Paster Women?

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C

coby

Guest
Is that obeying what God said?
No don't think so, well, not if it's his wife. I believe a woman may teach, but always with a covering, otherwise you just have feminism.

Lisa Bevere who also preaches has a great book. John was weak and didn't step up, so she did. Not that she became the preacher, but she took the lead in the house, until she was exhausted and let him lead.
It's called freedom from control.
Widows in the Bible had to teach the younger women how to obey their husbands and that's exactly what she does. They're both in ministry. Tell me what's so evil about that? Awesome book.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Considered is a military word. Satan scrutinizes us and when the man was away, he tempted the woman. Satan didn't tempt the man. He found a weakness in woman and because they were the prototypes, we sin in Adam because he was the federal head. But if we have Eve running the church again, Satan will exploit that weakness again and tempt the church because he scrutinizes everyone and women today can't do better than the prototype "Eve". When we think that we know better than God is when everyone will experience problems and you can rationalize it but are we obeying God if we don't do what He says? All scripture is inspired by God and when we look to the Bible as a history book, we aren't obeying. The Bible is God's words to us.



2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture (writings) is given by inspiration (breathed) of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. for instruction in righteousness:

When we do what we want to do, we are on the throne of God and we're in charge and that is the sin that caused spiritual death. Man wanted to become God so we have to repent of wanting to be God by having our lives on the throne and follow Him in His words which is the Bible.
Weak! Very weak!
He didn't tempt Adam because he was stronger?


He didn't tempt Adam because God never said, "Thou shalt not fix thy house/playeth sports/rideth a very fast vehicle."

Give the Garden a leaky pipe, a football, or a Harley Sportster, and Adam would have been the sinner first.

Food! No matter what kind of fruit that was women love food. There was scientific research done a couple of decades ago that established men think about sex every 3-7 seconds and women think about food every 3-7 seconds. Sex wasn't out in the Garden. Food was.

When we're not eating food, we're thinking about which food to eat next. If we're not doing that, we're thinking of which is the very best food to eat at that given moment, and then when that moment passes, we have a different food to think about. (Raspberries, chocolate, raspberries with chocolate, raspberries with peppermint, peppermint and chocolate. All that went through my brain just while I wrote that one sentence. Now I'm trying to figure out how to combine raspberries, chocolate AND mint together, except! I know me. I won't like mint by the time I make the concoction!) Lots and lots of fruit in the garden, but one couldn't be eaten. Immediate grounds for wanting THAT fruit.

Adam wasn't stronger. The only thing illegal was in Eve's domain of brain-thought more.

And, again. I just taught you something about the mind of a woman, so you can't keep insisting we cannot teach. We can. Really really. In my case, I even went to college to learn how to teach. It's not illegal outside the church or inside the church for women to teach.

And you're really annoying me thinking women are helpless against sin without a man hovering over us. (Either that's what you're saying or you have some strange idea that we women are only helpless in church itself. If we are, what's that say about church?) You're also implying it's the man's job to go to the throne for women.

Ooooo, bananas and chocolate! Ever have chocolate covered bananas? Yummers!

Nope. Nuts! Peanuts or cashews? (This is a constant loop in my brain.)
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
Any moreso or lessso than what you're trying to teach us?
Then can a drunk be a pastor? If we can disobey the word then why can't a violent person be a pastor?

Maybe someone thinks God is telling them to divorce their wife. The truth is that God wrote it down because people lie and God's plumb line by which He judges us is His word.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
​Well, if a man is too weak spiritually to pick up the slack and be a pastor, then the woman ought to step up and take his place instead. SOMEBODY needs to be a pastor. If man can't do it, then pray tell me, who will??
Personally, I'm all for the silent-treatment approach for this. We still have younger woman and children to teach, so if men want to sit back and wait for someone else to take the pastor role, why not we just go about our lives while taking care of those we're supposed to take care of? Worse comes to worse, that church falls apart and disappears. If a man won't pastor it, it should fall apart and disappear! We're protecting the younger folk while this happens. Maybe, if it happens often enough, it avoids happening again, simply because passive didn't work for the guys.

