Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version
- Thread starter PeterJens
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
It is the Holy Spirit ministering to us always. The following, very much relates to you poste below O/N.
It is just one of the reminders as to how we should be as much like Jesus Christ as is given us to be. It is not works; it is our due.
True grace only allows for this conduct, actually it shouts for this conduct. Grace as license does not.
1Pe 2:21 This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because: The Messiah also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in his steps.
To those extremists of grace only I ask, does this teach disobedience, nay, but the contrary, obedience is the reaction of the love that comes with the Holy Spirit and the eternal gift of grace.
It is just one of the reminders as to how we should be as much like Jesus Christ as is given us to be. It is not works; it is our due.
True grace only allows for this conduct, actually it shouts for this conduct. Grace as license does not.
1Pe 2:21 This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because: The Messiah also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in his steps.
To those extremists of grace only I ask, does this teach disobedience, nay, but the contrary, obedience is the reaction of the love that comes with the Holy Spirit and the eternal gift of grace.
All of this is true....many of us have been called from these so-called brethren many names...like we are satanic, we love to sin all we want, I'm a neo-gnostic greasy gracists, , my name has been changed to greasy-gracists777, we have been called liars and we do not believe in obedience to our Lord, nutcases...and I have seen one attack your marriage. They would follow us where we when in threads just like the Judaizers did with Paul and call us names and accuse us of all the above nonsense.
I gave them time to repent but they continued with their malice and slander so I simply put them on ignore and will be until I see repentance - there are tons of scriptural support to have as little to do with them as possible.
I'm praying that they walk rightly with the Lord and with their brethren but seeing as this is not a church setting with no leadership - we need to guard our hearts from this internal attack to the body of Christ.
Here is a thread that talked about the importance of guarding our hearts from what we see...which is why it is called un-Christian porn...and no..there is no Christian porn - it has to do with watching what we see...
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ing-un-christian-porn-protect-your-heart.html
I gave them time to repent but they continued with their malice and slander so I simply put them on ignore and will be until I see repentance - there are tons of scriptural support to have as little to do with them as possible.
I'm praying that they walk rightly with the Lord and with their brethren but seeing as this is not a church setting with no leadership - we need to guard our hearts from this internal attack to the body of Christ.
Here is a thread that talked about the importance of guarding our hearts from what we see...which is why it is called un-Christian porn...and no..there is no Christian porn - it has to do with watching what we see...
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ing-un-christian-porn-protect-your-heart.html
I agree...all this internal attacks are because of the gospel of the grace of Christ. The enemy does not want us to learn about how awesome and complete our salvation is in the finished work of our Lord Jesus.
Make no mistake we are contending for the faith - works-based self-righteousness/holiness mindsets are not from the Holy Spirit - they have a form of godliness but deny the power.
I appreciate you and the others that stand in faith against the attacks on the gospel of the grace of Christ. This ALL about the truth of relying on the grace of God through faith alone.
Will you please demonstrate by indicating one post in this thread that states salvation may be earned by works?
Jesus Christ was obedient unto death on the cross. According to Peter, we are to follow in His example, and His example does not teach disobedience.
Now if you think anyone here is teaching law only, this is a product of an imagination tainted by faith and grace without works. Good works follow salvation, unless the saved is an ingrate, in which case he could very well lose what he thought he had............it is in the Book, in the New Testament part.
Jesus Christ was obedient unto death on the cross. According to Peter, we are to follow in His example, and His example does not teach disobedience.
Now if you think anyone here is teaching law only, this is a product of an imagination tainted by faith and grace without works. Good works follow salvation, unless the saved is an ingrate, in which case he could very well lose what he thought he had............it is in the Book, in the New Testament part.
I agree that the Holy Spirit ministers to us always..Thank you Lord!.
....and I have never seen anyone here who believes in the grace of God say it's a license to sin..it's a straw-man argument....in fact people say the exact opposite ...and they say true grace "teaches" us to live godly in this present world. People that say grace means we can sin all we want are not under grace at all.
They have fallen from grace ( which means they will not be under it and receive it's benefits until they receive it by faith ) - people that say grace is a license to sin are away from grace just like those that try to live by the law-keeping and self-righteousness/holiness mindset. These two mindsets are in fact in the very same boat.
