Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version

[Grace777x70]

It doesn't take long for the gospel of the grace of God to be watered down by "law-keepers". The true gospel has been attacked since it's inception.

By the time that Paul came to Jerusalem in Acts 21 - the gospel had been severely eroded by legalists ( law-keepers ). There were "thousands" of them that were falling from grace.

Paul constantly was battling these people as they would come to a place after he preached and teach people to "obey the law".

Acts 21:20-21 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law;

[SUP]21 [/SUP] and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

2 Peter 1:5-15King James Version (KJV)

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.

So I take it you believe in eternal insecurity also?

I would make sure my calling is sure also. And not just assume I am saved.

But I would never twist peters words to be saying he is telling us one who is born again, Has eternal life Has the seal of the spirit. Has been given every spiritual blessing in the heavenly. has been justified freely, Has been wahsed, Cleansed, Circumcized by the hands of God. (I can go on and on and on)

Would ever fall into a state they no longer have these things.

 

[JaumeJ]

You cannot answe4r to such a serious question with a simple yes or no because the teachings go beyond a simple yes or no to the question, the only one word answer would have to be "depends." Actually in English grammar the word it is understood, so it is a two word answer with the first word understood.

To defiantly sin, that is to to defy God by thinking it is your wisdom dictating all is well if you commit a sin is the same as what Satan may say, again to weaken to sin is another story, you still believe you are doing wrong, but not in defiance of our blessed Father. You see the difference? I will not resort to name calling, like coward or the like, but I will ask that God bless you with understanding always, in Jesus Christ's name, amen.

Never mind. I have my answer. It is completely clear to anyone reading our discourse.

Your refusal to state simply what you believe shows that you would much rather conceal it. You are being purposely deceptive.

Example: If you were to ask me if I believe a Christian could lose their salvation based on their obedience, I would answer:

No.

See? Very clear and concise.

Not so with you.

But again, don't worry. I now know you believe.

So yes, you are a legalist.

 

[roaringkitten]

.....

 

[JaumeJ]

Gee, gosh, how many times have I posted we are to obey Jesus Christ? To follow His example? To learn the law as He teaches it? That we are saved by grace only, not by deeds? And much much more regarding it being our due to obey Jesus Christ's teachings?

I think the watering down is grace only without responsibility. Tkhe faith we have been given by God leads us to faith, and faith leads to good woks. That faith is like the talent of gold for our faith is likened to the gold of the street of New Jerusalem. If we take the gold given to us and bury it in the dirt, when the Master returns He will take it and give it to the servant who worked his faith to a profit for the Master, and throw out that worthless servant who buried his gold in the dirt..

There is never anything wrong with obedience according to the teaching of Jesus Christ, but those who continueally say that teaching this is being a legalist are not understanding this or they are liars, children of disobedience, and not worthy of being heard at all.

 

[Budman]

You cannot answe4r to such a serious question with a simple yes or no because the teachings go beyond a simple yes or no to the question

No. It does not.

I can image a similar conversation with you:

Me: Did Jesus die on the cross? Just a simple yes or no will do.

You: Well, it depends on what you mean by "die". Can God die? Did only His flesh die, or was it also spiritual death?

Me: Umm, did the man Jesus Christ die on the cross? Yes or no.

You: Hard to say. He was more than a man, right? Is it correct to say a mere man died?

Me: Did the physical man Jesus die on the cross? Just a simple yes or no.

You: Well, to physically die would mean the end of His flesh. Yet, He was raised in His flesh, so His flesh didn't "die" per se.

Me: Please shoot me in the head.

 

[Grace777x70]

Does anyone know about the Hebrew Roots theology?...is it biblical?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You cannot answe4r to such a serious question with a simple yes or no because the teachings go beyond a simple yes or no to the question, the only one word answer would have to be "depends." Actually in English grammar the word it is understood, so it is a two word answer with the first word understood.

To defiantly sin, that is to to defy God by thinking it is your wisdom dictating all is well if you commit a sin is the same as what Satan may say, again to weaken to sin is another story, you still believe you are doing wrong, but not in defiance of our blessed Father. You see the difference? I will not resort to name calling, like coward or the like, but I will ask that God bless you with understanding always, in Jesus Christ's name, amen.

yes we can.

God promises to all who have faith in him

1. eternal life
2. They will never hunger or thirst, they will live forever, they will never die, they will be raised on last day (john 6)
3. That have been justified freely
4. They have been given the seal of the holy spirit until the day of redemption is at hand
5. Thay have passed out of death, and into life
6. They have been adopted as Gods sons and daughters
7. That God wil never leave nor FORSAKE THEM (under any circumstance)
8. That even if we are faithless, he is faithful.

and again, I can name so many many more things we have been assured. who have faith in God and trusted him.

So sorry.

The only reason you say what you just said, is you do not have faith in God to keep his promises..

 

[Budman]

Does anyone know about the Hebrew Roots theology?...is it biblical?

Here ya go, bub.

What is the Hebrew Roots movement?

 

[thepsalmist]

So I take it you believe in eternal insecurity also?

I would make sure my calling is sure also. And not just assume I am saved.

But I would never twist peters words to be saying he is telling us one who is born again, Has eternal life Has the seal of the spirit. Has been given every spiritual blessing in the heavenly. has been justified freely, Has been wahsed, Cleansed, Circumcized by the hands of God. (I can go on and on and on)

Would ever fall into a state they no longer have these things.

