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Maybe this will help Mitspa. Those verses are an Old Testament prophecy of the Messiah. Eve's transgressions were covered by the son that would eventually come from family tree. She was saved in childbearing not because having children or being a good mother could save her but because her family tree would eventually produce the Messiah.
M
Are you serious? Paul is talking about women in the church and the restrictions on those women because of Eve ..its not a quote from the old testament about salvation through Christ ..thats just silly. Let me remind myself I'm talking to a guy that believes the KJV (revised 8 times) is divinely translated ... and more accurate than the Greek itself. You don't understand those scriptures and seem to have no intention of trying to understand?
I just want to point out that all bibles are not equal and they don't all say the same thing. A person will never understand what "saved in childbearing" means by reading the NIV. They changed "she" (Eve) to women, totally obscuring the meaning of that passage.I just checked and found the NASB did it also.
1 Timothy 2:14-15New International Version (NIV)
14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[a] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Footnotes:
1 Timothy 2:14-15New International Version (NIV)
14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[a] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Footnotes:
- 1 Timothy 2:15 Greek she
U
Once again your not reading my post....
How is it bad when the facts are her pants are tight, would you rather me lie and say they are loose....the truth is the truth...I don't care if Joyce Meyer wears pants tight or loose that's her choice.....Im just pointing out the facts...yet again you have to get all heated up over nothing, aside from the joker pic which was just a joke...how have I torn her down? and please don't use the cliche "20 something" to beat people over the head with the age factor....its not cool.....I'm saying despite what women wear men should have enough self-control to avoid temptation/crucify the flesh...Also you would have a right to be upset if you were joyce meyer's stylist but since i highly doubt that why get all bothered over it???
If my sister asked me do these pants look tight or loose and they are tight pants...I tell her they look tight....I don't be PC I tell the truth as it is to the best of my ability....
How is it bad when the facts are her pants are tight, would you rather me lie and say they are loose....the truth is the truth...I don't care if Joyce Meyer wears pants tight or loose that's her choice.....Im just pointing out the facts...yet again you have to get all heated up over nothing, aside from the joker pic which was just a joke...how have I torn her down? and please don't use the cliche "20 something" to beat people over the head with the age factor....its not cool.....I'm saying despite what women wear men should have enough self-control to avoid temptation/crucify the flesh...Also you would have a right to be upset if you were joyce meyer's stylist but since i highly doubt that why get all bothered over it???
If my sister asked me do these pants look tight or loose and they are tight pants...I tell her they look tight....I don't be PC I tell the truth as it is to the best of my ability....
D
Give it a break, oh holier-than-thou! YOU DID offend me. You offended me often. You called a woman a skank. You compared her to a prostitute. You admitted you look at prostitutes as a habit, and proved it by finding picture after picture of prostitutes. And that is your opinion of woman, I out and out told you I AM offended by people feeling free to judge women in particular by their outward appearances only.
And what do you do about it? Turn it into "all you are wrong and I am right. How dare you put me down? You might cause precious-little-ole-me to stumble. DUDE? You didn't just stumble. You fell into a deep and dark hole. And what are you doing about it? You're trying to talk us into joining you.
I came back for one reason -- to see, perchance, if you would ask for forgiveness after me telling you point blank what you were doing was wrong on so many, many levels. (And, note: On the original question we agree.) But nooooo!
In your height of arrogance you decided to go back to make sure you offend every last person, because it's all about YOU!
You truly do not fear for anyone else's well being because you can see no one else but you. You are the misery, and no, I don't want your company.
Should I do what you're doing? Everytime I disagree with something you say, I should start running down all men by their looks based on the fact you're a man? (That's what you did to women -- all women!) Should I give some kind of pompous excuse to blame it on everyone else when I really mean you are wrong or I'm in a holier-than-thou mood so I'm wrong?
Are you very selective on your topic reading on this site? Because you missed a topic that has come up in the last couple of weeks more than once -- forgiveness.
So is this your teaching on how you forgive, or is this your teaching on how to seek forgiveness?
YOU OFFENDED, DUDE! You managed to offend everyone on every side except those who think like you and really do think it's all about appearances just-as-long-as-we're-only-talkin'-women, of course! At this moment one person is left agreeing with you -- KJV1611. Doesn't that tell you ANYTHING?
