Tongue? Ick. We would see it in the fridge before my mom prepared it. I think she boiled it. And then it was meat salad only. Now, the meat salad was tasty, but we always knew it was tongue. Ick!
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C
coby
Guest
Eeeeww one pastor I had had a sermon about the tongue and he took such a filthy thing with him to church.
Paul said by revelation from Jesus Christ - I would that you all spake with tongues (KJV) - I would like every one of you to speak in tongues (NIV) - Now I want you all to speak in tongues (ESV). Everyone ignores the first part of 14:5 and attach more emphasis on the second half of the scripture - "but rather that you prophesied: for greater is he that prophesies than he that speaks with tongues, EXCEPT he interpret" - the second half has to do with "in the church" since the speaking in tongues is to be interpreted. We can't do away with the first half of the verse and say that Jesus never said we needed tongues to pray - He exhorts us through revelation to Paul to speak in tongues . . . .
"its more about people being familiar with scripture" . . . . 14:22-25 scripture says - "those that are unlearned or unbelievers"
I can't for the life of me see where "things do not add up" in the scripture concerning speaking in tongues . . . . 3 whole chapters in 1 Cor. devoted only to the spiritual matters and the manifestation of the Spirit - and how they should be conducted in the church and how they edify the believer . . .
It doesn't fit some folks paradigm... I grew up in the Church of Christ, being taught that tongues ceased when the last apostle died..
Having read the letter Paul wrote, it seems pretty obvious that speaking in unknown, or possibly ecstatic/angelic tongues existed at LEAST in his lifetime. Why would it be listed as one of the gifts of the Spirit, if it didn't still exist?
I'm still open to learn, but it seems pretty obvious to me... my paradigm has shifted somewhat, since my early years in the church. I like to call it "growth"...
We must keep these chapters of Corinthians in context. Paul was dealing with a church that was in disarray. Paul wanted to encourage them but had to correct them because they were not conducting themselves appropriately.
Paul is saying that it's great that you all want to speak in tongues but it is better for all involved if you teach and preach the word of God regarding Jesus as the Messiah.
Historically Corinth was a cross roads city and many folks there prided themselves in speaking multiple languages. Tongues were very seductive to the people in this culture.
Now let's turn our attention to the issue at hand. Paul is teaching languages not ecstatic utterances. Paul is cajoling them about angelic languages as none were ever evidenced. We err when we imply that the groaning that the Holy Spirit does for us when we cannot speak our feelings are not tongues. They are groanings not languages.
Many are led astray over tongues because they have not been properly taught all of the truth about these scriptures. We cannot allow our emotions to run ahead of our knowledge.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
J
jaybird88
Guest
speak in tongues to each other, for unbelievers, to the Lord. its unclear who he is talking about.
it has to do with all the other post i been making on the subject showing why they dont add up.
and one question i cant get an answer to, whats the purpose of the angel language tongues?
all the other gifts have a purpose, prophesy - see future, tongues - speak to other nations, healing - heal people.
but the angel language makes no sense. its not going to help an unbeliever as they wouldnt understand being as they are an unbeliever, they are not needed for divine revelations, Jesus and the great prophets didnt need them for this. the only one that benefits from them is the one that uses them which would make them a personal prayer language. and this conflicts with what Jesus and paul both taught.
So, how many languages do you think Paul spoke? You are presuming he was multi-lingual?
I think MOST scholars conclude that Paul is talking about non-human languages, when he says he speaks in tongues more than any of the others.
You are correct when you say that he was downplaying that spiritual gift... he says that very plainly. Prophesy was MUCH more desirable...
It's true the church was in some disarray, he spoke to all of those issues, basically telling them to stop the foolishness.. but with tongues, he did not say to stop, but to "regulate" the use of them, so that their assemblies would not be chaotic.
Look at the last thing he says about it, at the end of that chapter....
I THINK THAT YOUR POINT IS NOT IN CONTEXT TO THE CHAPTERS OF 1 COR 12, 13, AND 14. most who study these important chaPTER do so from what they have been taught from those who are for tongues or from those who are against it today. The context of chapter 12, 13 and 14 start with 1. Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant
It is clear paul is going to teach about the Gifts of the Holy Spirit ALL the gifts .
2. the gift cannot be used until one is in a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ
1cor 12:3
"Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost."
This is the defining statement which leads into the operation of the " Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
the very next verse says :4 NOW there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
3. This continues through the remaining chapter of 12 The listing of all the gifts and the importances of them in the body of Christ nowhere in this chapter is it even mentioned any of the gifts are not to be used.
the very last verse of chapter 12 sayes? :31 " But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."