We do fall back on what comes naturally to us. We fall back because we remember when it worked for us. If it stops working for us, then we don't fall back to it. That's a two-way street. If we take back our roles, they take back their roles -- the ones God gave both of us, not merely the ones we learned work for us.

It's not good that we take authority over guys. It's no better and no worse than guys stepping back from loving us like Christ loves the church.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
No doubt we're all emotional beings, but I would say woman more so than men in many circumstances in life, especially when being slandered or ridiculed by the opposite sex. If I'm wrong on this then tell me; I'm here to learn. Besides, no one can see my temper tantrums through the computer screen. :p
"You're gay."

What is the reaction to that statement if it's aimed at a woman? What's the reaction to that statement if it's aimed at a man? Isn't that being slandered and ridiculed?

(Different things set us off. As far as I can tell that and how we go off are the large differences in our gender makeup.)

(And I've seen your temper tantrums through the computer screen just like you've seen mine. THAT we have in common. lol)
 
M

Miri

Guest
Weak! Very weak!
He didn't tempt Adam because he was stronger?


He didn't tempt Adam because God never said, "Thou shalt not fix thy house/playeth sports/rideth a very fast vehicle."

Give the Garden a leaky pipe, a football, or a Harley Sportster, and Adam would have been the sinner first.

Food! No matter what kind of fruit that was women love food. There was scientific research done a couple of decades ago that established men think about sex every 3-7 seconds and women think about food every 3-7 seconds. Sex wasn't out in the Garden. Food was.

When we're not eating food, we're thinking about which food to eat next. If we're not doing that, we're thinking of which is the very best food to eat at that given moment, and then when that moment passes, we have a different food to think about. (Raspberries, chocolate, raspberries with chocolate, raspberries with peppermint, peppermint and chocolate. All that went through my brain just while I wrote that one sentence. Now I'm trying to figure out how to combine raspberries, chocolate AND mint together, except! I know me. I won't like mint by the time I make the concoction!) Lots and lots of fruit in the garden, but one couldn't be eaten. Immediate grounds for wanting THAT fruit.

Adam wasn't stronger. The only thing illegal was in Eve's domain of brain-thought more.

And, again. I just taught you something about the mind of a woman, so you can't keep insisting we cannot teach. We can. Really really. In my case, I even went to college to learn how to teach. It's not illegal outside the church or inside the church for women to teach.

And you're really annoying me thinking women are helpless against sin without a man hovering over us. (Either that's what you're saying or you have some strange idea that we women are only helpless in church itself. If we are, what's that say about church?) You're also implying it's the man's job to go to the throne for women.

Ooooo, bananas and chocolate! Ever have chocolate covered bananas? Yummers!

Nope. Nuts! Peanuts or cashews? (This is a constant loop in my brain.)


Oh now im hungry again and I only just finished lunch. Lol
 
C

coby

Guest
"You're gay."

What is the reaction to that statement if it's aimed at a woman? What's the reaction to that statement if it's aimed at a man? Isn't that being slandered and ridiculed?

(Different things set us off. As far as I can tell that and how we go off are the large differences in our gender makeup.)

(And I've seen your temper tantrums through the computer screen just like you've seen mine. THAT we have in common. lol)
I think we should do a test who can insult the other best and who has the most emotional reaction. Then we know and it's a nice way to all become best friends.
Or were we already doing that in this thread?

post2.jpg
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
No, you. I remember it right.



I agree with you on the shut-up-in-church thingy. In general, I disagree that those verses have anything to do with if women should be pastors, so we can't disagree on women pastoring through those verses.

We'll have to disagree with other verses though. And, honest. As stated above, I am against women being pastors. I am nor against women pastors, so our disagreement isn't any big deal to me. I hope it's not a big deal to you either. We do agree on acting right/good manners in church.

I can't see either one of us being interested in going to the other's church, but I do see us being part of God's Church together.

This thread has gone haywire. But I think the rational ones, (and much to the chagrine of a few guys on here, that includes the ladies and women), understand it's no more important than pants v. dresses debate among the women. I won't be wearing a dress any time soon either, but it doesn't mean I hold anything against women who do. (Men, maybe. Well, maybe. I like kilts. I think they're snazzy, even though I'd never wear one. But not women.)

