Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version

[Budman]

These, the majority of them, do indeed want salvation by grace only while teaching disobedience

Where do you get the idea that we "teach disobedience"?

We have always said we are to live a life pleasing to God, but that we cannot live in perfect obedience. To do so, would be to claim we never sin - which is completely unbiblical.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This really is the crux of the controversy. Our new nature gives us the ability and power to do the will of GOD.

But to those who are steeped in the elixir of total inability, obedience is not at all necessary because the new nature itself is what saves (e.g., eternal life is eternal, what's born can't become unborn, circumcision can't become uncircumcision, blah, blah, blah...).

So our new nature gives us the ability,

But eternal does not mean eternal?

Thanks. But no thanks,

Our new nature does give us the ability, and we will do our new nature.

But eternal is eternal. no matter how many times you want to say it is not truel

 

[JaumeJ]

People should read what I post before acting as though they understand it.

 

[Grandpa]

I have read the testimonies of ex-legalists, saying they gave up trying to be righteous because it was hypocracy.
Then they found Jesus and acceptance. This should have then empowered them to walk in righteousness, not because they had to, but because this is the reality of love and reaching out to others. But what has happened is they are now frozen in defeat and condemn the desire to walk righteously as legalism. So nothing has actually changed just their place on the scales of how they regard the impossibility of it all.

The problems often lie deep in their past and how they are emotionally built. Rather than letting the Lord remake them they are truly defended and unable to change. So whatever position they take, things will always fail.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

All Christians are ex-legalists.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


There is no greater burden or heavy yoke than trying, through the flesh and will, to be perfect according to a carnal understanding of the law.

But Christ gives us rest from our own work at our own righteousness. The Lord Jesus Christ makes us Righteous when we come to Him. Not by our work but as His Gift to us.


Its great that all you legalists and humanists and Judaizers have the desire to walk righteously according to the law. But know that the law doesn't make anyone perfect.

Your desire should cause you to come to Grace. Come to Christ and recieve Rest from your "righteous" walk with the law. Be made Righteous by Christ. Be His Workmanship.


2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.


The Lords Strength is made perfect in our weakness. Because we have given up relying on our own strength and will, and in our weakness, rely on His.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you want the Law the standard is not "doing your best", the standard is "be perfect". How perfect? As perfect as the Father in Heaven. How ya doin' now?

"Doing your best" is a program for failure.

I can see it now on judgment day.

Them - "but God I did my best to obey all your commands, I know I was not perfect, But I did my best.

Jesus - Don't ya get it, Thats why I came, Because you best would not be good enough. That the reason I died, Thanks for trying, but you best is not good enough. I am sorry, Depart from me,," ,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

People should read what I post before acting as though they understand it.

Maybe you could show them where they got it wrong?

 

[PennEd]

Matthew 7:13-14New King James Version (NKJV) [h=3]The Narrow Way[/h][SUP]13 [/SUP]“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Because[SUP][a][/SUP] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

THIS is the narrow gate and Way: Ephesians 2:8-9New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Many believe that walking on the narrow path (Way) is like walking on a tightrope, and falling one way is because of legalism, trying to keep the Law. If you fall the other way it is because of licentiousness, and believing you can sin all you want and it means nothing to God.
I believe the Lord's answer to this problem is the same He gave Joshua, "NO". Joshua 5:13-15New King James Version (NKJV)
[h=3]The Commander of the Army of the Lord[/h][SUP]13 [/SUP]And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, a Man stood opposite him with His sword drawn in His hand. And Joshua went to Him and said to Him, “Are You for us or for our adversaries?”

[SUP]14 [/SUP]So He said, “No, but as Commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.”

Once you've gone though the narrow gate, and proceed down the path, on the one side you have God the Father's hand, can't fall that way, on the other side is God the Son's hand, can't fall that way, and behind is the Pillar of fire guarding the rear.

That is the Grace that we should embrace! Welcome it, love it and spread the Good News about it!

Peace, Joy, and Love to you all. In Jesus Holy name!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

All Christians are ex-legalists.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


There is no greater burden or heavy yoke than trying, through the flesh and will, to be perfect according to a carnal understanding of the law.

But Christ gives us rest from our own work at our own righteousness. The Lord Jesus Christ makes us Righteous when we come to Him. Not by our work but as His Gift to us.


Its great that all you legalists and humanists and Judaizers have the desire to walk righteously according to the law. But know that the law doesn't make anyone perfect.

Your desire should cause you to come to Grace. Come to Christ and recieve Rest from your "righteous" walk with the law. Be made Righteous by Christ. Be His Workmanship.


2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.


The Lords Strength is made perfect in our weakness. Because we have given up relying on our own strength and will, and in our weakness, rely on His.

wow thanks,, I never thought of it this way, Great point!!

