CONFESSING YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS PLEASES GOD

[Stunnedbygrace]

Grace777, you said something - think it was in this thread - about the Holy Spirit being like...a downpayment or a portion of our inheritance. Don't remember your exact words.

So, when I experience His Presence in me, it is too fleeting. I sit there saying, no,no please don't go, come back. And I've thought before that I just want Him because of the joy He fills me with and that I am not desiring Him just because of who He is. That I'm selfish.

But...how could there NOT be dissatisfaction when He goes from my awareness? There's something more for me, not just this downpayment or portion. There's more! How could I not desire that?? This joy I had never had before...is only a PORTION. I can't even imagine the WHOLE inheritance...my mind just kind of goes blank on that.

 

[Grace777x70]

Grace777, you said something - think it was in this thread - about the Holy Spirit being like...a downpayment or a portion of our inheritance. Don't remember your exact words.

So, when I experience His Presence in me, it is too fleeting. I sit there saying, no,no please don't go, come back. And I've thought before that I just want Him because of the joy He fills me with and that I am not desiring Him just because of who He is. That I'm selfish.

But...how could there NOT be dissatisfaction when He goes from my awareness? There's something more for me, not just this downpayment or portion. There's more! How could I not desire that?? This joy I had never had before...is only a PORTION. I can't even imagine the WHOLE inheritance...my mind just kind of goes blank on that.

Yes..I agree. Of course we live by faith even if we have never "felt" Him but He does manifest Himself in a tangible way sometimes. I have had a few encounters with the Lord like that and I can't move. I just sit there and weep. It is a very heavy, full of love and acceptance presence. One moment like that with Him and we are changed forever!

Like you, I can't imagine Him in His full presence...no wonder people in the bible fell down when they were confronted with His presence. The flesh can only handle so much.

 

[Budman]

Will you ever listen to a gift offered to you in video? The very questions you keep asking and the very arguments you have about righteousness and grace are addressed in the video here. Almost word for word.
AAARRRRGGGGGG JUST LISTEN!! The time you spend typing rebuttals you can actually hear what is being said without interruptions. You too Peter.

He won't watch the video, or any video that challenges his world-view. He's so steeped in legalism, he no longer feels the yoke around his neck, or the chains that bind him.

He's much too proud and self-righteous to listen the truth.

He's one who insists people must keep the Law to remain saved - a toxic mixture of Law and grace - a judaizer. He can hoot and holler that he isn't a Law keeping legalist, but he has stated one must abstain from sin in order to remain saved. The bible says sin is a violation of the LAW, (1 John 3:4) so HeRose is indeed saying to remain saved, we must keep the Law.

He's done little but place himself under a curse:

" All who rely on observing the Law are under a curse, for it is written; 'cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the book of the Law.' Clearly, no one is justified before God by the Law, because the righteous will live by FAITH." (Galatians 3:10-11)

We are literally conversing with a man cursed by God. One who refuses to acknowledge his error, despite being proven wrong countless times. When someone starts to beat him in debate, he quickly puts that person on ignore - claiming rudeness or malice.

One thing we need to do is not answer his posts for at least five minuets. I've seen (as I'm sure others have) his penchant for going back and editing his posts if someone really nails him regarding something he said. If we wait, he won't have the opportunity to change his posts.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

He won't watch the video, or any video that challenges his world-view. He's so steeped in legalism, he no longer feels the yoke around his neck, or the chains that bind him.

He's much too proud and self-righteous to listen the truth.

He's one who insists people must keep the Law to remain saved - a toxic mixture of Law and grace - a judaizer. He can hoot and holler that he isn't a Law keeping legalist, but he has stated one must abstain from sin in order to remain saved. The bible says sin is a violation of the LAW, (1 John 3:4) so HeRose is indeed saying to remain saved, we must keep the Law.

He's done little but place himself under a curse:

" All who rely on observing the Law are under a curse, for it is written; 'cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the book of the Law.' Clearly, no one is justified before God by the Law, because the righteous will live by FAITH." (Galatians 3:10-11)

We are literally conversing with a man cursed by God. One who refuses to acknowledge his error, despite being proven wrong countless times. When someone starts to beat him in debate, he quickly puts that person on ignore - claiming rudeness or malice.

One thing we need to do is not answer his posts for at least five minuets. I've seen (as I'm sure others have) his penchant for going back and editing his posts if someone really nails him regarding something he said. If we wait, he won't have the opportunity to change his posts.