See? I've been listening. Not quite as emotional as guys think I am.

Well what I believe is that Paul was speaking to that situation,telling those women to be silent.We have indications that the women were new to church and were disrupting the service by asking questions out loud. I do not take that to mean women are not to speak at all. And of course I do agree with female pastors. :)
 
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Well what I believe is that Paul was speaking to that situation,telling those women to be silent.We have indications that the women were new to church and were disrupting the service by asking questions out loud. I do not take that to mean women are not to speak at all. And of course I do agree with female pastors. :)
Where does the bible say the women were disrupting the church by asking questions aloud?
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
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He says ''I'' do not permit a woman to teach.its his own opinion and not a commandment. Check romans 16 where he greets 10 woman that are ministers and leaders. God bless
 
M

Miri

Guest
Just came across the following article which makes some interesting
points. Sorry it's a bit long oh and it as written by a man. I don't know
all of the American references it mentions, so can't give an opinion.
on these parties.

Can Women Lead the Church? — Ministry Today



Gender bias runs deep in the church and has historically prevented women from
fulfilling their leadership call. It's time to dispel the myths about the role of women.
Let's open our eyes to what the Bible really says.

When delegates to the Southern Baptist Convention's annual meeting gathered in
1929, leaders agreed to allow the president of the Women's Missionary Union (WMU)
to address their group for the first time. But when she stood to speak, a number of
male delegates got up from their chairs and stormed out of the room in protest.
They caused such a commotion that the Baptists were forced to hammer out an
odd compromise: They decided that the WMU president could only speak if she gave
her report in a Sunday school room rather than in the main hall.

The reason for this uproar was that certain male clergy were afraid that by allowing
a woman to speak from a pulpit, she would violate what they called "the dictum
of St. Paul"--the apostle Paul's directive in 1 Timothy 2:12 in which he prohibits
women from having "authority over a man (NASB)." It isn't clear why this poor
WMU president did not exercise as much authority over her male audience when
she spoke in a smaller room. In fact, what the Baptists did in this case was irrational.
The same can be said for the completely illogical way the church today views the
issue of women in spiritual authority.

Today, because so many conservative Christians have viewed 1 Timothy 2:12 ("I do
not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man") as a uni versal
injunction--to be applied to all churches at all times--we have cultivated a bizarre fear
of strong women who preach or teach. This is a strange view indeed, for three reasons:

**First, we know from Scripture that women held the office of prophet under the Old
Covenant, and that under the New Covenant the apostle Paul himself placed women
in positions of authority in the early church, even at a time when females in secular
society were barred from pursuing education or leadership roles.

**Second, the Bible challenges men and women alike to be strong and courageous
in their faith and in their response to the Great Commission. There is no reason to
assume that Jesus only intended males to evangelize the world. Both men and women
are called to "go" and to "teach." Timidity is never portrayed as a virtue in the Scriptures,
for either gender.

**Third, the history of Christianity is full of examples of strong, godly women who achieved
remarkable breakthroughs for the kingdom of God. To say that women should not display
spiritual strength or do exploits in the name of Jesus is to discredit everything that Christian
women have done throughout history to further the gospel.

If we want to stake a claim that women shouldn't lead the church, are we prepared to
say that everything women have done to expand the kingdom of God was a mistake?
Is the Salvation Army an illegitimate organization because a strong, vocal woman preacher
was a driving force behind it? Do we really want to negate the countless missionary
breakthroughs made in the 19th and 20th centuries in China and India, since so many
women--such as Amy Carmichael, Bertha Smith or Marie Monsen--were responsible
for the pioneering work there?

If we look at the history of revival movements, it is clear that whenever there has been
a deepening of spiritual passion and holiness in the church, and a corresponding call
to evangelism, women have responded to the call to ministry even when it was culturally
unacceptable for them to do so. This was true during the Second Great Awakening
in the United States, which unleashed an army of women to fund missionary movements
and to lead the abolitionist cause. It was also obvious in the early days of the Pentecostal
revival, which mobilized women preachers to blaze trails in foreign and domestic mission
fields. These women, including healing evangelist Lilian Yeomans, Carrie Judd Montgomery,
Minnie Draper, Ida Robinson, Aimee Semple McPherson and Florence Crawford, started
churches that still flourish today.