 

[roaringkitten]

This really is the crux of the controversy. Our new nature gives us the ability and power to do the will of GOD.

But to those who are steeped in the elixir of total inability, obedience is not at all necessary because the new nature itself is what saves (e.g., eternal life is eternal, what's born can't become unborn, circumcision can't become uncircumcision, blah, blah, blah...).

If eternal life isn't eternal, God wouldn't have called it eternal life. You are calling God a liar!

"In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began" Titus 1:2

 

[Budman]

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

All Christians are ex-legalists.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


There is no greater burden or heavy yoke than trying, through the flesh and will, to be perfect according to a carnal understanding of the law.

But Christ gives us rest from our own work at our own righteousness. The Lord Jesus Christ makes us Righteous when we come to Him. Not by our work but as His Gift to us.


Its great that all you legalists and humanists and Judaizers have the desire to walk righteously according to the law. But know that the law doesn't make anyone perfect.

Your desire should cause you to come to Grace. Come to Christ and recieve Rest from your "righteous" walk with the law. Be made Righteous by Christ. Be His Workmanship.


2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.


The Lords Strength is made perfect in our weakness. Because we have given up relying on our own strength and will, and in our weakness, rely on His.

Awesome post, Grandpa!

 

[Grace777x70]

What is the origin of obedience? There are only 2 sources - 1)..you doing it...or 2) the life and love of Christ that transforms us.

We do not transform ourselves - we yield to the life of Christ through the Spirit and His life transforms us.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

are being transformed = passive which mean it is the Spirit of the Lord that changes us - it is NOT us doing it.

We participate by yielding to the Holy Spirit changing us but it will be natural and things will fall off of us as His fruit bears in and through us.

An old covenant preacher will use carrots and sticks to motivate you to obey. Heed this sort of preaching and you will become an insecure, distrustful believer with an up and down lifestyle. Your walk with God will be a caricature of true Christianity and you’ll be a bad advertisement for the gospel.

A new covenant preacher, on the other hand, will seek to reveal God’s unconditional love to you and from this secure, rock-solid foundation, inspire you to walk confidently as a child of God. As you do this, you will find yourself obeying God effortlessly and you will be a stunning advertisement for the gospel!

 

[Budman]

what's born can't become unborn, circumcision can't become uncircumcision, blah, blah, blah...

How flippant. It really shows how you actually feel about God's amazing gift.

 

[JaumeJ]

Is Jesus Christ our Example to follow?

If your answer is no...and you think you are saved, you are the worst form of grace only.

Before coming to Christ we were children of disobedience (Eph.), but now we obey, though when we fial, and we will, we do not have the guilt of our transgression held against us.

I have never said we are to obey the law without the teaching of Jesus Christ as to how to approach it, but the holier than thou segment, a large segment, of the grace only folks do not understand because they refuse to hear.

We, the true grace only folks, know we are only saved by grace, but we are not such ingrates as to teach against learning how to obey the law according to the gospel of Jesus Christ......with mercy, faith, and justice. The Pharisees did not understand these three points of the law, nor do the Pharisees of today who belive all they need do after coming to Jesus Christ is get on the luge to heaven sitting on their duffs doing nothing to show their gratitude.

Yes, we are saved by grace, we, the children of obedience.

PS...It has come to my attention that people are posting I teach law, and that I believe I earn my salvation........these folks have not understood a word I hve posted being deaf, dumb and blind.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How flippant. It really shows how you actually feel about God's amazing gift.

I am still trying to figure out how a man can become uncircumcised.. Did they save the foreskin so they could sew it back on?

When your stuck in pride, you can not even see the thigs you say makes no sense, which is bad enough, but then you start to say things which are IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[Grandpa]

When obeying the Father, we obey Jesus Christ lead by the Holy Spirit. Disobedience is out of the question, while obedience is our natural course of action in the gift of Love given us.

Anyone thinking that knowing to obey is legalistic is deceived by the enemy and knows nothing of how our faith has established the law. I should not need repeat this, but I will. The law is obeyed according to the teching and the example of our Savior, Jesus Christ. If you do not already understand this basic manner of obedience then you have not yet learned that disobedience is of the enemy.........

Romans 1:21-22
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


Obedience is a gift of God.

Galatians 3:3-5

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


The law is obeyed by abiding in Christ. It is Christs workmanship in us that causes our obedience. He is the source of ALL of our Blessing.

Its not by our strength or will or mimicry or understanding.

 

[Budman]

S...It has come to my attention that people are posting I teach law, and that I believe I earn my salvation........these folks have not understood a word I hve posted being deaf, dumb and blind.

It may be because of statements like this:

Yes, we are saved by grace, we, the children of obedience.

