Paster Women?

[kaylagrl]

You got up during the sermon to speak?

We had the service, my father was an evangelist. When I felt led,I would speak in our services.

 

[kaylagrl]

Speaking of gut wrenching pain, you are so mighty impressed with yourself, aren't you? What you keep doing to people on this thread isn't discernment, it's self-righteous gossip. Haven't you caused enough pain yet? If you were sincere, you'd reach out instead of "discerning" to anyone ready for some good juicy gossip.... errr I mean "discernment."

I don't know Elizabeth yet, but I saw what you did to NU earlier. You caused doubt, specifically because you thought it would make you look important. A hell of a thing to do to a fellow believer. And now you do it again. If this is the best way to win your argument, silence might very well be the better alternative for you.

And, sadly, I know this opens the door to others to free them up to talk about Elizabeth now.

By any chance, were you the women who was shouting it to the rooftop on here last year that I was mentally unbalanced because I admit I have aphasia and on drugs? (BTW, I do have aphasia and I am on drugs, but the two aren't connected, and none of it is connected to mentally unbalanced.) This does feel familiar. I could be wrong, but you do feel familiar.

Well, at least I'm really asking you, instead of gossiping about you to others and pretending I discern.

​ I usually agree with Elizabeth but we seem to see differently on this subject. But don't worry about her,she is more than capable of handling herself. She's a strong person and doesn't need us to defend her. Disagreeing from time to time doesn't mean we dislike a person,or it shouldn't.

 

[Ariel82]

I love Elizabeth's honesty. She tells you exactly what she thinks. Whether we agree or not, I can respect that.

This thread is a train wreck and it makes me really sad.

We do whatever God calls us to do. I know women pastors and they help the congregation with whatever needs to be done. They aren't the whole church but they help guide it according to how the Holy Spirit leads them and other members.

Condemning whole congregation and denominations based on allowing women to be pastors is misguided and wrong, but that doesn't make you ...any of those bad things posted earlier that I don't care to repeat.

We disagree on this point. Does this draw the dividing line between who is and who isn't,a child of God?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I love Elizabeth's honesty. She tells you exactly what she thinks. Whether we agree or not, I can respect that.

This thread is a train wreck and it makes me really sad.

We do whatever God calls us to do. I know women pastors and they help the congregation with whatever needs to be done. They aren't the whole church but they help guide it according to how the Holy Spirit leads them and other members.

Condemning whole congregation and denominations based on allowing women to be pastors is misguided and wrong, but that doesn't make you ...any of those bad things posted earlier that I don't care to repeat.

We disagree on this point. Does this draw the dividing line between who is and who isn't,a child of God?

No it doesn't. It is our FRUIT we are told to look fortoknow if they belong to us.

 

[JosephsDreams]

Cashew! For the record.

Cashews are actually legumes. You'll have to pick something else.

 

[Depleted]

There is a difference between something causing "stupidity" and calling someone "stupid"..Calling some one "stupidity" is your own making - not mine.....it's the "thing" that causes stupidity...not the people themselves....there is a difference..

Stupid is stupid....foolish and ignorance would be another good word for it...it's like reading the Old Covenant where it says to stone your child if he/she is disobedient. We live in the New Covenant of grace now so it would be stupid and foolish and ignorant of the truth to revert back to the Old Covenant.

If we don't read the scriptures in it's historical and social environment we come up with all kinds of scripturally ignorant religious practices which makes us ignorant and foolish. But everyone is allowed to have their own opinion. ..just make sure women never put their hair up as Peter talks about or the earth might open up and swallow them for their dis-obedience.....Just kidding.....they will not really be swallowed up...

I do work toward understanding history and setting. (No scholar, so I count on scholars to enlighten me.) I'm not so sure stoning disobedient kids isn't a good thing. I know of a family whose disobedient kids raped their 18-month-old cousin, who, later on in life, raped his siblings when they and he were still kids, who now have all kinds issues because of the family's past history.

The family's past history wasn't just the cousins. It included parents, aunts, uncles, and went back generationally. (The same 18-month old toddler was later raped by his father at 14. His brother was raped by their mother for decades -- from the time he was in 8th grade until the day she died and he was in his late 40's - early 50's.) Somewhere in that family someone should have been stoned to death to avoid what it caused so many others to become victims of and perpetrators of.

BUT God, in his infinite wisdom, put his wound vac on the family history. That 18-mo-old grew up. So did his siblings. (Five siblings, and only one was spared the incest. He was spared because of another family curse -- a birth defect that first caused him physical problems when he was in third grade. We suspect that is caused by the generations and generations of incest causing babies to be born within the same family. By the time he was in fifth grade, he was in a wheelchair. He died from the same thing at 21. Had he not had a fever that unmasked the defect, he would have died of a brain aneurism about that same age. The defect was a weakened blood vessel in a specific spot in his brain. The fever caused it to be visible on the outside. Two of his cousins keeled over dead of that same weakened vessel when they were roughly 20.)

The man that 18-mo-old toddler became was saved. He then brought his brothers to the Lord shortly afterward, (and the stepfather who raped him at 14, who died a month later), and in the case of the brother dying, just two weeks before he died.

