Well, that's all I have to offer. I pray you find out the truth for yourself and set you free from social anxiety. God bless!
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Well you certainly shouldn't trust me, then you'll doubt. Trust in anyone leads to doubt, why? I haven't figured that out yet, well thats what God tells me. But instead of trust go with faith, it deals with uncertainty better than trust.
S
Shpadoinkle
Guest
You didn't read my post right. I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I am a Christian. I still don't believe that guarantees me a place in Heaven. I think a LOT of Christians are going to Hell when the Judgment comes. A whole lot. I might be one of them.
C
Complete_In_Him
Guest
Jesus didn't come to show us a way to heaven, he said I am the way. So by your confession of Christ, I'll see you in eternity and the heavens are ginormous, but we will all be connected in heart by love. That being said...
For a time, it might be good, yes. But, I wouldn't suggest remaining restricted from fellowshipping with others in person around the word. And, "doing religion" in a church on Sunday is not what I mean by fellowshipping. I know of small groups of people who watch services online, meet for bible study, meet for mini conferences, etc.
It takes time to get to the point of finding a place within where you are willing to trust. While you are growing in your personal study, keep an eye out, an ear open, try a few things in experiment... if you find something online you enjoy, if it's not to far off or you can afford it, go there for a function or reach out to them let them know you are participating, establish rapport and ask if they know of/might suggest or hold meetings/events close to you? Things aren't always a massive group or crowd or church setting or with children, and eventually it could be a nice quarterly experience or semi-annual at first?
For a time, it might be good, yes. But, I wouldn't suggest remaining restricted from fellowshipping with others in person around the word. And, "doing religion" in a church on Sunday is not what I mean by fellowshipping. I know of small groups of people who watch services online, meet for bible study, meet for mini conferences, etc.
It takes time to get to the point of finding a place within where you are willing to trust. While you are growing in your personal study, keep an eye out, an ear open, try a few things in experiment... if you find something online you enjoy, if it's not to far off or you can afford it, go there for a function or reach out to them let them know you are participating, establish rapport and ask if they know of/might suggest or hold meetings/events close to you? Things aren't always a massive group or crowd or church setting or with children, and eventually it could be a nice quarterly experience or semi-annual at first?
It sounds like you do have some kind of social anxiety and that is what keeps you from Church and being around others. This is something that can be worked through. However, if staying away from people and Church is just cause you don't LIKE being around other people then you should consider what the bible says. And since I believe the Bible is our handbook for life and godliness I've answered your question with the following verse:
"Let us consider how to love and stimulate one another to good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, but encouraging one another all the more as we see the day drawing near."
Sorry I don't have the reference but it's found in one of the Pauline Epistles - maybe someone else here knows it and can post the exact reference.
As for whether accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior will get you into heaven. Consider these passages:
"I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father (heaven) accept through me." John 14:6
"And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life and this life is in His Son, he who has the Son has the life, he who does not have the Son does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God (Jesus Christ) so that you MAY KNOW that you have eternal life." 1 John 5:11-13
These verses are very clear that it takes knowing you have the Son to have eternal life. And for those of us who call themselves Christians that mean accepting the Jesus as the Savior. Because only through Him do we have eternal life.
"For Christ also died for sins, the just (Christ) for the unjust (us) so that He might bring us to God (heaven) having been put to death on the cross, but made alive in the Spirit (His death and resurrection)." 1 Peter 3:18
God's Words are the ultimate truth. Pray that this helps - peace and grace!
"Let us consider how to love and stimulate one another to good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, but encouraging one another all the more as we see the day drawing near."
Sorry I don't have the reference but it's found in one of the Pauline Epistles - maybe someone else here knows it and can post the exact reference.
As for whether accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior will get you into heaven. Consider these passages:
"I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father (heaven) accept through me." John 14:6
"And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life and this life is in His Son, he who has the Son has the life, he who does not have the Son does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God (Jesus Christ) so that you MAY KNOW that you have eternal life." 1 John 5:11-13
These verses are very clear that it takes knowing you have the Son to have eternal life. And for those of us who call themselves Christians that mean accepting the Jesus as the Savior. Because only through Him do we have eternal life.