These women were not looking for a spotlight or a pulpit, nor were they out to win an
argument or to prove that women are better than men. They were prayer warriors who
loved the Word of God and used it skillfully to combat the evils of their day. They were
mothers of the faith who nurtured new converts with the milk of salvation and trained
their disciples to pursue spiritual maturity.

Women who have given their lives to serve Jesus on the front lines deserve our respect.
But in the American church, we typically have turned our backs on our sisters when
they have dared to suggest that God has drafted them into His army. The strongest
and most determined of these female warriors learned to endure the ridicule; but we
will never know how many women gave up the fight and abandoned the call because
the church required them to bury their spiritual gifts.

Adding insult to injury. Women in many denominations today have encountered rejection
when they stepped out in public ministry. Jill Briscoe, a prominent evangelical author who
pastors a church with her husband in Milwaukee, told Christianity Today in 1996 that she
was silenced a few years ago when she began to teach the Bible to a group of 3,000
teen-agers at a youth conference.

"I introduced my subject and opened the Scriptures and read them and began to explain
them," Briscoe said. "At that point a pastor stood up and told me, 'Stop! In the name of
the Lord!' and said that I was out of order. He then rebuked my husband, saying that he
should be ashamed to allow his wife to usurp his authority. He then took his young people
out, and several other people followed."

In some charismatic and Pentecostal circles, the label "Jezebel" is often pinned on women
who have teaching or leadership skills, or simply because they express their opinions to
their pastors. The insulting implication is that any Christian woman who steps outside
the lines of ecclesiastical propriety and presumes to speak for God or displays any level
of courage is labeled rebellious or conniving.

Pinning the Jezebel label on a woman of God is a blatant attempt at character assassination.
After all, Jezebel was the personification of evil. We read in 1 Kings 18-19 that she wielded
tyrannical power over Israel through her spiritual ties to the cult of Baal. From her position
as queen, sitting beside King Ahab, Jezebel was responsible for the murder of many of
Israel's true prophets. Her strategy was to intimidate the righteous followers of God
while promoting Baal worship--so that the sexual perversion associated with her
brand of paganism would eventually control the entire country.

This queen was eventually overthrown, along with her wicked husband, but she is mentioned
again in the New Testament as a metaphor for sexual immorality and occult deception.
In the apostle John's message to the church in Thyatira (Rev. 2:20), he issues a warning
from Christ about the "woman Jezebel" who "calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches
and leads My bond-servants astray, so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things
sacrificed to idols."

Jezebel was most likely not this woman's real name. John used a form of code language
in the book of Revelation to protect the vulnerable churches from persecution. He pinned
the name Jezebel on this self-appointed female church leader in Thyatira because she was
claiming to speak for God and yet was promoting sexual sin and idolatrous worship.
She represents the ultimate false prophet, and it is insidious to compare her to godly
Christian women who are teaching and preaching the truth of the gospel.

It is offensive to suggest that a woman who loves Jesus Christ, walks in personal holiness
and upholds the Word of God with integrity is influenced by a "spirit of Jezebel"--just
because she is female! Yet I have lost count of the number of women who have told
me that they were accused of being a "Jezebel influence" because they functioned
as a pastor, an evangelist or a even lay leader.

Silly superstitions. Five hundred years ago, Protestant reformer John Knox taught that
God brings a curse on a nation if it is governed by a woman. Never mind the fact that
most nations in that period were led by wicked kings who did not honor the law of God
or abide by any rule of Christian integrity. Yet Knox believed the moral condition of a
nation would slide abruptly into hell if a queen took the throne.

In a tract he wrote in 1558 titled "The First Blast Against the Monstrous Regiment of
Women," the Scottish reformer wrote: "If women take upon them the office which
God hath assigned to men, they shall not escape the divine malediction." Although
he directed most of his attack on two Roman Catholic queens, Mary Tudor of England
and Mary Guise of Scotland, and he referred to them both as "Jezebels," Knox made
it clear that he believed that God always opposes women who hold positions of authority.