In God's infinite wisdom, the generational curse has been removed from that line in the family. Even though the sisters refused salvation, they did see how their brothers became good men, and found good husbands so it wouldn't continue. BUT, one sister had serious problems bathing her own son because she feared washing all parts of her son, so it wouldn't unleash the inner demon she feared she had.

And their cousins? In that part of the family, I suspect the generational curse continues.

Just like those nations God told Israel to wipe out, but they didn't. God wasn't wrong in asking for them to be wiped out. In small ways, he has worked it out that all who truly did deserve that original judgement had a different outcome. Some for their good. Most for their bad.

We don't stone today because countries have deemed it barbaric. Those same countries didn't deem abuse to family barbaric until the end of the last century.

God is the same God of the OT. He didn't change. He simply found someone trustworthy to be on the other side of that covenant -- Jesus. God himself. The ineffectualness in the OT wasn't God's law. They are perfect and stand the test of time. It was who he had the covenant with -- people.

The laws done away with were the dietary laws. Mostly because they weren't needed anymore. The rest of the law shows who God is. Follow them and you follow God perfectly. BUT no one follows them, because we aren't perfect. But one followed them perfectly right down to the last jot and tiddle. He was God, and nailed our law breaking to that cross with him. That too was in that law to do so. The Law is God. Lex Rex. The salvation because we break that Law is Jesus. Know the Law and you know who Jesus is to get who is pulling us ever closer to the Father.

I'm NOT a dispensationalist either.

So try seeing simply because someone disagrees with you, what they *think* isn't necessarily stupidity either.

And tell me, now that I clarified, had I told you what you think is stupid, would you really believe I don't think you're stupid as much as what you think? Because what we think does define the word "stupid," so there is no difference between what we think and who we are.

 

[JosephsDreams]

There are many times, many times, the hard question goes unanswered. I repeated this one three times, amidst people condemning of a woman leading a congregation, which I happen to agree with, on Biblical grounds, that a man should pastor. On the other hand, I cannot see it spiritual this church should be shutdown, and the question was avoided, by people who can, otherwise, wrail all day against women. I'm surely here less than you, but I have seen repeated instances where hard questions are wholly avoided, as well as clear scripture to the contrary unanswered. I can't count the times a precise post has been answered with non-sequiturs that avoid the issue, mine and others, people who make all sorts of claims who can't defend their claims. Finally, one person here said the pulpit of that church should be empty, then. I don't find that a good answer, when people have been growing spiritually and have been saved, with no man to fill in the gap. The guy tells me it all comes down to corn cobs. Neither is that so satisfying. I was seeking an answer, clearly from somebody not on my side of this, as a matter of fact, so I don't see where my question had anything to do with my sympathies for this church, which remain, and expecting anybody to agree with me. Simply, the question was completely avoided. Also, the Pharisees were great at letter-of-the-law pontification, often oblivious to righteous judgment.

If a capable man can not step in the pastor, the woman should be allowed to continue to pastor the church. I am of course assuming that the church, be it run by man or woman, is a church that Jesus would approve. If not, then it should close or turn around, be it run by woman or man.

 

[Depleted]

We had the service, my father was an evangelist. When I felt led,I would speak in our services.

Service -- the time christians gather together, pray together, sing worship songs, have announcements, maybe have a testimony or two, a prophetic utterance, etc. and then comes the sermon. (Probably followed by another song, or more worshipping, but generally speaking the sermon is the climax of the service.)

Sermon -- when the trained theologian gives God's message authoritatively to the group.

So, now that I've clarified, (and, oops, I mean women should be quiet in the sermon, not the whole service, so I really did goof there often enough to know that's me, not my aphasia), do you get up and speak during the sermon?

Because to me, the silent part should be the sermon, not the entire service. (And I think the only person who shouldn't be silent is the theologian giving the sermon, so silence is required of men too.)

 

[Ariel82]

I don't see in the Bible that only men should give sermons. Evangelist give sermons all the time and they are both men and women.

 

[Depleted]

​ I usually agree with Elizabeth but we seem to see differently on this subject. But don't worry about her,she is more than capable of handling herself. She's a strong person and doesn't need us to defend her. Disagreeing from time to time doesn't mean we dislike a person,or it shouldn't.

I'm not defending her. I'm telling Stunning to quit gossiping about people and pretending it's discernment. She's already done enough damage. I don't want her to feel free to keep doing it.

Exactly the kind of thing I want men to do, even on here, when I speak of the men stepping up to resume their roles. And I can do that woman to woman. Had this been a man doing this kind of thing, I'd probably call back a man I already saw on this thread doing his job as a man to deal with a man.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

He works best in our weakness it seems.

Yes!
It works the same way as blessed are the poor.
We don't read the verse and say, okay I have to figure out how to make myself poor so God will bless me.
The blessing of God is to SEE that we are poor in spirit.
Same working here.
If we admit to our weakness instead of bulling our way through everything (as Auntie did with her husband), we are in a spot to see the strength of God brought to bear on a situation.
We are already weak. It is the SEEING of it that makes us strong.
God has made everything to show His glory, even bears.
Does a mother bear come running to bring all of her might on a situation because her baby is strong?
No, she unleashes her power and her might because her cub is weak and has cried out.
We could say the cub is strong when he is weak.