Believing and receiving Christ's righteousness which is a gift is the only way we live in grace.
Romans 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Any transformation in our lives is done by the Holy Spirit in and through us bearing the fruit of Christ's life in us. It's called "enter into His rest"..His works are finished and we walk out the holiness outwardly that is already in us in our inner man in Christ - the new creation created in righteousness and holiness.
We have a good, loving Father and a great complete salvation in our Lord Jesus.
....and I have never seen anyone here who believes in the grace of God say it's a license to sin..it's a straw-man argument....in fact people say the exact opposite ...and they say true grace "teaches" us to live godly in this present world. People that say grace means we can sin all we want are not under grace at all.
They have fallen from grace ( which means they will not be under it and receive it's benefits until they receive it by faith ) - people that say grace is a license to sin are away from grace just like those that try to live by the law-keeping and self-righteousness/holiness mindset. These two mindsets are in fact in the very same boat.
Believing and receiving Christ's righteousness which is a gift is the only way we live in grace.
Romans 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Any transformation in our lives is done by the Holy Spirit in and through us bearing the fruit of Christ's life in us. It's called "enter into His rest"..His works are finished and we walk out the holiness outwardly that is already in us in our inner man in Christ - the new creation created in righteousness and holiness.
We have a good, loving Father and a great complete salvation in our Lord Jesus.
We are saved by grace thorough faith in Christ's finished work alone......and His life in us bears the fruit outwardly in our lives - which is "unto" good works.
I have nom idea what you mean by "ingrate"..but I don't believe one can lose salvation...but we can agree to disagree....
"good works" are the fruit of the life of Christ...not the "root"....in other words good works by themselves do not make salvation which I think you agree with this.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
I have nom idea what you mean by "ingrate"..but I don't believe one can lose salvation...but we can agree to disagree....
"good works" are the fruit of the life of Christ...not the "root"....in other words good works by themselves do not make salvation which I think you agree with this.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Answering on your straw-man segment.
When a grace only individual protests to the declaration that we should obey God for our new nature has converted us from children of disobedience to children of obedience, it cannot be said that this is not equivalent to teaching disobedience in favor of licentious grace.
I love being in my Father's will as do so many. There are also many areas of my walk with Jesus C¨hrist where I prove to be weak, but I know His grace is fresh every morning as is written in the Old testament (the Torah.) Therefore, wretched sinner that I am, I rely on His grace while I obey in my mind, heart and soul, knowing the work He has begun in me, HE will complete on His great and glorious Day. Until then, it is an honor to do all within the ability given me to do as the Father tells us.........note, the ability is a gift from above, not something I may conjure up.
Therefore I consider anyone who balks at the declaration to obey God as one who believes in a licentious form of grace and not grace with thanksgiving. There is no other manner to understand these ravings.
When a grace only individual protests to the declaration that we should obey God for our new nature has converted us from children of disobedience to children of obedience, it cannot be said that this is not equivalent to teaching disobedience in favor of licentious grace.
I love being in my Father's will as do so many. There are also many areas of my walk with Jesus C¨hrist where I prove to be weak, but I know His grace is fresh every morning as is written in the Old testament (the Torah.) Therefore, wretched sinner that I am, I rely on His grace while I obey in my mind, heart and soul, knowing the work He has begun in me, HE will complete on His great and glorious Day. Until then, it is an honor to do all within the ability given me to do as the Father tells us.........note, the ability is a gift from above, not something I may conjure up.
Therefore I consider anyone who balks at the declaration to obey God as one who believes in a licentious form of grace and not grace with thanksgiving. There is no other manner to understand these ravings.
You and a few others teach that some of Jesus' words don't apply to new covenant believers (e.g., Matthew 6:14-15, Mark 11:25-26). I can with great confidence say that only satan tries to take away from what Jesus said. I challenge any one to dispute this. If you don't, and you do lay charges of wrong doing against those who do expose this satanic doctrine, then you are guilty of the same sin.