I'll leave you something, because obviously, to you, it's all about appearances if we're merely skanky women. (Because who else would be a skank but a woman? There is no gender-specific word for a man with the same attributes.) I'll give you what you like doing the most -- a photo of me so you can tear me up some more by my looks. (You've torn me up every other which-way, so why not continue? And yes, there's a lot to give you to tear up look wise. If you need help, I can assist you with more added insults on how I look. I know them all.)
Get it out! Insult me by my looks. Get it all out, so you stop insulting 51% of the population and then some. (Since insulting all women wasn't enough, you had to insult all believers too.)
YES! IT IS A BIGGIE AND YOU CONTINUE TO DO IT!!!!!
(Too subtle?)
And what do you do about it? Turn it into "all you are wrong and I am right. How dare you put me down? You might cause precious-little-ole-me to stumble. DUDE? You didn't just stumble. You fell into a deep and dark hole. And what are you doing about it? You're trying to talk us into joining you.
I came back for one reason -- to see, perchance, if you would ask for forgiveness after me telling you point blank what you were doing was wrong on so many, many levels. (And, note: On the original question we agree.) But nooooo!
In your height of arrogance you decided to go back to make sure you offend every last person, because it's all about YOU!
You truly do not fear for anyone else's well being because you can see no one else but you. You are the misery, and no, I don't want your company.
Should I do what you're doing? Everytime I disagree with something you say, I should start running down all men by their looks based on the fact you're a man? (That's what you did to women -- all women!) Should I give some kind of pompous excuse to blame it on everyone else when I really mean you are wrong or I'm in a holier-than-thou mood so I'm wrong?
Are you very selective on your topic reading on this site? Because you missed a topic that has come up in the last couple of weeks more than once -- forgiveness.
So is this your teaching on how you forgive, or is this your teaching on how to seek forgiveness?
YOU OFFENDED, DUDE! You managed to offend everyone on every side except those who think like you and really do think it's all about appearances just-as-long-as-we're-only-talkin'-women, of course! At this moment one person is left agreeing with you -- KJV1611. Doesn't that tell you ANYTHING?
I'll leave you something, because obviously, to you, it's all about appearances if we're merely skanky women. (Because who else would be a skank but a woman? There is no gender-specific word for a man with the same attributes.) I'll give you what you like doing the most -- a photo of me so you can tear me up some more by my looks. (You've torn me up every other which-way, so why not continue? And yes, there's a lot to give you to tear up look wise. If you need help, I can assist you with more added insults on how I look. I know them all.)
Get it out! Insult me by my looks. Get it all out, so you stop insulting 51% of the population and then some. (Since insulting all women wasn't enough, you had to insult all believers too.)
YES! IT IS A BIGGIE AND YOU CONTINUE TO DO IT!!!!!
(Too subtle?)
D
You are PC, so don't tell me you don't do PC. You're out with your buddies and across the street your sister is walking by. One of your buddies tells what he's thinking about her because her pants are too tight. Different reaction then?
Yeah, how about that. Your sister is important to you, but women in general are just objects to be looked at. And don't deny it, since you already proved it with Joyce Meyers. That's what I hold against you. And since the 20-somethings are STILL doing this, there is no hope for the future. (And since women joined in, there is no hope for the future.)
Everyone talks up how women are just as capable as men, but when the foot hits the pavement, their words prove it's just PC and only to be spoken in the right context to look good. It doesn't go deep into the heart. After all -- women are only here for man's pleasure.
Yeah, how about that. Your sister is important to you, but women in general are just objects to be looked at. And don't deny it, since you already proved it with Joyce Meyers. That's what I hold against you. And since the 20-somethings are STILL doing this, there is no hope for the future. (And since women joined in, there is no hope for the future.)
Everyone talks up how women are just as capable as men, but when the foot hits the pavement, their words prove it's just PC and only to be spoken in the right context to look good. It doesn't go deep into the heart. After all -- women are only here for man's pleasure.
B
You are PC, so don't tell me you don't do PC. You're out with your buddies and across the street your sister is walking by. One of your buddies tells what he's thinking about her because her pants are too tight. Different reaction then?