You're such a false accuser and a liar. You couldn't accurately state what I believe to save your life. And I like my posts to be precise and perfect; so if I don't have the wording just right and clear I'll change it so that false accusers like yourself can't make me an offender for a word (which they love to do).

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

This is heartbreaking. Why doesn't this break your hearts...?
If you're not saying it in love and care for each other, why say it?
Without love, nothing is accomplished, so why say it then?

 

[mpaper345]

In the Old Testament they did not have the power to keep the moral laws of God perfectly,because they could not have the Spirit like we can in the New,so God had them do physical ordinances that they did have the power to keep,to be right with God during that time.

In the New Testament we have the power to keep the moral laws of God by the Spirit,and love people perfectly,for love is the fulfilling of the law,and God's moral laws have to always be obeyed,which the Bible says herein we know we love God,if we keep His commandments,and they are not grievous.

That is the purpose of having the Spirit,so we can live like Christ to be right with God,for if the man Christ Jesus had to abstain from sin to be right with God,then all people have to do the same.

Paul said we do not void out the law,but we establish it,which we have to fulfill the law.

Paul said the law is holy,good,and spiritual,which is the moral laws,and since it is spiritual,the moral laws have to be obeyed.

Paul said if he did not abstain from sin,and keep under his body,he would be a castaway,and God said if we do not abstain from sin,we will be cut off.

The Bible says do not be deceived he who sins is of the devil.

The Bible says a Spirit led life will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.

When the Bible says those that are led of the Spirit are not under the law,it means all their sins are forgiven,and they are abstaining from sin because they are led of the Spirit,therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution,but they still have to obey the law.

The truth is everybody has to live up to the law,the moral laws,laws of love,like the man Christ Jesus,and that is why Paul said we do not void out the law,but we establish the law.

We are not under the law as long as we allow the Spirit to lead us,which we can abstain from sin,but if we sin we are back under the law until we repent of it,and allow the Spirit to lead us again,then we are not under the law.

So for people that have an attitude that it is alright to sin once in a while for we are only human,every time you do it,or there is a sin not given up,you are under the law.

Which I am not saying that I am perfect,and do not mess up myself,but the purpose of the Spirit is to cause us to act like the man Christ Jesus,so we can be right with God.

 

[Budman]

You're such a false accuser and a liar. You couldn't accurately state what I believe to save your life. And I like my posts to be precise and perfect; so if I don't have the wording just right and clear I'll change it so that false accusers like yourself can't make me an offender for a word (which they love to do).

Hardly. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed you changing a post, and it wasn't to be "more precise" - it was because someone backed you into a corner.

So then, put your money where your mouth is:

Does God count our sins against us or not?

Does God justify us, or do we?

Does one have to stop sinning to retain salvation?

Must we do good works to maintain salvation?

State "clearly" so that you can't claim someone is twisting your words - that is, if you bother to answer the questions at all.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Hardly. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed you changing a post, and it wasn't to be "more precise" - it was because someone backed you into a corner.

This is what distinguishes a bald-faced liar from someone who simply states a falsehood out of ignorance or error. You are a bald-faced liar because I have never changed a post to accommodate someone's response to it, yet here you are libeling me on a public forum about something you have no absolutely no knowledge about.

 

[Budman]

This is what distinguishes a bald-faced liar from someone who simply states a falsehood out of ignorance or error. You are a bald-faced liar because I have never changed a post to accommodate someone's response to it, yet here you are libeling me on a public forum about something you have no absolutely no knowledge about.

Answer the questions.

 

[phil112]

..............................
1.Does God count our sins against us or not?

2.Does God justify us, or do we?

3.Does one have to stop sinning to retain salvation?

4.Must we do good works to maintain salvation?

State "clearly" so that you can't claim someone is twisting your words - that is, if you bother to answer the questions at all.

1. Why would Christ have to die on the cross if our sins didn't count against us?

2. Can God justify us if we don't get saved?

3. If one is a continual sinner does one have salvation?

4. If one never does good works does one have salvation?

 

[Budman]

This is what distinguishes a bald-faced liar from someone who simply states a falsehood out of ignorance or error. You are a bald-faced liar because I have never changed a post to accommodate someone's response to it, yet here you are libeling me on a public forum about something you have no absolutely no knowledge about.

I actually pointed it out when I first noticing you doing it. It was on the now closed "obedience and righteousness - extreme grace version" thread. Post # 768.

