Let's talk about god

[JesusLives]

Just wanted you to know that my brother Bill who has passed away many years ago was also an agnostic. He loved our Grandmother though who was a Christian. I never got to meet her because she died about a year or so before I was born, but I know that my brother loved her and that she was his example of what a Christian should be.

None of us will be able to convince you of faith or God existing, but that isn't our job, my job is to show you love and kindness and treat you the way God asks us to treat our fellow men in His command to love the Lord your God will all your heart, soul, mind, strength and your neighbor as yourself.... Holy Spirits job is to convict and convince you. I'm just a seed planter instructed to love you....

 

[B1Davanda]

Your last sentence says you have encounters with God, so I'm confused. In either case, if you are a Christian then you have been born again...have had a change of nature and therefore you have experienced Him.

My apologies, i dont have a good education, i should have worded it better.
What i meant was i can only go by my own encounters, or lack of them, whether they're with God or people. In other words, i havent had what christians say are personal appearances, God being downloaded into them, or meeting them when they are throwing themselves in front of a truck.

So maybe instead of being harsh, as many christians have been,
IM NOT SAYING YOU! BUT MANY HAVE BEEN!
Remember that alot of us are trying to struggle through life discouraged that God seems to choose to meet with others directly but not with us.
I guess it's sin or a hard heart, but i would think its alot easier to believe in God when you've had these wonderful encounters with Him, or experiences that prove deep inside that you know that you know that you know it was Him.

But some of us only have what it says in the Word, and are doing our best to believe it, WITHOUT that supernatural sign or visit that we're aware of.

But the way some people have been treated, reported, banned from sites like this, accused of all sorts of things like being a troll or a pervert or a demon, by supposed christians who just decide they dont want to extend the same grace that they claim to have themselves, leaves a person questioning why we do, or should, believe anything at all. (And yes, i know there are those types, but there are others who dont join these sites to be disrupters, but are accused and treated like they are, anyway)

Perhaps when you have that experiential encounter, you see it differently,
but if you could see the things that go on, the mistreatment, the accusations, the ostracizing, the ganging up or bullying, this from people who supposedly are believers, done to others who also say they are, or are struggling to, it's just appalling to see, when you can read and follow along on many of these sites without even becoming a member, i wonder how many decide to look elsewhere for answers.

THIS THREAD HAS BEEN REALLY GOOD SO FAR, IN MY OPINION, SO PLEASE DONT MISTAKE A GENERAL EVALUATION AS MEANING A PERSONAL JUDGEMENT.
Everyone here so far has been very fair to an admitted agnostic with alot of questions, and i also appreciate the replies that came my way, though i dont know what a theistic agnostic is, so i dont think i am one.

I believe in Jesus, but I'm just going by some of the good promises like John 3:16, but i guess there's other things written like He chooses to save who He wants, and not others, so i guess i have to believe that, too, because the thing made cant argue against the thing that makes it, but it's hard to go thru life believing that, so i just try to block it out to avoid suicide.

Im just pointing this out because the thread says to talk about God, but many people get their views about God from what they encounter from other people, because they arent certain of any personal encounter with God.
Please know Im not doubting anyone elses experience, or denying God's existence in any way. I have to just go by faith, not feelings or healings or experiences inward or outer, that i wish i had but cant lay claim to.

 

[Magenta]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to bikerchaz again.

 

[Miri]

To the OP,

There is no point debating different religions with you at this point if you
do not fully believe that God exists at all.

My question to you is why don't you believe God exists full stop.

It sounds like you are wanting proof God exists, but it's not like
seeing a car painted red going by and suddenly believing red cars exist.

Its more like believing in the wind, you can't see it, but you can see the
effects of it.

You can't see gravity, but without it life on planet earth would not exist.

You can't see morality, but every human ever born has a sense of right
and wrong. If God did not exist where did we get our morality from.

Every people group on the planet down the ages has had a sense of God's
existance, who put that into them?

Who invented marriage? People didn't they would prefer not to get married at all.

Who invented the world wide notion across all nations of an after life heaven
and hell. If we are just another type of animal then why have all civilisations held
the notion of an after life.

Who set the planets in such an exact alignment that the moon completely covers the
sun during an eclipse. Not too near not too far, just right.

In fact there are many aspects of our planet that are "just right" astrologers are
busy searching for other planets with this so called Goldilocks effect, but they won't
find one as it was Gods plan for planet earth.


