might be nice if one or the other would turn the other cheek ...

But what do I know ... maybe someone is benefiting from this?

No I think your right we all have to know when to shake the dust off our feet and walk away or else we are just fueling the fire. Oh and about Jonah and the fish guys I think it was a whale sounds exactly like a whale

 

[Chuckt]

Seems like you both are in the throes of a personal dispute on a public board.

Might be nice if one or the other would turn the other cheek ...

But what do I know ... maybe someone is benefiting from this?

[video=youtube;FEjRkhjLs1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEjRkhjLs1M[/video]

 

[PeterJens]

I do know you. I do not have to be God to know you. Just listen to what you preach, and hear the same words I taught for years.

Here is the problem EG. The bible is full of words, and they are repeated time and again but people mean different things by them. Now I know I am not like you, because I have not found many with my background or experience. You certainly were brought up in a very different home and with a very different set of experiences.

There comes a point were you have to give up and let God. The first thing you have to do is actually believe you do not know me. Until you do this you will never hear my heart or experiences. I have put infront of you things that should break your heart, but you have not flinched, not even a little. That is unusual. Many others have experienced the same problems, with this dogmatic self belief you have, as if you are dragging out something you know is there but cannot get a handle on it.

You know it when you see a victim and let them have it. Now some are naive, but I am not. As I asked before, have you ever lead anyone to the Lord? Have you cried with anyone, or wept over the sin of a nation? Do things that touch others or cause them pain in relationships seem odd and unusual to you? Because I get the feeling the place you live is very alien to me, and not somewhere I want to go, sorry to disappoint you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Seems like you both are in the throes of a personal dispute on a public board.

Might be nice if one or the other would turn the other cheek ...

But what do I know ... maybe someone is benefiting from this?

I am not in a dispute

I have a person lying about myself and other people. And I am calling him out on it.

If people would just admit that he is doing what he is doing, instead of just me and a few others. This would not be a dispute anymore.

People enable him by allowing him to continue to lie.

Sorry, I will not enable anyone.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No I think your right we all have to know when to shake the dust off our feet and walk away or else we are just fueling the fire. Oh and about Jonah and the fish guys I think it was a whale sounds exactly like a whale

We do not continue to allow others to bear false witness against others.

Anymore than we would allow a man to keep cheating on his wife with another woman.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here is the problem EG

The problem is you keep bearing false witness against others, and think you do not have to repent.

Then go around preaching we must do all these good works and obey God. or else we can not have a relationship with God, Which makes Christianity look bad..

I told you I would keep calling you out on it. And I am a man of my word.

 

[PeterJens]

I am sorry guys.

EG believes lots of junk as he demonstrates and his mission is to put people right.
Now if I say believe in Christ and you will be empowered to walk in righteousness and do good works, is this
"we must do all these good works and obey God. or else we can not have a relationship with God"

unless my understanding of english has changed, one is about faith and fruit and the other is works salvation.

Now I call this stupid, because as I never preach works salvation, but EG says I do, because of his interpretation of what works salvation is, he wants to say what he says. That is fine that he expresses his point of view but it looks stupid when in reality this is not what I am saying.

So calling me out on something I am not doing is also stupid. But EG wants to be stupid, go right ahead, who am I to stop someone looking incredibly stupid, unable to argue, discuss or even be civil or take someone at face value, and claim they are exactly what they were years ago.

But enough of you respect his words, so obviously you agree with his point of view. Now that is sad. But so it has always been, and will be until the day of judgement.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am sorry guys.

For what. Beiring false witness, and refusing to admit you do it?

EG believes lots of junk as he demonstrates and his mission is to put people right.
Now if I say believe in Christ and you will be empowered to walk in righteousness and do good works, is this
"we must do all these good works and obey God. or else we can not have a relationship with God"

unless my understanding of english has changed, one is about faith and fruit and the other is works salvation.

Now I call this stupid, because as I never preach works salvation, but EG says I do, because of his interpretation of what works salvation is, he wants to say what he says. That is fine that he expresses his point of view but it looks stupid when in reality this is not what I am saying.

So calling me out on something I am not doing is also stupid. But EG wants to be stupid, go right ahead, who am I to stop someone looking incredibly stupid, unable to argue, discuss or even be civil or take someone at face value, and claim they are exactly what they were years ago.

But enough of you respect his words, so obviously you agree with his point of view. Now that is sad. But so it has always been, and will be until the day of judgement.

My mission is not to put people right, it is to win people to God and help them grow.

But I am not going to sit while people like you lie about myself and my brothers and sisters.

So do you want to repent that you have one this, or keep up this tirade if trying to deny your sin. while putting the blame on everyone else.

 

[Blain]

We do not continue to allow others to bear false witness against others.

Anymore than we would allow a man to keep cheating on his wife with another woman.

and that is good but there is also is a time when we realize that they will not listen no matter what you say, time spent on deaf ears would be much better used for other things. eventually it just becomes senseless arguing

 

[Blain]

I am sorry guys.

EG believes lots of junk as he demonstrates and his mission is to put people right.
Now if I say believe in Christ and you will be empowered to walk in righteousness and do good works, is this
"we must do all these good works and obey God. or else we can not have a relationship with God"

unless my understanding of english has changed, one is about faith and fruit and the other is works salvation.

Now I call this stupid, because as I never preach works salvation, but EG says I do, because of his interpretation of what works salvation is, he wants to say what he says. That is fine that he expresses his point of view but it looks stupid when in reality this is not what I am saying.

So calling me out on something I am not doing is also stupid. But EG wants to be stupid, go right ahead, who am I to stop someone looking incredibly stupid, unable to argue, discuss or even be civil or take someone at face value, and claim they are exactly what they were years ago.

But enough of you respect his words, so obviously you agree with his point of view. Now that is sad. But so it has always been, and will be until the day of judgement.

Well then you would be wrong about eg if that is what you think he is saying also it is not becoming of a Christian to call anyone stupid

 

[Blain]

I am sorry guys.

EG believes lots of junk as he demonstrates and his mission is to put people right.
Now if I say believe in Christ and you will be empowered to walk in righteousness and do good works, is this
"we must do all these good works and obey God. or else we can not have a relationship with God"

unless my understanding of english has changed, one is about faith and fruit and the other is works salvation.

Now I call this stupid, because as I never preach works salvation, but EG says I do, because of his interpretation of what works salvation is, he wants to say what he says. That is fine that he expresses his point of view but it looks stupid when in reality this is not what I am saying.

So calling me out on something I am not doing is also stupid. But EG wants to be stupid, go right ahead, who am I to stop someone looking incredibly stupid, unable to argue, discuss or even be civil or take someone at face value, and claim they are exactly what they were years ago.

But enough of you respect his words, so obviously you agree with his point of view. Now that is sad. But so it has always been, and will be until the day of judgement.

Well then you would be wrong about eg if that is what you think he is saying also it is not becoming of a Christian to call anyone stupid

Another thing is that I respect anyone's words who speaks God's heart I do not choose sides

 

[thepsalmist]

Sorry if I have offended ... I was just trying my hand at peacemaker ... but even Jesus said He was not an arbitrator between men (Luke 12) ... I humbly bow out.

 

[PeterJens]

I wish I had born a false witness against EG, then i would have something to repent of.

Is it bearing a false witness to repeat back what someone has written, so show up their contradictions, to question their heart? But to the hard hearted like EG it is like a waste of words, a peace offering trampled under foot.