You need to be clearer. It seems you are saying we receive grace through obedience - and not the other way around.

 

[roaringkitten]

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

All Christians are ex-legalists.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


There is no greater burden or heavy yoke than trying, through the flesh and will, to be perfect according to a carnal understanding of the law.

But Christ gives us rest from our own work at our own righteousness. The Lord Jesus Christ makes us Righteous when we come to Him. Not by our work but as His Gift to us.


Its great that all you legalists and humanists and Judaizers have the desire to walk righteously according to the law. But know that the law doesn't make anyone perfect.

Your desire should cause you to come to Grace. Come to Christ and recieve Rest from your "righteous" walk with the law. Be made Righteous by Christ. Be His Workmanship.


2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.


The Lords Strength is made perfect in our weakness. Because we have given up relying on our own strength and will, and in our weakness, rely on His.

Great post! It's like Israel who had a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge, they tried to establish their own righteousness:

"Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." Rom 10:1-4

The Apostle Paul said this to the Galatians:

"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" Gal 3:3

 

[JaumeJ]

It is obvious most here have not read the Word, not all of it anyway.

 

[Grace777x70]

Is Jesus Christ our Example to follow?

If your answer is no...and you think you are saved, you are the worst form of grace only.

Before coming to Christ we were children of disobedience (Eph.), but now we obey, though when we fial, and we will, we do not have the guilt of our transgression held against us.

I have never said we are to obey the law without the teaching of Jesus Christ as to how to approach it, but the holier than thou segment, a large segment, of the grace only folks do not understand because they refuse to hear.

We, the true grace only folks, know we are only saved by grace, but we are not such ingrates as to teach against learning how to obey the law according to the gospel of Jesus Christ......with mercy, faith, and justice. The Pharisees did not understand these three points of the law, nor do the Pharisees of today who belive all they need do after coming to Jesus Christ is get on the luge to heaven sitting on their duffs doing nothing to show their gratitude.

Yes, we are saved by grace, we, the children of obedience.

PS...It has come to my attention that people are posting I teach law, and that I believe I earn my salvation........these folks have not understood a word I hve posted being deaf, dumb and blind.

The law has done it's job and is now retired for the righteous. It was made for the unrighteous. We are the righteous ones in Christ.

1 Timothy 1:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24

The law is good! But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross. Satan uses the law against us.

Satan comes and says to you - you broke the law - you are condemned now according to the law. BUT our Lord took that punishment for breaking that law for us. When Christ takes away the condemnation of the law which satan uses against when he accuses us - he is being "disarmed".

If disarmed means anything - it means he did have a weapon but now he doesn't because of our Lord. How great is our salvation in Him!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is Jesus Christ our Example to follow?

Yes, There is no other example we can really use, Although reading about how great men of God handled their failures is always good to use.

If your answer is no...and you think you are saved, you are the worst form of grace only.

hmmm, I have been here for 4 years. I have maybe seen one person who thought this.. maybe two? But that was along time ago.

So one great thing, is no one presently in Christian chat believes this.

Before coming to Christ we were children of disobedience (Eph.), but now we obey, though when we fial, and we will, we do not have the guilt of our transgression held against us.

Amen, that is because of grace, and mercy of God.. Which is incomprehensible.

I have never said we are to obey the law without the teaching of Jesus Christ as to how to approach it, but the holier than thou segment, a large segment, of the grace only folks do not understand because they refuse to hear.

Refuse to hear? What? Again, Are you teaching salvation is eternal now and can not be lost, because of everything you just said? Or are you still of the belief salvation can be lost?

We, the true grace only folks, know we are only saved by grace, but we are not such ingrates as to teach against learning how to obey the law according to the gospel of Jesus Christ......with mercy, faith, and justice. The Pharisees did not understand these three points of the law, nor do the Pharisees of today who belive all they need do after coming to Jesus Christ is get on the luge to heaven sitting on their duffs doing nothing to show their gratitude.

A pharisee never taught he could sit on his duff If you think so, You have no idea what a pharisee tought. They were the religious workers, the religious do gooders. the ones who always taught obedience, Judging sinners

Your scaring me Jaume, Do you even read and study the gospel letters?

And no one here is teaching we can sit on our duff after we are saved, So not sure who you are talking to here.

Yes, we are saved by grace, we, the children of obedience.

We are obedient because we are saved, (grace)

We are not saved because we are obedient, Make sure you get this right. (legalism)

PS...It has come to my attention that people are posting I teach law, and that I believe I earn my salvation........these folks have not understood a word I hve posted being deaf, dumb and blind.

I have asked you a few times now.. Do you believe salvation is aquired by faith, but perfected by works? (ie it can be lost if works are not maintained)?

can you please answer.