-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I knew what you were doing. I was just taking an opportunity off your post.
Yeah, I hear you, "pitting the scripture" against the other when you cannot really recconcile them, especially when you go to "deal with" one and another pops up elsewhere needing to be dealt with to get it to go away, and then all you have is a pile of the various "dealings with". Whether that be the mockings of persons (who didnt write it) or something else that might not scream wisdom.
Yeah, I hear you, "pitting the scripture" against the other when you cannot really recconcile them, especially when you go to "deal with" one and another pops up elsewhere needing to be dealt with to get it to go away, and then all you have is a pile of the various "dealings with". Whether that be the mockings of persons (who didnt write it) or something else that might not scream wisdom.
C
There it is, the absolute.
Only took 108 posts. God is a God of order and this has to do with the all in all of God, the spiritual household, the church, right down to the very fabric of the family unit, there is an order and design to function.
There is a reason why the church the body of Christ is masculine. And, there is a reason we will be caught away to take a position in the kingdom of God, it has to do with the bride of Christ and the order of things.
Only took 108 posts. God is a God of order and this has to do with the all in all of God, the spiritual household, the church, right down to the very fabric of the family unit, there is an order and design to function.
There is a reason why the church the body of Christ is masculine. And, there is a reason we will be caught away to take a position in the kingdom of God, it has to do with the bride of Christ and the order of things.
C
Yes but you don't even know the law. If it's in the law I suppose orthodox Jews should have read it. If it's not in the law the text may refer to women not authoratively teaching their own men.
The Role of Women / Torah 101 / Mechon Mamre
The Role of Women / Torah 101 / Mechon Mamre
C
1st*Corinthians 11:5*concerning women having their head covered when they pray or prophesy.
Double Portion Inheritance: Does the Mosaic Law Silence Women in the Assembly?
Which Law?
The key phrase in verse 34 is*“just as the law also says.”*Remember, Paul was an educated man. He called himself a Pharisee of the Pharisees. Certainly he knew the law. There is no*“Old Testament”*(TaNaKh) law or scripture that either silences women or subjects them --– none whatsoever. Check the cross reference notes in your Bible for verse 34, and you’ll find no cross reference in the TaNaKh (Old Testament).*Does Paul have the right to silence all the prophetesses of the TaNaKh such as Deborah, Miryam & Huldah?*Inconceivable!
However, for those who were living according to the Talmud, the law that Paul was quoting from was not the Towrah (Mosaic Law). Remember, the Talmud contains regulations and traditions that had become more important than the Towrah (Old Testament book of the Law).*
When Paul quotes their statement back to them in verses 34 and 35, which makes reference to the law, he is attempting to show them that they are still living and operating by the oral law of the Jews or Jewish traditions.
Double Portion Inheritance: Does the Mosaic Law Silence Women in the Assembly?
Which Law?
The key phrase in verse 34 is*“just as the law also says.”*Remember, Paul was an educated man. He called himself a Pharisee of the Pharisees. Certainly he knew the law. There is no*“Old Testament”*(TaNaKh) law or scripture that either silences women or subjects them --– none whatsoever. Check the cross reference notes in your Bible for verse 34, and you’ll find no cross reference in the TaNaKh (Old Testament).*Does Paul have the right to silence all the prophetesses of the TaNaKh such as Deborah, Miryam & Huldah?*Inconceivable!
However, for those who were living according to the Talmud, the law that Paul was quoting from was not the Towrah (Mosaic Law). Remember, the Talmud contains regulations and traditions that had become more important than the Towrah (Old Testament book of the Law).*
When Paul quotes their statement back to them in verses 34 and 35, which makes reference to the law, he is attempting to show them that they are still living and operating by the oral law of the Jews or Jewish traditions.
C
But at least they know the law and that there is no law that says the woman should be silent in church. It was a talmudic law they made themselves. Lol so any christian church that believes and does that is keeping Talmudic law because they are too proud to ask a Jew what the text means and what's in the law.
C
It made it to the pages of my Bible so my contention is that the Bible says all writings (those that are in the Canon of scripture) God breathed. So we are not discussing the Talmud at this point even though that is an interesting observation.
I think it is a salvation issue because women are not submitting to men as the headship of Christ.
I think it is a salvation issue because women are not submitting to men as the headship of Christ.