You ignored it when I pointed it out.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I actually pointed it out when I first noticing you doing it. It was on the now closed "obedience and righteousness - extreme grace version" thread. Post # 768.

You ignored it when I pointed it out.

You are defaming me. Quit it.

 

[Chuckt]

I'll just stick with the scriptures that say that the old man died on the cross with Jesus and that we were raised in newness of life with Him...and to "reckon - take into account..factor it in as being true ..reckon is an accounting term " that we are dead to sin.

Except that dead doesn't mean dead in the Bible. I learned this from studying annihilationism. Death is separation from God.

 

[phil112]

1.Does God count our sins against us or not?

2.Does God justify us, or do we?

3.Does one have to stop sinning to retain salvation?

4.Must we do good works to maintain salvation?

State "clearly" so that you can't claim someone is twisting your words - that is, if you bother to answer the questions at all.

1. Why would Christ have to die on the cross if our sins didn't count against us?

2. Can God justify us if we don't get saved?

3. If one is a continual sinner does one have salvation?

4. If one never does good works does one have salvation?

Kind of wish you hadn't ignored my response, altho you didn't ask for it.
And you also didn't say the answer couldn't be a question.
So, I'll ask you to answer my response.

 

[Complete_In_Him]

Until believers are given a new body, they have both Christ's and Adam's natures. False-grace believers are taught to only acknowledge the existence of Christ's nature, and deny that Adam's nature even exists anymore. This is essentially their view of grace, i.e., that grace is an entirely new nature without sin to worry about, thus there is no condemnation.

The way they accomplish this mind trick is through a dissociative process that considers the flesh and the body to be separate and distinct. In other words, mental separation is made between the flesh and the body, which allows for the belief that the flesh is evil and the body is sinless. The flesh, then, simply becomes an idea that is compartmentalized in the mind and discarded (ignored, denied) because it is the old man (Adam) that was crucified and no longer exists. This process of denying the existence of sinful flesh and identifying only with the incorruptible spirit and sinless body is what false-grace believers call the renewing of the mind.

I don't think you understand what you are saying about the flesh or the body or two natures. That first paragraph is not true to my beliefs, at all, and I am a grace believer, bible believer, saved person, etc. And, I want to ask, what is a "false-grace believer"???

HeRose,

Tell me about the nature of the whole spirit, soul and body of the Son of man?

Tell me what the scripture means when it says "God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh"

How is it that we can sin against our own body?

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

 

[Budman]

You are defaming me. Quit it.

Pointing out your hypocrisy is hardly "defaming" you.

Now, how about answering those questions I posed?

 

[Budman]

Kind of wish you hadn't ignored my response, altho you didn't ask for it.
And you also didn't say the answer couldn't be a question.
So, I'll ask you to answer my response.

I'm trying to get HeRose to answer them so he can state his position once and for all.

He keeps accusing people of twisting his words and whatnot, so I'm giving him a chance to set the record straight.

But so far - no go.

 

[Complete_In_Him]

This view that grace is a new nature is why false-grace believers hold that they shall be completely saved, not by means of their behavior, but because they are spiritual by nature. To them it is impossible that their spiritual nature (i.e., themselves) should ever be corrupted by sin, regardless of whatever sin they might practice. They all affirm that they can never in any way lose their spiritual nature, in spite of whatever sinful actions in which they may be involved.

The mind behind conveying this quote above, is corrupt.

I doubt one person on this board views "that grace is a new nature", grace is the doctrine(s) of God's goodness, "Gospel of the grace of God", "saved by grace", "dispensation of grace", "grace freely given", "gift of grace", etc.

Are you so offended for your work, your doctrine, your beliefs, the truth you have made for yourself, that you are willing to pervert everything, God's word, yourself, others? You are out of control and need to recover yourself from this behavior, it's poison all the way around.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The mind behind conveying this quote above, is corrupt.

I doubt one person on this board views "that grace is a new nature", grace is the doctrine(s) of God's goodness, "Gospel of the grace of God", "saved by grace", "dispensation of grace", "grace freely given", "gift of grace", etc.

At least one false-grace believer here says that grace is Jesus, and that his new nature is his union with Christ. So your doubt is unfounded.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I don't think you understand what you are saying about the flesh or the body or two natures. That first paragraph is not true to my beliefs, at all, and I am a grace believer, bible believer, saved person, etc. And, I want to ask, what is a "false-grace believer"???

False-grace believers take different forms. Some follow Free Grace teachings, some follow the hyper grace variant. I have no idea what flavor you follow. It seems to be pretty strange.