I would exchange the word salvation for justification. Salvation in this context just confuses the issue because salvation encompasses both justification and sanctification.
CONFESSING YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS PLEASES GOD
- Thread starter Grace777x70
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I would exchange the word salvation for justification. Salvation in this context just confuses the issue because salvation encompasses both justification and sanctification.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Salvation is justification.
We are saved, because God declared us righteous, or aquited us (justified) from our sin debt.
sanctification has nothing to do with salvation, other than salvation is the start of being sanctified.
P
psychomom
Guest
ahem... 
the Scriptures speak of God's children in three ways, right?
we have been saved, are being saved, will be saved... is that right?
it's the tension between the now and the not yet.
but, as it says in Jonah and the Psalms, Salvation belongs to the Lord.
and He who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it at the day of Christ Jesus.
we are confident of that very thing
the Scriptures speak of God's children in three ways, right?
we have been saved, are being saved, will be saved... is that right?
it's the tension between the now and the not yet.
but, as it says in Jonah and the Psalms, Salvation belongs to the Lord.
and He who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it at the day of Christ Jesus.
we are confident of that very thing
Last edited:
P
PeacefulWarrior
Guest
"We are justified, declared righteous, at the moment of our salvation. Justification does not make us righteous, but rather pronounces us righteous. Our righteousness comes from placing our faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ. His sacrifice covers our sin, allowing God to see us as perfect and unblemished. Because as believers we are in Christ, God sees Christ's own righteousness when He looks at us. This meets God's demands for perfection; thus, He declares us righteous—He justifies us."
Source: What is justification? What does it mean to be justified?
Source: What is justification? What does it mean to be justified?
To some people "salvation" means just going to heaven which we will go when we die and leave this body. However the word salvation means a lot of different things...."make well"." preservation"..."wholeness" "rescue".
All these terms are used in respect to our quality of life here on the earth too. People can see scriptures about being saved or salvation and only think about losing the free gift by grace through faith of going to heaven. This is not correct as it violates the clear teachings of the bulk of scriptures.
We are saved now as we will ever be as far as going to be with the Lord. it's a free gift based on grace through faith only.
However, we are also being saved here on earth too from this present world and if we walk according to the flesh we will die early in life or lose out on the quality of life that the Lord enjoys ...we need to walk according to the Spirit within so that we can experience life ( salvation ) here on this earth.
Romans 8:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
All these terms are used in respect to our quality of life here on the earth too. People can see scriptures about being saved or salvation and only think about losing the free gift by grace through faith of going to heaven. This is not correct as it violates the clear teachings of the bulk of scriptures.
We are saved now as we will ever be as far as going to be with the Lord. it's a free gift based on grace through faith only.
However, we are also being saved here on earth too from this present world and if we walk according to the flesh we will die early in life or lose out on the quality of life that the Lord enjoys ...we need to walk according to the Spirit within so that we can experience life ( salvation ) here on this earth.
Romans 8:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
P
PeacefulWarrior
Guest
P
psychomom
Guest
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. (Rom 8:29-30)
sounds like salvation to me
T
thepsalmist
Guest
By beholding Jesus as in a mirror - we then see ourselves in Him as we are one...and the Spirit of the Lord transforms us.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
Are being transformed = present passive = passive means that something is being done to you - you are not doing it
As we behold Jesus in our inner man we are being transformed by the Holy Spirit naturally and the old things fall off.
We can behold Christ in the word.
We can behold Christ in our inner man.
We can also behold Christ in creation. Jesus often used things like "Behold the lilies and the birds of the air" to convey truths.
I like the plants way of photosynthesis which all the plant needs to do is look at the sun ( Son ) and it generates the energy needed to grow the plant as water and nutrients add to the sun-light ( Son-Light in us ) ...an analogy.
Amen...God gives grace to the humble ..humility is submitting ourselves onto God ( James 4:6-8 ).....submit here too is passive...God does it as we rely on Him.