What does this mean? chapter 13 tells us what the greater gift is :1 " If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
Love is the greatest gift !! Love is the glue which all the Gifts are used in . If any gift including tongues , prophecy, discerning of spirits, word of knowledge, healing, word of wisdom, divers kinds of tongues. All of these gifts are for the whole body and all are required to be used in and operated by LOVE And chapter 13 also speaks about Maturity think about it God is trusting you with a gift. Who has not abused all of the gifts? or what examples of hurt people do you know that have suffered by the using of the Gifts wrongly? The list is Long Preaching teaching they are gifts abused daily. Yet these gifts are still in operation today and MORE people have been hurt by a Preacher /teacher then any thing that God has given to the church as a gift.
This is where chapter 14 leads into Correctly using the gifts in Love and maturity and with Good discipline. No where does he say that the gift are done away with the context tells the church to
Edify with gifts :26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
Order when gifts are being used :28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
Don't say amen if it is not biblical correct :29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
maturity and self-control with the gift :30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
If Tongues is the least of the gift that are not to be stopped How much more should all the other be used?
:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
ln the very last verse of chapter 14 says :40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
The "all" in context to the above and the previously stated in chapter 12, 13, and in 14.
Be saved, Be loving, Be mature, Be used, be a blessing to all I hope you all are blessed by God and used in the way HE want to use you The Gift are HIS and HE the Spirit of God distributes them as HE sees fit.
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Paul likely spoke Hebrews, Latin and Greek. He was far better educated than most of the people.
I'm puzzled as to how one can conclude that Paul was inferring something other than human languages??
The tongues at Pentecost were heard in human languages by those present.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The context of Acts is very clear and the context of 1cor 12, 13, 14 are also clear
I support the biblical account as the authorial intent meant it to be. Acts 1:8 and then manifested in Acts 2: 1-38 was a miracle and a birth of the church. Tongues was used as a sign as it is stated in 1 cor 14:22 the also mocked tongues that day too. you can read that in Acts 2:13 " Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine."
they did not understand what was happening .
This was somewhat the case in the Corinthian church as we read 1cor 12, 13, 14. This is why Paul addressed the misuse of the gifts. as far as supporting human languages can you tell me how many languages were spoken on the " Day of Pentecost" in acts 2? Some slipt hairs saying they spoke and the hearing of those was the miracle like it was transformed into languages they( the hears) understood . All I know is the bible says they spoke acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
and they ( the hearers) heard acts 2:6 " [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language."[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] I am not going to try an explain to you this wonderful working of God however, it is clear in the Scriptural text and in the context of tongues they spoke and they heard. and the Gifted used was that of tongues unknown. I do not need to explain how God did it I just believe God did it, as the bible states. [/FONT]
Good question,
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] knowledge, it shall vanish away.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] many will use this one verse in the whole chapter to dismiss the gifts of the Holy Spirit but it is clear in the context of all the chapter of 12, 13, and 14 this has not happened . it is as we know in Biblical interpretation descriptive and not a normative.
Has knowledge vanished away? Of as we are told in james of any man lacks wisdom Let him ask of God. " [/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]prophecies, they shall fail" what Prophecy of God you know that fails ? This again is in context of Love as we read on I would agree that the gift of tongues has ceased IF this was the last verse or the last statement by Paul in this letter it was not.
I am not here to convince anyone what the bible says if those believe it is not for today so be it . That is is why paul said in 1cor 14:38 it is not our Job to force the gift down ones throat. We cannot give a gift it is only the Spirit of God .[/FONT]
Good grief.... see my post #127
Does that really matter? The end result is the same, is it not. How many hairs are you willing to split to try to reach your conclusion?
Reminds me of a past president... "well it depends on what the definition of 'is' is....."
This is simply saying that love will outlast everything else...
READ it.... in context... the whole chapter.
Ahh so you are just speculating. I see. This is why it is so difficult to pin down those who claim to speak in tongues. You take great liberty to make tongues into anything you desire and they can change with circumstance.
Biblically no one has made a persuasive argument for tongues in the modern church. The biblical evidence is entirely weighted against them. It is very likely that they do not resemble the tongues of Acts 2 and we have no idea what they really were in Corinth. We do know that they are a sign gift to witness to Israel. We do know that the love of God in the crucified Savior and the preaching of the gospel are far superior yet many covet tongues.
The modern church a mile wide and not even an inch deep. Theologically speaking.
Those who seek biblical alignment with the conduct of the modern church are not to be mistaken as mockers. I do not question to create doubt but to reveal the truth.
I still await a definitive answer as to whether tongues are human languages or ecstatic utterances? And biblical support for either contention.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I cannot speak about other religious affiliations, if they are not biblically sound they are not. The tongues spoken in 1cor chapter 12, 13, and 14 is the gift of languages both of men and of God as it states. What I think it is you are wanting is to show that any tongues that is not a human language is not from God correct ? or do you think it is? The point of tongues which I do not want o go over again as I have back a few threads ago shows that it can be both it really depends on the Holy Spirit on what HE wants to do in the yielding vessel.