I will raise them up a Prophet [Christ] from among their brethren, like unto thee [Moses], and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will take vengeance on him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19
Who says that we aren't to obey God?..I don't understand what you are saying...give me an example..perhaps maybe I can get where you think people are saying to go sin all you want now because of the grace of God ( I have never seen anyone actually say this but I have seen it posted as if it's a real fact and all grace believers do it )
Amen..Phil. 1:6 is a great scripture
Philippians 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Amen..Phil. 1:6 is a great scripture
Philippians 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
To say the Gospel of Jesus Christ has one message for the Hebrews and an altogether distinct message for the Gentiles who have been brought to be with the original Flock shows an enormous void of understanding or apostasy, for we all know the same gospel that was given to Abraham, long before the law was given, is the same by which we are all saved.
To say there is a different truth for one people from our Father, and another truth for another group of peoples is sadly in erro.
To say there is a different truth for one people from our Father, and another truth for another group of peoples is sadly in erro.
You're like a broken record repeating over and over the same false-grace talking point. We agree that good works are not the root. Christ and his work alone are the root. Our good works are what establish our faith that we may have confidence against the day of judgment.
Dear friends, I urge [you] as foreigners and temporary residents to abstain from fleshly desires which wage war against your soul, maintaining your good conduct among the Gentiles, so that in [the things] in which they slander you as evildoers, by seeing your good deeds they may glorify God on the day of visitation. 1 Peter 2:11-12
Here is a good teaching about the words of our Lord and it is scripturally based ..however it may conflict with some of our religious teachings but if people think it's satanic...well..that's up to them..
The accusation that grace believers don't believe in the words of Jesus is a myth.
Hyper-grace preachers say the words of Jesus are not for us. They have no authority and are irrelevant to the modern church.”
One of the strangest claims made against hyper-grace preachers is that we are dismissive of the pre-cross teachings of Jesus. In point of fact, hyper-grace preachers are the only ones taking Jesus seriously. When Jesus is preaching law, we say that’s authentic law, not to be taken lightly. And when Jesus is revealing grace, we bow in awestruck gratitude. We would not dare re-interpret his words with qualifiers and caveats.
In contrast, those who preach a mixed-grace message dismiss the hard words of Jesus as hyperbole and exaggeration. “Jesus didn’t mean what he said about chopping off limbs or being perfect.” Like the Pharisees of old, they pick and choose those commands which are to be followed while disregarding others as metaphorical, unreal, and not to be taken seriously.
To be fair, the misperception that hyper-grace preachers reject the teachings of Jesus is based on a kernel of truth, which is this: Everything Jesus said is good, but not everything Jesus said is good for you. Or to put it another way, Jesus spoke words the whole world needs to hear, but you are not the whole world.
What you hear in the words of Jesus reflects what is in your heart. If you are standing on your own righteousness you will hear law like you’ve never heard it before. “You have heard it said … but I say unto you …”
Jesus preached tough, merciless law that leaves no margin for error. “Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matt. 5:48). The message is clear. Either you must be perfect or you must be represented by One who is.
However, if you already know that you are not perfect, you need to hear Jesus’ words of grace. You need to hear him speak about his Father who loves you, cares for you, and offers you his righteousness (Matt. 6:33).
A mixed-grace preacher reads the words of Jesus selectively but a hyper-grace preacher values everything Jesus says. He recognizes that Jesus is the perfect Physician who always prescribes the perfect medicine. He gives law to the smug and grace to the needy. No matter who you are or where you are on your journey, Jesus has life-saving words for you.
Here is the link for anyone interested in seeing what is being said...it'll bless you and you'll fall deeper in love with the Lord when you see how awesome His grace and love is for us..
Search Results words Jesus – Escape to Reality
The accusation that grace believers don't believe in the words of Jesus is a myth.
Hyper-grace preachers say the words of Jesus are not for us. They have no authority and are irrelevant to the modern church.”
One of the strangest claims made against hyper-grace preachers is that we are dismissive of the pre-cross teachings of Jesus. In point of fact, hyper-grace preachers are the only ones taking Jesus seriously. When Jesus is preaching law, we say that’s authentic law, not to be taken lightly. And when Jesus is revealing grace, we bow in awestruck gratitude. We would not dare re-interpret his words with qualifiers and caveats.