That same view still lingers in the modern church. In the early 1980s, when so many
religious conservatives were active in the political arena in the United States,
some of them opposed President Ronald Reagan's appointment of Judge Sandra Day
O'Connor to the Supreme Court. Their fund amentalist views of male headship in society
did not allow for a woman to assume a top position in civil authority.

Justice O'Connor isn't the most conservative jurist on the high court, and I don't appreciate
her position on abortion. But she did not lead our nation to ruin, any more than Margaret
Thatcher's 11-year term as prime minister triggered the downfall of Great Britain. In fact,
in the mid-1990s, some of the most vocal women elected to the U.S. Congress were
Bible-believing, evangelical Christians who stood bravely against the status quo by
challenging legalized abortion, the tobacco industry and foreign aid to countries that
tolerate religious persecution.

In many churches in the United States, Christian men have developed a superstitious
notion that if they listen to a woman preach, or if they attend a Sunday school class
taught by a woman, or even if they allow a woman to provide any form of spiritual counseling
to them directly, they are violating an unwritten law that forbids women from occupying
a place of authority in their lives. They also fear that if they do this, they will come under
some type of spell that leaves them deceived and spiritually weakened.

This is rooted in a fear that if a man submits to a woman even by listening to her counsel,
his own maleness will be diminished. How foolish! If the Bible is our guide, and not cultural
bias, then we need to consider the many times in Scripture when women influenced men
or exercised godly authority over them.

Judges 4 tells us that at one time in history a woman held the highest position of spiritual
authority in Israel. The Bible clearly states that God anointed Deborah as judge of Israel,
gave her wisdom and prophetic counsel, and granted a 40-year period of peace as a
result of her effective leadership (see Judg. 4:1-5). And the men who honored her
authority were blessed.

We read in Judges 4:8 that Barak, Israel's chief military commander, refused to go into
battle without Deborah after she unveiled the Lord's strategy to defeat the Canaanites.
It was not an admission of fear on Barak's part when he asked Deborah to accompany
him into the fray. He was not a "mama's boy" who felt unsure about his masculinity.

On the contrary, Barak recognized that Deborah was an anointed servant of God, and
that the mantle of heaven's authority rested on her. Because she had the plan of victory,
he wanted to stay close to her. He simply refused to fight without the Lord's prophet by his
side.

In today's church, we need an army of Baraks who are so desperate to hear the word of
the Lord that they are willing to humble themselves and receive it from whomever
God chooses to speak through--even if that prophet is a woman. We as men need to
swallow our male pride and our haughty "I know better than you, dear" attitudes. If we
are truly walking in spiritual brokenness, we will not care whether the Holy Spirit speaks
through a man, a woman, a child or a donkey. We will simply want God, and we will place
no stock in the imperfect clay vessel God chooses.

Where are the Priscillas? In Acts 18:24-28, we read that a skilled preacher named
Apollos, a zealous convert from Judaism, was teaching the message of Jesus
in Ephesus. But because he had never been instructed properly about water
baptism or the infilling of the Holy Spirit, Paul's co-workers, Priscilla and Aquilla,
took him aside and "explained to him the way of God more accurately (v. 26)."

Was Apollos spiritually emasculated when he submitted to Priscilla's correction?
Absolutely not. His ministry was strengthened because of the helpful input he
received from this wise disciple, who most likely functioned in an apostolic role
as a teacher and church planter. She is commended by Paul as one of his
"fellow workers" in Romans 16:3. And in 1 Corinthians 16:16, the apostle urges
his followers to submit to "everyone who helps in the work and labors." Since
"everyone" in this passage obviously includes Priscilla as well as Junia, Phoebe
and the other women who assisted Paul on his apostolic team, we can clearly see
that he asked the early church to acknowledge the authority of the women who
worked with him.

Apollos most likely felt indebted to Priscilla and her husband for their mentorship.
She became a mother in the faith to him.What would have happened in the New
Testament church if Apollos had been too proud to receive correction and theological
instruction from her? It's possible that he would have fallen into serious error, thereby
thwarting the work of God in Asia Minor and perhaps even derailing his ministry.
What similar pitfalls could be avoided in our day if more men were willing to receive
counsel, correction and insight from seasoned women ministers?