Nor did I twist Peters words ... I did not place even ONE of MY words in there. Make of the scripture as you will.

I believe what I believe ......

 

[JaumeJ]

I am certain you are able to imagine much, when Adam and eve ate from the tree of knowledge it was said now man will be able to do anything he can imagine. Go ahead, imagine., butt do not prefabricate. Not only have I given you a full and detailed reply, I have explained why full and detailed is necessary, so you just keep twisting theis thread around to suit your spirit.......me, I stick with what the Word teaches, albeit oft times paraphrased.......it is your bliss.

No. It does not.

I can image a similar conversation with you:

Me: Did Jesus die on the cross? Just a simple yes or no will do.

You: Well, it depends on what you mean by "die". Can God die? Did only His flesh die, or was it also spiritual death?

Me: Umm, did the man Jesus Christ die on the cross? Yes or no.

You: Hard to say. He was more than a man, right? Is it correct to say a mere man died?

Me: Did the physical man Jesus die on the cross? Just a simple yes or no.

You: Well, to physically die would mean the end of His flesh. Yet, He was raised in His flesh, so His flesh didn't "die" per se.

Me: Please shoot me in the head.

 

[Budman]

Not only have I given you a full and detailed reply,

There's a simple word for that: Baloney.

You said a lot, and said next to nothing. But again, I now know you believe a Christian can lose their salvation based upon their obedience.

So.....thanks!

 

[Grace777x70]

Does anyone know about the Hebrew Roots theology?...is it biblical?

I found a website that tells what it's belief's are. The Hebrew Roots theology needs to be looked at to see where they are coming from and then we can understand the law vs grace issues associated with them.


This is from our CC very own JGIG's website...she has done extensive research on their beliefs.

https://joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com/?s=Hebrew+roots

 

[Grace777x70]

Here ya go, bub.

What is the Hebrew Roots movement?

Thanks!......

 

[JaumeJ]

Boy, you are using your imagination to the hilt. Imagination alone is not sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Thank you for the lesson you have given to all who believe Jesus Christ, especially concerning obedience to Christ's teachings....

There's a simple word for that: Baloney.

You said a lot, and said next to nothing. But again, I now know you believe a Christian can lose their salvation based upon their obedience.

So.....thanks!

 

[Budman]

Thanks!......

Gern geschehen...

 

[Budman]

Boy, you are using your imagination to the hilt

Oh? Am I wrong?

So, you don't believe a Christian can lose their salvation based upon their obedience?

A simple "yes" or "no" will be adequate for a bumpkin like me.

 

[Gr8grace]

Gee, gosh, how many times have I posted we are to obey Jesus Christ? To follow His example? To learn the law as He teaches it? That we are saved by grace only, not by deeds? And much much more regarding it being our due to obey Jesus Christ's teachings?

I think the watering down is grace only without responsibility. Tkhe faith we have been given by God leads us to faith, and faith leads to good woks. That faith is like the talent of gold for our faith is likened to the gold of the street of New Jerusalem. If we take the gold given to us and bury it in the dirt, when the Master returns He will take it and give it to the servant who worked his faith to a profit for the Master, and throw out that worthless servant who buried his gold in the dirt..

There is never anything wrong with obedience according to the teaching of Jesus Christ, but those who continueally say that teaching this is being a legalist are not understanding this or they are liars, children of disobedience, and not worthy of being heard at all.

The Holy Spirit only takes faith alone in Christ alone and makes that effectual for a mans salvation.

The Holy Spirit doesn't take faith that has ANYTHING attached to faith alone in Christ alone. He will not make that faith effectual for salvation.

I will be obedient and believe.......not effectual.

I will be good and believe.......not effectual.

I will follow the law and believe.......not effectual.

I can do nothing and I trust the Lord Jesus Christ alone for my salvation............effectual. Saved.

Faith alone in Christ alone is the only way to receive the Gift. Obedience is rewarded.

And if we have never had THE faith, and just our bloody rags obedience(Because we need to be saved and have the Spirit to do DIVINE good) We don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The Holy Spirit only takes faith alone in Christ alone and makes that effectual for a mans salvation.

The Holy Spirit doesn't take faith that has ANYTHING attached to faith alone in Christ alone. He will not make that faith effectual for salvation.

I will be obedient and believe.......not effectual.

I will be good and believe.......not effectual.

I will follow the law and believe.......not effectual.

I can do nothing and I trust the Lord Jesus Christ alone for my salvation............effectual. Saved.

Faith alone in Christ alone is the only way to receive the Gift. Obedience is rewarded.

And if we have never had THE faith, and just our bloody rags obedience(Because we need to be saved and have the Spirit to do DIVINE good) We don't have a leg to stand on.

What you have described is salvation by gnosis. The illusion of knowing GOD through knowledge (image in the mind), rather than salvation through understanding (in the heart), knowledge (in the mind) and wisdom (conduct of the body).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nor did I twist Peters words ... I did not place even ONE of MY words in there. Make of the scripture as you will.

I believe what I believe ......

If you believe peter was saying we could lose salvation.

Yes you did twist his words. Because Peter did not contradict the rest of scripture.