In contrast, those who preach a mixed-grace message dismiss the hard words of Jesus as hyperbole and exaggeration. “Jesus didn’t mean what he said about chopping off limbs or being perfect.” Like the Pharisees of old, they pick and choose those commands which are to be followed while disregarding others as metaphorical, unreal, and not to be taken seriously.
To be fair, the misperception that hyper-grace preachers reject the teachings of Jesus is based on a kernel of truth, which is this: Everything Jesus said is good, but not everything Jesus said is good for you. Or to put it another way, Jesus spoke words the whole world needs to hear, but you are not the whole world.
What you hear in the words of Jesus reflects what is in your heart. If you are standing on your own righteousness you will hear law like you’ve never heard it before. “You have heard it said … but I say unto you …”
Jesus preached tough, merciless law that leaves no margin for error. “Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matt. 5:48). The message is clear. Either you must be perfect or you must be represented by One who is.
However, if you already know that you are not perfect, you need to hear Jesus’ words of grace. You need to hear him speak about his Father who loves you, cares for you, and offers you his righteousness (Matt. 6:33).
A mixed-grace preacher reads the words of Jesus selectively but a hyper-grace preacher values everything Jesus says. He recognizes that Jesus is the perfect Physician who always prescribes the perfect medicine. He gives law to the smug and grace to the needy. No matter who you are or where you are on your journey, Jesus has life-saving words for you.
Here is the link for anyone interested in seeing what is being said...it'll bless you and you'll fall deeper in love with the Lord when you see how awesome His grace and love is for us..
Search Results words Jesus – Escape to Reality
This is a great exhortation from Peter to walk out outwardly who you already are now in Christ - in your inner man of the new creation....great scripture!..we all agree what the fruit of a believer looks like as they mature in the Lord.....as we grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ. Thank God for this blessing.
1 Peter 2:11-12 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.
1 Peter 2:11-12 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.
.
This is just sophistry.
This is just sophistry.
Here is a good teaching about the words of our Lord and it is scripturally based ..however it may conflict with some of our religious teachings but if people think it's satanic...well..that's up to them..
The accusation that grace believers don't believe in the words of Jesus is a myth.
Hyper-grace preachers say the words of Jesus are not for us. They have no authority and are irrelevant to the modern church.”
One of the strangest claims made against hyper-grace preachers is that we are dismissive of the pre-cross teachings of Jesus. In point of fact, hyper-grace preachers are the only ones taking Jesus seriously. When Jesus is preaching law, we say that’s authentic law, not to be taken lightly. And when Jesus is revealing grace, we bow in awestruck gratitude. We would not dare re-interpret his words with qualifiers and caveats.
In contrast, those who preach a mixed-grace message dismiss the hard words of Jesus as hyperbole and exaggeration. “Jesus didn’t mean what he said about chopping off limbs or being perfect.” Like the Pharisees of old, they pick and choose those commands which are to be followed while disregarding others as metaphorical, unreal, and not to be taken seriously.
To be fair, the misperception that hyper-grace preachers reject the teachings of Jesus is based on a kernel of truth, which is this: Everything Jesus said is good, but not everything Jesus said is good for you. Or to put it another way, Jesus spoke words the whole world needs to hear, but you are not the whole world.
What you hear in the words of Jesus reflects what is in your heart. If you are standing on your own righteousness you will hear law like you’ve never heard it before. “You have heard it said … but I say unto you …”
Jesus preached tough, merciless law that leaves no margin for error. “Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matt. 5:48). The message is clear. Either you must be perfect or you must be represented by One who is.
However, if you already know that you are not perfect, you need to hear Jesus’ words of grace. You need to hear him speak about his Father who loves you, cares for you, and offers you his righteousness (Matt. 6:33).
A mixed-grace preacher reads the words of Jesus selectively but a hyper-grace preacher values everything Jesus says. He recognizes that Jesus is the perfect Physician who always prescribes the perfect medicine. He gives law to the smug and grace to the needy. No matter who you are or where you are on your journey, Jesus has life-saving words for you.
Here is the link for anyone interested in seeing what is being said...it'll bless you and you'll fall deeper in love with the Lord when you see how awesome His grace and love is for us..