"For Christ also died for sins, the just (Christ) for the unjust (us) so that He might bring us to God (heaven) having been put to death on the cross, but made alive in the Spirit (His death and resurrection)." 1 Peter 3:18
God's Words are the ultimate truth. Pray that this helps - peace and grace!
S
Shpadoinkle
Guest
I'm mostly indifferent about people themselves. I don't like how I feel when I am around them, so it projects onto them. Profuse sweating and a nervous stomach aren't fun to deal with and it makes trying to do anything social impossible. I really wanted to go to a movie a while back, but knew I'd never be able to tolerate the crowded theater, so I will do my usual which is try to avoid spoilers and rent it when it comes out on DVD.
My views on whether or not I get to go to Heaven are a topic for another thread. This one has already been taken off track enough and I'd like to get back to talking about if online church services are a valid form of worship.
My views on whether or not I get to go to Heaven are a topic for another thread. This one has already been taken off track enough and I'd like to get back to talking about if online church services are a valid form of worship.
Online church could help but it can never replace the real church. The bible tells us to encourage one another because we are weak, forgets easily, and we need help. The real church is the people in it. Without people there is no church. I have social anxiety too and I cant say that I have overcome it completely but facing your fears helps. If you are afraid of heights confront it until it goes away. Just do it and dont worry about the results. The bible says that those who try to save their lives will lose it and those who lose their lives for my sake will find it.
M
Miri
Guest
I can identify to a certain degree.
As a kid I was very shy, so much so that I hardly spoke.
My background was different to everyone else, being mixed race
brought up in a white area and brought up in foster care.
I just hated talking to people as inevitable questions about family
came up, why is your mum white, why do you live with you aunt etc.
But anyway I started off as a kid going to a small church with my aunt
who fostered me. I hated the other kids at first they all seemed to have
perfect lives with an actual mum and dad, plus the shyness got in the way.
Eventually I got to know everyone and found myself enjoying church life
and became a Christian about age 11. I was still very shy around people I
didn't know too well.
As I got older that shyness which looking back was down to being over
self conscious, began to wear off.
Later in life things went pear shaped at my original church and after taking a
couple of years out from church, I decided to go to another.
Problem was that the best evangelical bible believing church in the area,
was massive with a congregation of 500 plus at that time. (Now it's over 1000).
I went anyway but the same old fears returned, I squirmed through the
services for the first few months, then I gradually got to know more
people and started to feel more "at home" in the church.
Then several months later I ended up being on front stage in the worship
team. I squirmed through that for a few months if I am honest and hoped
people would not notice me too much! Not much chance of that if you play
the saxophone
. But ended up loving it so much that I played in the
worship team 10 years. But despite all that I never thought of myself as being
in the middle of everything, not ever wanted to be popular or wanted any
attention. I use to get embarrassed when groupies come up to me (yes
it's possible to have groupies when you are in the worship team unfortunately,
no matter how much you try to discourage it).
Then due to my aunt's ill health and age I had to pull out of the worship team and
have spent the last 3-4 years putting her needs first. At one point I hardly went to
church as there was so much going on at home.
Then I started to realise I didn't want to go to church as the old fears, shyness,
being around lots of unknown people, too many questions etc started to
come to the surface again. So I started to force myself to go to church and again
I squirmed felt uncomfortable etc. But then came to a point where it no longer felt
uncomfortable.
I think for myself there is a natural element, I am not naturally a gregarious person.
Then there is background which changes how a person views the world, I think
also there is a spiritual element in that isolated Christians have little support and
its not good. Satan knows this.
The point of sharing this is to show it is possible to overcome, sometimes we have to
face fears. Yes some people are idiots in church, I know I've had lots of idiotic
comments you wouldn't believe! Like people who I don't know coming up to me and
asking which part of Africa, Egypt, Singapore, China, Italy, Spain I come from. When I
say none of the above they start arguing with me saying I must be!