 

[Ariel82]

Has anyone clearly defined what the Biblical role of deacon and bishop is? In "responses for dummies" terms ( 2 paragraphs or less)

 

[Elizabeth619]

Your motives are sincere, of the heart, with love.
Sometimes we miss someone else's true intent, even though they aren't really hiding it, because love always hopes.
She has stated the truth a few times in different places and different threads.
She is not really angry and upset at you.
She is angry and upset at God.
She has a hard time accepting some things in the OT and it has her angry and upset.
She's dealt with a lot of anguish of late with her husband's medical condition.
She clearly states here plainly she gave up last autumn.
It does start looking like she's not even trying to be rational and the reason is her motive is anger and frustration and is coming from the place of gutwrenching pain and howling sorrow. Her fist is against the whole world right now and her protest has some validity but she won't get anywhere even though it does. Because whatever is not done out of love won't fix it ever.

Is the "she" in your post on reference to me? If so then what in the world are you talking about? Things in the OT has me upset? My husbands medical condition? I've never been married and everyone here knows that! Angry at God? Since when?

 

[Depleted]

Cashews are actually legumes. You'll have to pick something else.

Ack! I'd go with peanuts, but then they're legumes also. Any such thing as a real nut (other than me?)

 

[kaylagrl]

I'm not defending her. I'm telling Stunning to quit gossiping about people and pretending it's discernment. She's already done enough damage. I don't want her to feel free to keep doing it.

Exactly the kind of thing I want men to do, even on here, when I speak of the men stepping up to resume their roles. And I can do that woman to woman. Had this been a man doing this kind of thing, I'd probably call back a man I already saw on this thread doing his job as a man to deal with a man.

Too many pages to keep up on every post. I think I'll leave this issue between the two of you. I have no dog in the fight so I'll stay out of it.

 

[Elizabeth619]

I'm not defending her. I'm telling Stunning to quit gossiping about people and pretending it's discernment. She's already done enough damage. I don't want her to feel free to keep doing it.

Exactly the kind of thing I want men to do, even on here, when I speak of the men stepping up to resume their roles. And I can do that woman to woman. Had this been a man doing this kind of thing, I'd probably call back a man I already saw on this thread doing his job as a man to deal with a man.

Gossiping? Lol. She flat out made stuff up about me. Im actually don't recall seeing the woman's name on this site til
last night.

 

[kaylagrl]

Service -- the time christians gather together, pray together, sing worship songs, have announcements, maybe have a testimony or two, a prophetic utterance, etc. and then comes the sermon. (Probably followed by another song, or more worshipping, but generally speaking the sermon is the climax of the service.)

Sermon -- when the trained theologian gives God's message authoritatively to the group.

So, now that I've clarified, (and, oops, I mean women should be quiet in the sermon, not the whole service, so I really did goof there often enough to know that's me, not my aphasia), do you get up and speak during the sermon?

Because to me, the silent part should be the sermon, not the entire service. (And I think the only person who shouldn't be silent is the theologian giving the sermon, so silence is required of men too.)

Well this would be a different set up of a service. We would come to a church and take the entire service. We would sing,my father would speak. So it wouldn't be your typical service. The pastor
would step aside and let us have the service. During those times I felt led to speak I would.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

If a capable man can not step in the pastor, the woman should be allowed to continue to pastor the church. I am of course assuming that the church, be it run by man or woman, is a church that Jesus would approve. If not, then it should close or turn around, be it run by woman or man.

Good morning Jd!
Do not be drawn into this without firmly holding in your mind the difference between A church and THE church. One day God will say to THE church, come out of her, My people.

We who are THE church have been told how to spot those who are our brothers and sisters. It works very well. We look for good fruit. What are the fruits of the Spirit in us?

 

[Depleted]

I don't see in the Bible that only men should give sermons. Evangelist give sermons all the time and they are both men and women.

Again, this thread is about pastors -- not prophets, not evangelists, not teachers, not worship leaders, (and I actually don't see anything at all in the Bible about worship leaders. Doesn't mean they don't exist, because I see nothing about raspberries and I know they exist), not the people who watch the young during service, ushers, deacons, etc.

Maybe the thread is a train wreck because people keep going off onto other duties in the church that can be done by men or women and continue to poke on things like silent women and pants.

I suspect this thread would only be 4-5 pages long had we stuck to the topic.

 

[kaylagrl]

Again, this thread is about pastors -- not prophets, not evangelists, not teachers, not worship leaders, (and I actually don't see anything at all in the Bible about worship leaders. Doesn't mean they don't exist, because I see nothing about raspberries and I know they exist), not the people who watch the young during service, ushers, deacons, etc.

Maybe the thread is a train wreck because people keep going off onto other duties in the church that can be done by men or women and continue to poke on things like silent women and pants.

I suspect this thread would only be 4-5 pages long had we stuck to the topic.

Now when have we ever stuck to a topic??