Search Results words Jesus – Escape to Reality
The accusation that grace believers don't believe in the words of Jesus is a myth.
Hyper-grace preachers say the words of Jesus are not for us. They have no authority and are irrelevant to the modern church.”
One of the strangest claims made against hyper-grace preachers is that we are dismissive of the pre-cross teachings of Jesus. In point of fact, hyper-grace preachers are the only ones taking Jesus seriously. When Jesus is preaching law, we say that’s authentic law, not to be taken lightly. And when Jesus is revealing grace, we bow in awestruck gratitude. We would not dare re-interpret his words with qualifiers and caveats.
In contrast, those who preach a mixed-grace message dismiss the hard words of Jesus as hyperbole and exaggeration. “Jesus didn’t mean what he said about chopping off limbs or being perfect.” Like the Pharisees of old, they pick and choose those commands which are to be followed while disregarding others as metaphorical, unreal, and not to be taken seriously.
To be fair, the misperception that hyper-grace preachers reject the teachings of Jesus is based on a kernel of truth, which is this: Everything Jesus said is good, but not everything Jesus said is good for you. Or to put it another way, Jesus spoke words the whole world needs to hear, but you are not the whole world.
What you hear in the words of Jesus reflects what is in your heart. If you are standing on your own righteousness you will hear law like you’ve never heard it before. “You have heard it said … but I say unto you …”
Jesus preached tough, merciless law that leaves no margin for error. “Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matt. 5:48). The message is clear. Either you must be perfect or you must be represented by One who is.
However, if you already know that you are not perfect, you need to hear Jesus’ words of grace. You need to hear him speak about his Father who loves you, cares for you, and offers you his righteousness (Matt. 6:33).
A mixed-grace preacher reads the words of Jesus selectively but a hyper-grace preacher values everything Jesus says. He recognizes that Jesus is the perfect Physician who always prescribes the perfect medicine. He gives law to the smug and grace to the needy. No matter who you are or where you are on your journey, Jesus has life-saving words for you.
Here is the link for anyone interested in seeing what is being said...it'll bless you and you'll fall deeper in love with the Lord when you see how awesome His grace and love is for us..
Search Results words Jesus – Escape to Reality
There is a difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant...things have changed...that's why they call it "new"....it may conflict with our religious tradition and what we were taught in church but as you can see it's hardly statanic..it actually glorifies Jesus more and shows His love and grace in full demonstration.
Did Jesus Put Price tags on Forgiveness?
The gospel that Jesus revealed declares that God loves you like a father, he holds nothing against you, and he longs for his sons and daughters to come home. It’s the good news an orphaned world desperately needs to hear.
So why did Jesus say this:
For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Matt 6:14-15)
This sounds like bad news, as though you must earn God’s forgiveness through works of forgiveness. How are we to read these words? I’m going to give you three interpretations, and then you can choose.
1. Jesus is preaching law
As many grace preachers have said (including me in this post), Jesus was preaching law to those who lived under law.
Jesus was the greatest law preacher of all time. He preached law so the self-righteous would see their desperate need for grace.
The old law-keeping covenant has gone but the self-righteous who remain need to hear the harsh words of Jesus. The truth is you cannot earn God’s forgiveness. The measure of forgiveness we need is infinitely greater than any forgiveness we could show to others.
Did Jesus put price tags on forgiveness? In this passage, he does! But on the cross he paid that price on our behalf. The very condition for forgiveness that Jesus preached on the Mount, he fulfilled on the cross. Only in Christ do we receive the Father’s forgiveness.
2. Jesus is describing the fruit of grace
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. (1 John 4:20)
Taylor Swift sang “Haters gonna hate,” but the lyrics are from John. Haters gonna hate because hate is in their heart. The fruit reveal the tree. But if you have been apprehended by the love of your heavenly Father you won’t be a hater anymore. You’ll be a lover and a forgiver.
Paul wrote, “Forgive as the Lord forgave you” (Col 3:13) and that’s the proper order. God acts, we respond. But if we don’t respond it’s as if God never acted. Do you see the connection? If we don’t believe God has forgiven us then Christ died for nothing. That’s what Jesus is saying here:
In prayer there is a connection between what God does and what you do. You can’t get forgiveness from God, for instance, without also forgiving others. If you refuse to do your part, you cut yourself off from God’s part. (Matt 6:14-15, MSG)
Unforgiveness is a form of bondage. It’s a grace killer. If you are unable to release forgiveness to others, you’ll have trouble experiencing the forgiveness that God has given to you.