Or that I look nice even if I don't wear lipstick (how they think wearing lip stick
is compatible with playing the sax - I have no idea). I won't even go there about the
sexist remarks because I play the saxophone - from Christians!
But there has been far more fellowship, real long lasting friendships, real genuine people
that I have got to know within church , more than outside in the secular world.
Maybe you need to face your fears, try a small church or a small house group.
Ask why you are afraid, there is usually an underlying fear of something in there.
Fear of being judged, fear people won't understand, fear of invasion of privacy,
fear of not being good enough etc.
The other thing, we all need people and help at some point in life, at the very minimum
old age proves that.
I also found the following I don't know if it might help.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/social-phobia
Definition
Social phobia, also called Social Anxiety Disorder, is an anxiety disorder characterised by
overwhelming anxiety and excessive self-consciousness in everyday social situations.
People with social phobia have a persistent, intense, and chronic fear of being watched
and judged by others and of being embarrassed or humiliated by their own actions. Their
fear may be so severe that it interferes with work, school, or other activities. While many
people with social phobia recognize that their fear of being around people may be excessive
or unreasonable, they are unable to overcome it. They often worry for days or weeks in advance
of a dreaded situation. In addition, they often experience low self-esteem and depression.
Social phobia can be limited to only one type of situation -- such as a fear of speaking in
formal or informal situations, or eating or drinking in front of others -- or, in its most severe
form, a person experiences symptoms whenever they are around other people. If left untreated,
social phobia can have severe consequences. For example, it may keep people from going to
work or school on some days. Many with this illness are afraid of being with people other than
family members. As a result, they may have a hard time making and keeping friends.
Physical symptoms often accompany the intense anxiety of social phobia and include blushing,
profuse sweating, trembling, and other symptoms of anxiety, including difficulty talking and nausea
or other stomach discomfort. These visible symptoms heighten the fear of disapproval, and the
symptoms themselves can become an additional focus of fear. Fear of symptoms can create a
vicious cycle: as people with social phobia worry about experiencing the symptoms, the greater
their chances of developing the symptoms.
Social phobia often runs in families and may be accompanied by depression or other anxiety
disorders, such as panic disorder and obsessive-compulsive disorder. Some people with social
phobia self medicate themselves with alcohol or other drugs, which can lead to addiction.
Prevalence of Social Phobia
About 3.7% of the U.S. population -- approximately 5.3 million Americans -- is affected by social
phobia. Social phobia occurs in women twice as often as in men, although a higher proportion
of men seek help for this disorder. The disorder typically begins in childhood or early adolescence
and rarely develops after age 25.
As a kid I was very shy, so much so that I hardly spoke.
My background was different to everyone else, being mixed race
brought up in a white area and brought up in foster care.
I just hated talking to people as inevitable questions about family
came up, why is your mum white, why do you live with you aunt etc.
But anyway I started off as a kid going to a small church with my aunt
who fostered me. I hated the other kids at first they all seemed to have
perfect lives with an actual mum and dad, plus the shyness got in the way.
Eventually I got to know everyone and found myself enjoying church life
and became a Christian about age 11. I was still very shy around people I
didn't know too well.
As I got older that shyness which looking back was down to being over
self conscious, began to wear off.
Later in life things went pear shaped at my original church and after taking a
couple of years out from church, I decided to go to another.
Problem was that the best evangelical bible believing church in the area,
was massive with a congregation of 500 plus at that time. (Now it's over 1000).
I went anyway but the same old fears returned, I squirmed through the
services for the first few months, then I gradually got to know more
people and started to feel more "at home" in the church.
Then several months later I ended up being on front stage in the worship
team. I squirmed through that for a few months if I am honest and hoped
people would not notice me too much! Not much chance of that if you play
the saxophone
. But ended up loving it so much that I played in the worship team 10 years. But despite all that I never thought of myself as being
in the middle of everything, not ever wanted to be popular or wanted any
attention. I use to get embarrassed when groupies come up to me (yes
it's possible to have groupies when you are in the worship team unfortunately,
no matter how much you try to discourage it).