C
One explanation of the text from a paster woman:
TALMUDIC QUOTES illustrate this:*
A Jewish Prayer:'Praise God He hasn't created me a gentile, a woman or an ignorant man.'*
'The woman, says the law, is in all things inferior to the man.'*
Only men could speak in public*(Beraktoth 4,36; Mishnah Aboth 1,5)*
No woman could give a testimony or conduct business.*(Mishnah Shabbath 4,1)*
Oxford Bible Church - 1 Corinthians 14:34-35: Should Women be Silent in Church?
Paul is quoting what some Jewish converts to Christ, had written in a letter to Paul, complaining about women being involved in church services.*Although they were saved they were used to male-dominated synagogue- worship and so found the equality of women in church life hard to take.
They were saying:*'Paul, these women are prophesying, praying out loud, speaking in tongues. The Oral law says it's shameful for a woman to speak in public. Tell them to shut-up!'
So as Paul is teaching on every member participating in church services, it is the natural place for him to deal with their objection.*So he quotes what they say:*'Let your women keep silent in the churches, for it is not permitted for them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home, for it is shameful for women to speak in church'*(v34,35)
Then he answers them:'What, came the word of God out from you? or came it to you only? If any think himself a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things I write to you*(not the Talmud)*are the commandments of the Lord*(the true authority)*But if any (choose to be) be ignorant, let him be ignorant.'*(v36-38) Paul replies by asserting his apostolic authority above the Talmud.
This also explains why these verses come out of the blue, interrupting the flow of thought, which is picked up again in*v39,40:*'Therefore brethren,covet to prophesy and do not forbid to speak with tongues.'*
The placement of v34,35 in the passage as a clear interruption and marked contrast to what Paul is teaching, serves to separate them from Paul's own views.
We conclude that Paul isn't silencing women, rather the opposite!
See? You should always listen to a paster woman.
TALMUDIC QUOTES illustrate this:*
A Jewish Prayer:'Praise God He hasn't created me a gentile, a woman or an ignorant man.'*
'The woman, says the law, is in all things inferior to the man.'*
Only men could speak in public*(Beraktoth 4,36; Mishnah Aboth 1,5)*
No woman could give a testimony or conduct business.*(Mishnah Shabbath 4,1)*
Oxford Bible Church - 1 Corinthians 14:34-35: Should Women be Silent in Church?
Paul is quoting what some Jewish converts to Christ, had written in a letter to Paul, complaining about women being involved in church services.*Although they were saved they were used to male-dominated synagogue- worship and so found the equality of women in church life hard to take.
They were saying:*'Paul, these women are prophesying, praying out loud, speaking in tongues. The Oral law says it's shameful for a woman to speak in public. Tell them to shut-up!'
So as Paul is teaching on every member participating in church services, it is the natural place for him to deal with their objection.*So he quotes what they say:*'Let your women keep silent in the churches, for it is not permitted for them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home, for it is shameful for women to speak in church'*(v34,35)
Then he answers them:'What, came the word of God out from you? or came it to you only? If any think himself a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things I write to you*(not the Talmud)*are the commandments of the Lord*(the true authority)*But if any (choose to be) be ignorant, let him be ignorant.'*(v36-38) Paul replies by asserting his apostolic authority above the Talmud.
This also explains why these verses come out of the blue, interrupting the flow of thought, which is picked up again in*v39,40:*'Therefore brethren,covet to prophesy and do not forbid to speak with tongues.'*
The placement of v34,35 in the passage as a clear interruption and marked contrast to what Paul is teaching, serves to separate them from Paul's own views.
We conclude that Paul isn't silencing women, rather the opposite!
See? You should always listen to a paster woman.
Are men the head of all women or is the man the head of the woman (as in husband the head of his own wife)?
Like if my husband wants me to do something, but you want me to do something too, who would you say wins between you? And if I were unmarried because I chose not to have a husband to please (but to please the Lord) without such a distraction, who would be my head in that?
Like if my husband wants me to do something, but you want me to do something too, who would you say wins between you? And if I were unmarried because I chose not to have a husband to please (but to please the Lord) without such a distraction, who would be my head in that?
I would suppose they would then fall under this same
1 Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
That would fit in that instance, if its not in the law (as some can acknowledge, among christians even) but folks try to squeeze it in there and not understanding Paul in it and not what they are affirming in the same huh?
1 Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
That would fit in that instance, if its not in the law (as some can acknowledge, among christians even) but folks try to squeeze it in there and not understanding Paul in it and not what they are affirming in the same huh?