It’s not that God will become unloving and travel back through time and stop Jesus from carrying your sins on the cross. God never changes! But if you don’t respond to what he has done, it’s as if he’d never done it. Grace without faith is worthless.
In the parable of the unforgiving servant, Jesus tells the story of a king who forgives an indebted servant (Matt 18:23-35). But the servant is unchanged by the king’s grace. By choosing to remain graceless and unforgiving the servant reveals his contempt for the gift and the giver. He does not, “Forgive as the Lord forgave you.” Instead he scorns grace and ends up miserable.
And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses. (Mark 11:25-26)
Again, there are two ways to read this: (1) as a law the self-righteous must obey if they are to keep up their charade, or (2) as an exhortation to walk in the grace of a Father who has already forgiven you in Christ.
“Paul, how can you say God has forgiven you when Jesus says he may forgive you?” Because I’ve seen the cross! To forgive is to send your sins away and Jesus did that already. He will never do it again and you cannot undo what he has done (Heb 9:26). Because of Jesus God is no longer counting your sins against you (2 Cor 5:19).
The issue is not “what can I get God to do?” but “what God has done and what can I now do because of what he has done.”
Has someone hurt you? Are you the victim of an unforgiveable crime? By the grace of God you can be free from that wound! Don’t hold onto the sins of others like the unforgiving servant. You’ll be miserable. The flow of grace will be poisoned by the bitter root. Let go of sin and take hold of grace. Be better, not bitter. See the cross. See what Jesus did for you them forgive them in Jesus’ Name and be free!
3. It’s both, for Jesus speaks to all of us at our point of need
What you look through determines what you see. If you are trusting in your own performance, you will read Jesus’ words as law. “I must work to earn God’s forgiveness.” You cannot succeed! When life hurts you this law will condemn you as a law-breaker in need of grace, and the sooner that happens the better.
However, if you are trusting in Christ’s righteousness, you will read his words as an exhortation to walk in grace. You want more grace? Then give from the abundant supply he has given to you. Let no bitter root grow that causes you to fall short of grace (Heb 12:15).
Jesus spoke words the whole world needs to hear. The genius of Jesus was that he could speak to crowds of people and meet everyone – the self-righteous and the hungry – at their point of need.
It’s a mistake to dismiss the words of Jesus as irrelevant or old covenant or pre-cross. If it’s in the Bible it’s useful for training in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16). The words of Jesus either reveal the self-righteousness that leads to death or the Christ-righteousness that causes you to reign in life!
The followers of Jesus still know that he has the words of eternal life!
Here is the website...the comments at the bottom are great as people ask questions...you'll be blessed as you learn how great is our salvation in our Lord.
Did Jesus Put Price tags on Forgiveness? (Matthew 6:14-15) – Escape to Reality
Did Jesus Put Price tags on Forgiveness?
The gospel that Jesus revealed declares that God loves you like a father, he holds nothing against you, and he longs for his sons and daughters to come home. It’s the good news an orphaned world desperately needs to hear.
So why did Jesus say this:
For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Matt 6:14-15)
This sounds like bad news, as though you must earn God’s forgiveness through works of forgiveness. How are we to read these words? I’m going to give you three interpretations, and then you can choose.
1. Jesus is preaching law
As many grace preachers have said (including me in this post), Jesus was preaching law to those who lived under law.
Jesus was the greatest law preacher of all time. He preached law so the self-righteous would see their desperate need for grace.
The old law-keeping covenant has gone but the self-righteous who remain need to hear the harsh words of Jesus. The truth is you cannot earn God’s forgiveness. The measure of forgiveness we need is infinitely greater than any forgiveness we could show to others.
Did Jesus put price tags on forgiveness? In this passage, he does! But on the cross he paid that price on our behalf. The very condition for forgiveness that Jesus preached on the Mount, he fulfilled on the cross. Only in Christ do we receive the Father’s forgiveness.