Then due to my aunt's ill health and age I had to pull out of the worship team and
have spent the last 3-4 years putting her needs first. At one point I hardly went to
church as there was so much going on at home.
Then I started to realise I didn't want to go to church as the old fears, shyness,
being around lots of unknown people, too many questions etc started to
come to the surface again. So I started to force myself to go to church and again
I squirmed felt uncomfortable etc. But then came to a point where it no longer felt
uncomfortable.
I think for myself there is a natural element, I am not naturally a gregarious person.
Then there is background which changes how a person views the world, I think
also there is a spiritual element in that isolated Christians have little support and
its not good. Satan knows this.
The point of sharing this is to show it is possible to overcome, sometimes we have to
face fears. Yes some people are idiots in church, I know I've had lots of idiotic
comments you wouldn't believe! Like people who I don't know coming up to me and
asking which part of Africa, Egypt, Singapore, China, Italy, Spain I come from. When I
say none of the above they start arguing with me saying I must be!
Or that I look nice even if I don't wear lipstick (how they think wearing lip stick
is compatible with playing the sax - I have no idea). I won't even go there about the
sexist remarks because I play the saxophone - from Christians!
But there has been far more fellowship, real long lasting friendships, real genuine people
that I have got to know within church , more than outside in the secular world.
Maybe you need to face your fears, try a small church or a small house group.
Ask why you are afraid, there is usually an underlying fear of something in there.
Fear of being judged, fear people won't understand, fear of invasion of privacy,
fear of not being good enough etc.
The other thing, we all need people and help at some point in life, at the very minimum
old age proves that.
I also found the following I don't know if it might help.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/social-phobia
Definition
Social phobia, also called Social Anxiety Disorder, is an anxiety disorder characterised by
overwhelming anxiety and excessive self-consciousness in everyday social situations.
People with social phobia have a persistent, intense, and chronic fear of being watched
and judged by others and of being embarrassed or humiliated by their own actions. Their
fear may be so severe that it interferes with work, school, or other activities. While many
people with social phobia recognize that their fear of being around people may be excessive
or unreasonable, they are unable to overcome it. They often worry for days or weeks in advance
of a dreaded situation. In addition, they often experience low self-esteem and depression.
Social phobia can be limited to only one type of situation -- such as a fear of speaking in
formal or informal situations, or eating or drinking in front of others -- or, in its most severe
form, a person experiences symptoms whenever they are around other people. If left untreated,
social phobia can have severe consequences. For example, it may keep people from going to
work or school on some days. Many with this illness are afraid of being with people other than
family members. As a result, they may have a hard time making and keeping friends.
Physical symptoms often accompany the intense anxiety of social phobia and include blushing,
profuse sweating, trembling, and other symptoms of anxiety, including difficulty talking and nausea
or other stomach discomfort. These visible symptoms heighten the fear of disapproval, and the
symptoms themselves can become an additional focus of fear. Fear of symptoms can create a
vicious cycle: as people with social phobia worry about experiencing the symptoms, the greater
their chances of developing the symptoms.
Social phobia often runs in families and may be accompanied by depression or other anxiety
disorders, such as panic disorder and obsessive-compulsive disorder. Some people with social
phobia self medicate themselves with alcohol or other drugs, which can lead to addiction.
Prevalence of Social Phobia
About 3.7% of the U.S. population -- approximately 5.3 million Americans -- is affected by social
phobia. Social phobia occurs in women twice as often as in men, although a higher proportion
of men seek help for this disorder. The disorder typically begins in childhood or early adolescence
and rarely develops after age 25.
Truthfully, then, you are plainly stating that you have NOT accepted Jesus Christ as who and what is going to save you ("your Savior") Your words simply say that you are thinking that acting like someone has told you a "Christian" acts is somehow going to do something.