Yeah, how about that. Your sister is important to you, but women in general are just objects to be looked at. And don't deny it, since you already proved it with Joyce Meyers. That's what I hold against you. And since the 20-somethings are STILL doing this, there is no hope for the future. (And since women joined in, there is no hope for the future.)
Everyone talks up how women are just as capable as men, but when the foot hits the pavement, their words prove it's just PC and only to be spoken in the right context to look good. It doesn't go deep into the heart. After all -- women are only here for man's pleasure.
Yeah, how about that. Your sister is important to you, but women in general are just objects to be looked at. And don't deny it, since you already proved it with Joyce Meyers. That's what I hold against you. And since the 20-somethings are STILL doing this, there is no hope for the future. (And since women joined in, there is no hope for the future.)
Everyone talks up how women are just as capable as men, but when the foot hits the pavement, their words prove it's just PC and only to be spoken in the right context to look good. It doesn't go deep into the heart. After all -- women are only here for man's pleasure.
I have said it in this thread before, a lot of these verses must be taken in context of the culture and time.
As i said, some concepts in the bible are eternal, and unmovable.
Others, like in some specific instances when the NT discusses woman are to be understood in reference to the times.
Here is an example. If someone from today, with absolutely no knowledge of the struggle of black rights in this country read a short newspaper article from the 1950's in which it said: "City counsel votes to allow blacks to sit in the front of bus' ", the person from today's times would be appalled. He or she would say "they voted to permit a human being to ride in the front of a bus? Why would anyone need to vote on that? What was up with those people? "
But from our perspective and knowledge of history, we know that the vote to allow blacks to ride in the front of a bus was actually advancing the cause of their rights.
That is what Paul was proposing when he was speaking about woman being permitted to do this or that. Also, in some of the towns that Paul wrote, their was a heavy influence of pagan goddess worship, and the men of the church, along with some woman, thought it would be taken the wrong way if woman had to much involvement in the newly established Christian church. They thought that it may be misconstrued as some kind of cross religion mix with the pagan goddess idol worship going on in that day in areas of Greece.
So again, viewing the context of the times we live in, woman can preach, woman, in times of emergency can temporarily lead a church, woman can co-pastor a church under the leader ship of a man as a co-pastor. Woman can be junior pastors.
God does make concessions to the times we live in. It does not mean He is pleased with it, but He will allow certain things. He allowed a man after his own heart to have multiple wives. Clearly not Gods picture of a marriage relationship. But God permitted it.
Then there are the things in the bible which never change. Many things. That God will not make concessions to. They are eternal and immovable. Love, forgiveness, etc. are some of them. Men as the head of families and as the head of the church is another.
As i said, some concepts in the bible are eternal, and unmovable.
Others, like in some specific instances when the NT discusses woman are to be understood in reference to the times.
Here is an example. If someone from today, with absolutely no knowledge of the struggle of black rights in this country read a short newspaper article from the 1950's in which it said: "City counsel votes to allow blacks to sit in the front of bus' ", the person from today's times would be appalled. He or she would say "they voted to permit a human being to ride in the front of a bus? Why would anyone need to vote on that? What was up with those people? "
But from our perspective and knowledge of history, we know that the vote to allow blacks to ride in the front of a bus was actually advancing the cause of their rights.
That is what Paul was proposing when he was speaking about woman being permitted to do this or that. Also, in some of the towns that Paul wrote, their was a heavy influence of pagan goddess worship, and the men of the church, along with some woman, thought it would be taken the wrong way if woman had to much involvement in the newly established Christian church. They thought that it may be misconstrued as some kind of cross religion mix with the pagan goddess idol worship going on in that day in areas of Greece.
So again, viewing the context of the times we live in, woman can preach, woman, in times of emergency can temporarily lead a church, woman can co-pastor a church under the leader ship of a man as a co-pastor. Woman can be junior pastors.
God does make concessions to the times we live in. It does not mean He is pleased with it, but He will allow certain things. He allowed a man after his own heart to have multiple wives. Clearly not Gods picture of a marriage relationship. But God permitted it.
Then there are the things in the bible which never change. Many things. That God will not make concessions to. They are eternal and immovable. Love, forgiveness, etc. are some of them. Men as the head of families and as the head of the church is another.