2. Jesus is describing the fruit of grace
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. (1 John 4:20)
Taylor Swift sang “Haters gonna hate,” but the lyrics are from John. Haters gonna hate because hate is in their heart. The fruit reveal the tree. But if you have been apprehended by the love of your heavenly Father you won’t be a hater anymore. You’ll be a lover and a forgiver.
Paul wrote, “Forgive as the Lord forgave you” (Col 3:13) and that’s the proper order. God acts, we respond. But if we don’t respond it’s as if God never acted. Do you see the connection? If we don’t believe God has forgiven us then Christ died for nothing. That’s what Jesus is saying here:
In prayer there is a connection between what God does and what you do. You can’t get forgiveness from God, for instance, without also forgiving others. If you refuse to do your part, you cut yourself off from God’s part. (Matt 6:14-15, MSG)
Unforgiveness is a form of bondage. It’s a grace killer. If you are unable to release forgiveness to others, you’ll have trouble experiencing the forgiveness that God has given to you.
It’s not that God will become unloving and travel back through time and stop Jesus from carrying your sins on the cross. God never changes! But if you don’t respond to what he has done, it’s as if he’d never done it. Grace without faith is worthless.
In the parable of the unforgiving servant, Jesus tells the story of a king who forgives an indebted servant (Matt 18:23-35). But the servant is unchanged by the king’s grace. By choosing to remain graceless and unforgiving the servant reveals his contempt for the gift and the giver. He does not, “Forgive as the Lord forgave you.” Instead he scorns grace and ends up miserable.
And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses. (Mark 11:25-26)
Again, there are two ways to read this: (1) as a law the self-righteous must obey if they are to keep up their charade, or (2) as an exhortation to walk in the grace of a Father who has already forgiven you in Christ.
“Paul, how can you say God has forgiven you when Jesus says he may forgive you?” Because I’ve seen the cross! To forgive is to send your sins away and Jesus did that already. He will never do it again and you cannot undo what he has done (Heb 9:26). Because of Jesus God is no longer counting your sins against you (2 Cor 5:19).
The issue is not “what can I get God to do?” but “what God has done and what can I now do because of what he has done.”
Has someone hurt you? Are you the victim of an unforgiveable crime? By the grace of God you can be free from that wound! Don’t hold onto the sins of others like the unforgiving servant. You’ll be miserable. The flow of grace will be poisoned by the bitter root. Let go of sin and take hold of grace. Be better, not bitter. See the cross. See what Jesus did for you them forgive them in Jesus’ Name and be free!
3. It’s both, for Jesus speaks to all of us at our point of need
What you look through determines what you see. If you are trusting in your own performance, you will read Jesus’ words as law. “I must work to earn God’s forgiveness.” You cannot succeed! When life hurts you this law will condemn you as a law-breaker in need of grace, and the sooner that happens the better.
However, if you are trusting in Christ’s righteousness, you will read his words as an exhortation to walk in grace. You want more grace? Then give from the abundant supply he has given to you. Let no bitter root grow that causes you to fall short of grace (Heb 12:15).
Jesus spoke words the whole world needs to hear. The genius of Jesus was that he could speak to crowds of people and meet everyone – the self-righteous and the hungry – at their point of need.
It’s a mistake to dismiss the words of Jesus as irrelevant or old covenant or pre-cross. If it’s in the Bible it’s useful for training in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16). The words of Jesus either reveal the self-righteousness that leads to death or the Christ-righteousness that causes you to reign in life!
The followers of Jesus still know that he has the words of eternal life!
Here is the website...the comments at the bottom are great as people ask questions...you'll be blessed as you learn how great is our salvation in our Lord.
Did Jesus Put Price tags on Forgiveness? (Matthew 6:14-15) – Escape to Reality
False-grace teaching automatically creates ill will and controversy by its very nature because it is an us-them theology that has baked into it the disparagement and marginalization of everyone who disagrees with it. It is a strawman theology that defines itself by labeling and then rejecting the other side of its false dichotomy, i.e., pharisees, DIYers, works-based salvationists, religious hypocrites, legalists, rule keepers, etc., etc., etc.
- Status