Humility is saying I agree with the finished work of Christ and I align myself up to it's truths.
James 4:7 "Submit therefore unto God and resist the devil" = he is trying to get us into unbelief and self-effort but we are to stand against that when we submit to the finished work of Christ.
T
thepsalmist
Guest
Just walk the walk with the Lord Simple ... I like it
Micah 6:8
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God ...
Simple ... I like it Micah 6:8
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God ...
Last edited by a moderator:
P
PeacefulWarrior
Guest
Just walk the walk with the Lord
Micah 6:8
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God ...
This verse is on the back cover of one of my study Bibles called "Daily Walk Bible (NIV)"
I thought about what Jesus said to His followers when I read your post. That they were all clean and only had need of their feet being washed. And I thought of stepping into a mud puddle when I was little and was running around outside. Mom insisted on hosing off my feet. She did not insist on plopping me into a whole tub of water. She saw that I'd only gotten my feet dirty. She made the assessment that the rest of me was clean.
T
thepsalmist
Guest
Walking with Jesus. In the gospels how often is the word perfect used.
Twice. Love your enemy as God does. Be perfect like Him.
Walk blamelessly as to the law, follow Christ and give up wealth and you will be perfect.
And that is it. Yet strangely people feel to follow Christ is about perfection. According to Jesus perfection is loving your enemy, following Christ and not money. It is having love in your heart, and walking in this with others.
How is this legalism, or wrong or evil? It starts with what is in your heart, and as many have said, if love and looking to Christ are there, everything is fine. As your heart changes, as honesty and integrity become right so it shows in how you react and the things you do. What I hear is we should just expect sin, rather than sin is the exception.
Anyone crying for me to understand Christs love or acceptance, is like getting upset that I do not know the Lord.
The only thing that strikes me is you believe I have an unclean heart, and racked with sin and problems, but just deny it.
What stuns me so many times that things look totally gloom and wrong, yet when I trust the Lord it just sorts out.
So I stop worrying and just trust. He always provides, and I work hard doing that which is just before me.
What I have learnt is sin takes us and justifies our hurt and failure, while the Lord brings us love and acceptance, and just letting go, forgiving and walking in humbleness with the Lord sets us free. Once you see what drives the world, it does not matter because the Lord has set us free. How far have you gone trusting the Lord, how much is on the line, has love proved its way in your heart? The Lords love has changed me and all I do, its that simple. I walk in His grave everyday.
Twice. Love your enemy as God does. Be perfect like Him.
Walk blamelessly as to the law, follow Christ and give up wealth and you will be perfect.
And that is it. Yet strangely people feel to follow Christ is about perfection. According to Jesus perfection is loving your enemy, following Christ and not money. It is having love in your heart, and walking in this with others.
How is this legalism, or wrong or evil? It starts with what is in your heart, and as many have said, if love and looking to Christ are there, everything is fine. As your heart changes, as honesty and integrity become right so it shows in how you react and the things you do. What I hear is we should just expect sin, rather than sin is the exception.
Anyone crying for me to understand Christs love or acceptance, is like getting upset that I do not know the Lord.
The only thing that strikes me is you believe I have an unclean heart, and racked with sin and problems, but just deny it.
What stuns me so many times that things look totally gloom and wrong, yet when I trust the Lord it just sorts out.
So I stop worrying and just trust. He always provides, and I work hard doing that which is just before me.
What I have learnt is sin takes us and justifies our hurt and failure, while the Lord brings us love and acceptance, and just letting go, forgiving and walking in humbleness with the Lord sets us free. Once you see what drives the world, it does not matter because the Lord has set us free. How far have you gone trusting the Lord, how much is on the line, has love proved its way in your heart? The Lords love has changed me and all I do, its that simple. I walk in His grave everyday.
As a small point, continually putting up face plants is just being rude.