 
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M

Miri

Guest
There are numerous other examples in the Scriptures of godly women who
provided counsel, instruction or correction to men. Huldah the prophetess
was sought out by King Josiah's top leaders for her advice about the
spiritual condition of their nation (2 Kin. 22:14-20). When the elderly
prophetess Anna recognized that the baby Jesus was the long-awaited
Messiah, she proclaimed his identity to his parents and to all who came
into the temple. She was, in fact, one of the first people on planet Earth
to publicly proclaim the gospel of the new covenant. And the apostle Paul
mentions a total of seven women when listing his trusted co-laborers; these
were women who functioned as either pastors, evangelists, deacons or apostles.


It seems odd indeed that Christian men would have difficulty accepting the
authority of women when every man has had to submit to the instruction
and discipline of his own mother. In the Christian family we expect a mother
to exercise authority: She not only provides nurturing love and sustenance
to her children, but she brings swift discipline when necessary, and her
children benefit most when her instruction is rigorous. Don't we need the
same qualities in our spiritual mothers? Shouldn't we expect them to rule
with godly authority?


Most Christian men, whether they admit it or not, would not be where they
are today had it not been for the Priscillas and other spiritual mothers who
came alongside them at the right time and gave a timely word of encouragement
or counsel. Because of insecurity, we think our masculinity is deficient if we
admit we need the insights that these women provide. The church as a whole
would be better off if we would ask God to shatter our male pride so we can
make room for these women to function in their divine giftings.


Strength is her clothing. Nowhere in the Bible are women called to be weak. A
careful study of women in Scripture reveals that the godly women who served His
purpose in their generation displayed courage, endured hardship and exercised
the kind of faith that overcomes impossible odds. Righteous women in the Bible
did not sit in the back of the church with their mouths shut or wait until they got
permission to challenge injustice.


The great women of the Bible were fearless. Remember the Jewish midwives,
who put their own lives in jeopardy in Egypt to protect the infants who had
been sentenced to death by Pharaoh. Remember Rahab, who disobeyed
the authorities in Jericho because she knew God was with the Israelite
spies. Her faith saved her household and placed her in the lineage of Christ.
Remember Esther, who placed her own life on the line because she believed
God could use her to turn the heart of a king and save thousands of lives.


If we examine the "model woman" described in Proverbs 31, it's obvious that
she is not a mousy housewife or a timid wallflower. She did not allow patriarchal
society to define her worth in terms of her sexuality, her appearance or her mundane
domestic duties. We are told that she "girds herself with strength, and strengthens
her arms" (v. 17, NKJV). This doesn't mean she was a female bodybuilder; the
passage refers to her strength of character and her readiness for spiritual battle.


A major misconception in the church today is that women were created to be
weak and shy, and that it is abnormal or even perverse for a woman to display
of strength. Rather than argue about whether women are weak, can't
we acknowledge that we are all just clay vessels? Whether male or female, we
are frail in our humanity and in our tendency to sin. None of us who aspire to
the ministry can ever hope to see lives changed by Christ's presence if we rely
on our own fleshly abilities. We are called to glory in our weakness so that
He might be strong in us.


It's time for the weaker vessels to come forth. Christian women who have lived
in the shadows of insignificance need to arise and put on strength. This is the
hour that Joel foretold, a time for both the sons and the daughters to prophesy.
Women of God, you can't be silent anymore! *
 
Feb 28, 2016
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if you're truly called by your Heavenly Father, then yearn to be the very best
you can be, the Holy Spirit will teach you everything you will need to know
in order to eventually have a clear conscience about every aspect of your walk,
but know this,, it will take some time.....
 
C

coby

Guest
Where does the bible say the women were disrupting the church by asking questions aloud?
That's an interpretation to make it match with the opposite texts, that everyone could prophesy and Philip had 4 prophesying daughters.

Btw it says:
*Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.

Not: Let a woman prophecy in silence.
Of course you have to shut up when someone is preaching.
 
M

Miri

Guest
if you're truly called by your Heavenly Father, then yearn to be the very best
you can be, the Holy Spirit will teach you everything you will need to know
in order to eventually have a clear conscience about every aspect of your walk,
but know this,, it will take some time.....

Youve done it again, managed to put in a few sentences what takes me a dissertation. Lol.