If you "accept" an airplane as your transportation to a destination, then you honestly DO believe that when the plane lands you will be in the city you intended to visit. And don't try to feed me some silliness about not "really" knowing where the airplane is actually going until you get there. Because not one single person on that plane, including you, is sitting there, wondering for hours, if your selected city is truly the plane's destination.
This is what "accepting" Jesus as your Savior means. You fully believe and trust that He is going to do what He said He will do.... OR you don't believe it.
S
Shpadoinkle
Guest
I seldom argue. I just feel it is stupid to try and discuss something if either party is convinced their position probably isn't true. You clearly do not believe Jesus will save you if you sit there at your computer and type that you don't know if He will.
U
Ultimatum77
Guest
I used to be like that where I thought my works would either save me or damn me even though i had accepted Jesus....I soon found out that my works can't save me and that I needed to truly get saved b/c I was just living like a Christian but had no internal transformation....which is why 7yrs ago I became truly born again.....and now I don't live in fear of if my works are good enough to get to Heaven because Jesus is the key to my salvation and nothing else....
S
Shpadoinkle
Guest
Why is the thread still being derailed? This is a thread to talk about online church services. If others would like to get into some argument about works versus grace, please start your own thread and have at it. I'm done talking about it. Either we talk about online church or I'm out of here. I'm not going to argue religion with anybody. There is a whole BDF for you folks to do that.
S
Shpadoinkle
Guest
So your thing is to try and point out why other people are "wrong"? You've been chasing after me ever since I joined this dump and I'll be perfectly honest when I say I don't like you. I don't like your tone. I don't like the way you talk down to me. I don't like what you pass off as teaching. Please stay out of my threads.
I think most posters here simply feel it is far more important for you to have confidence in Christ than it is for you to find someone who will agree with you that online broadcast listening is your answer.
S
Shpadoinkle
Guest
Different topic = different thread
I'm not the least bit interested in talking to anyone here about my confidence in Christ. I might be new, but I'm not completely stupid. Some of you might like arguing, but I'd rather avoid it altogether.
You are wrong! Christians are not going to hell but those who entertained another spirit will! Christians means little Christ.
Romans 8:16 tells me that I know I am saved because the spirit has testified to me that am HIS. "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,"
Jesus paid the debt in full and he said if you believe :1 corinth 15:1-4
15 Now I would remind you, brothers,[SUP][a][/SUP] of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, [SUP]2 [/SUP]and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, [SUP]4 [/SUP]that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,
Furthermore, since I am saved because it is the Father who has drawn me to him, noone can undo that! My salvation is sealed!
Ephesians 1:13
And in Him you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, having heard and believed the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.
John 10:29
My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father's hand.
What YOU have is a faith problem! We do not walk by sight.
Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.
It will benefit you greatly to focus on the positive ( Phil 4:8) and rejoice in Christ saving YOU because you dont deserve it and none of us do! If you really are saved in which its not my place to judge anyones salvation( Romans 14:4); you need to adjust your focus and not doubt that Christ saved you. Your doubt doesnt come from God but it comes from the enemy who comes to kill,steal, and destroy
You have a heart problem! We all do. That is why we are instructed to :
Romans 12:2
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.
Romans 10:17
Faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of GOD.
If you reply to me I encourage you to provide scripture. Our reasoning of truth is in Gods word and not what we think.God has told us that our hearts are deceitful Jeremiah 17:9 and he also has said Proverbs 21:2
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the LORD weighs the heart.
Blessings to you
S
Shpadoinkle
Guest
No it's not. If you're just going to follow me around this place like a stalker trying to educate me, we aren't going to get along. Maybe that's what you want. Maybe you get off arguing with people. Whatever it is, I want no part of it. I don't care to play that game.
S
Shpadoinkle
Guest
Again, if you want to go down this road, please start a new thread and then feel free to teach to your heart's content. I'm not interested in being enlightened by a stranger. I think you mean well, but I'm simply not interested.