It assumes you understand what the person is saying and it is just stupid.
Now many have talked about insults, and how bad things have been said. But what these bad things are is the understanding of peoples beliefs. Like if the Lords prayer is not for christians, this is no small point. For thousands of years this has not been understood as true. Everyone of the christian tradition would say this is wrong. It is not because of what we have been taught, it is obvious from the gospels. Many will share the depths and meaning of this prayer and how it touches who they are.
So people saying the Lords prayer is not for believing gentiles, are already preaching a different understanding of Jesus.
Subtly this is then turned into an emotional language of malice, hatred, evil, satan. Now where is the insult.
It is not in me, I am just stating what the gospels simply declare. "How should we pray?"
Dear Father bring understanding and insight to our brothers and sisters so they stop seeing evil in those who simply are listening to your words with open hearts and eyes to walk in your light of love, In Jesus Christs name, Amen.
It assumes you understand what the person is saying and it is just stupid.
Now many have talked about insults, and how bad things have been said. But what these bad things are is the understanding of peoples beliefs. Like if the Lords prayer is not for christians, this is no small point. For thousands of years this has not been understood as true. Everyone of the christian tradition would say this is wrong. It is not because of what we have been taught, it is obvious from the gospels. Many will share the depths and meaning of this prayer and how it touches who they are.
So people saying the Lords prayer is not for believing gentiles, are already preaching a different understanding of Jesus.
Subtly this is then turned into an emotional language of malice, hatred, evil, satan. Now where is the insult.
It is not in me, I am just stating what the gospels simply declare. "How should we pray?"
Dear Father bring understanding and insight to our brothers and sisters so they stop seeing evil in those who simply are listening to your words with open hearts and eyes to walk in your light of love, In Jesus Christs name, Amen.
I missed the post that said the Lords' prayer is not for us. If I had seen that post, I would have disagreed.
In your last paragraph you say what we have been saying in this whole thread...
In your last paragraph you say what we have been saying in this whole thread...
R
roaringkitten
Guest
"That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec." Heb 6:18-20
Our High priest is our security, our hope is an anchor of the soul. Sure and stedfast, as we have been clothed with the garments of salvation, covered with the robe of righteousness:
"I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels." Isa 61:10
Our High priest is our security, our hope is an anchor of the soul. Sure and stedfast, as we have been clothed with the garments of salvation, covered with the robe of righteousness:
"I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels." Isa 61:10
I missed the post that said the Lords' prayer is not for us. If I had seen that post, I would have disagreed.
In your last paragraph you say what we have been saying in this whole thread...
Well then there is no difference between us in reality.
Unfortunately there are people in the "hyper-grace" camp who do say the Lords prayer is not for us.
Grace7x77 is one of them, and was the reason I came to be aware of this position.
A lot of the ideas certain teachers have is they have the secret truth or right perspective and people just react against it because they have been brainwashed into accepting religion instead of revelation from Jesus. Now it is always possible everyone is mad and only the few are sane, but more likely it is the other way around.
To get a perspective on these issues, think about how people fall in love. Strangers get so wrapped up in each other they would literally die to establish and keep what they have, throw over other important loyalties and relationships to establish this new one. Now in reality this is how pair bonding works, but talking to the people the words will sound very sensible, but they are grounded only in how they feel. Over time they get a perspective on where they have gone and how things have worked out.
Equally when people come out with strange insights into things, it is often just an expression of some deep emotional need they have to resolve by making the world different, or a massive conspiracy, or only possible to see by this unusual lens etc.
Now Jesus offers us a similar experience, except he is talking about being free from sin, and having our lives based on love.
This is very powerful stuff, talking about the fundamentals of our experience and life. It is therefore not surprising those who get the wrong perspective desire to change the meanings of simple ideas, straight forward commands, into another reality. It is the biggest red flag they are completely off the point. This is why I continually am amazed at the invention of others, painting into me things that do not exist.
P