If you truely want to know for yourself if God exists, then you have to seek
God with all your heart, ask Him to reveal Himself to you and He will.

One thing, you can't do it in a half hearted way as God knows your heart and
He knows if you are being serious.

As for me I know with all my being that the God of the bible, who created the heavens
and the earth and who gave Himself through God the son to die on a cross for me, does
exist.

I have experienced His love first hand in a supernatural way, I have had many prayers
supernaturally answered which could not in any way be attributed to coincidence.
I have received physical healing.

He speaks to me in dreams, there has been many times He has urged me to do
something and without knowing why I have obeyed and seen amazing things happen
which in no way could be considered a coincidence.

There have been been far too many incidents to even try to explain it all here to you.
But have a read through the testimony forum, read through other people's experiences
on here.

If you are just wanting a logical debate, then there is no point as it is impossible to
know God unless He reaches out to you spiritually. He will do that if you turn to Him and
really seek Him with all your heart. You see it's a two way thing, the more you seek God,
the more He will seek you. But really it is God all along who puts it in your heart to seek
Him.

How's about that for the challenge of a life time - are you willing to take on the challenge?
We have nothing to prove, if you however want proof then you are going to have to do
the seeking for yourself.

 

[Magenta]

One thing Scripture attests to is that those who seek God must believe He exists. Hebrews 11:6 expresses this coupled with another imperative, for: without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Faith is required, you must believe He exists before you seek Him, and you must seek. This is a bit of a catch 22 for many, for if you do not believe something exists, why go looking for it?

I did not believe in God. I did not know if He really existed or not. I believed there was something, I knew there was something behind everything else, but I did not know what it was. I rejected the idea of this God that religion pushed at people. And yet I was willing to admit that there was something and I was also willing to call this something God even if I also thought that many people who also called this same something God were wrong about what that something was. So essentially I was open to the idea of God existing while rejecting Scripture and religion, and I went on an adventure. Really, that is what it was.

So it is good that you do not outright deny that God exists, and you now stand at the brink of this wonderful adventure where you are seeking Him out. This is the most excellent adventure of your life! You are seeking the underlying meaning and purpose to life itself, for God truly is the raison d'etre, and He does have a purpose for your life.

May I make a suggestion or two? One thing I would suggest is that you keep a journal. You seem to have done quite a bit of intellectual exploring, but what do you believe about God, and where did these beliefs originate, and what do they mean to you, and how do you feel about what you believe? That is the type of thing keeping a journal may help you stay aware of as changes happen while you grow in your understanding.

The second thing I would like to suggest is that you start praying, morning and evening. It does not have to be much or wordy or anything, a simple please God and in the morning before anything else transpires and at the end of the day a thank you God shall suffice.

 

[B1Davanda]

From a post by miri:
~~~~As for me I know with all my being that the God of the bible, who created the heavens and the earth and who gave Himself through God the son to die on a cross for me, does exist.I have experienced His love first hand in a supernatural way, I have had many prayers supernaturally answered which could not in any way be attributed to coincidence.I have received physical healing. He speaks to me in dreams, there has been many times He has urged me to do something and without knowing why I have obeyed and seen amazing things happen which in no way could be considered a coincidence. There have been been far too many incidents to even try to explain it all here to you.But have a read through the testimony forum, read through other people's experiences on here.~~~~

Dear Miri,
That is really wonderful for you, im being honest, thats really a wonderful thing, all those different encounters and verifications, God really loves you and He obviously does these things to prove that.

But can you understand theres some of us, or maybe its just me, idk, but
havent had those things happen.
Ive asked sincerely many times, prayed the sinners prayer a thousand times, been on my face in tears, begging forgiveness over the lifestyle and wasted life i lived......i did alot of drugs in my younger days, drank alot, only quit smoking cigarettes a year ago, bounced from job to job, no education, and now due to health, i cant work and probably never will again because i have no education,
so my life is now being forced to just watch the clock/calendar go by.

Im guessing you're probably a pretty good person, sure, made mistakes, but probably were more of a victim and God rescued you from people mistreating you or just lousy circumstances, so i see why God would love you and reveal Himself in all these wonderful ways to you.

I wish i could make the same claims.
Sometimes after being on my knees or face in tears, i realized i just have to get up and do something else, just feeling empty but glad God didn't strike me dead at least, that's what i deserve.

Maybe i didnt wait long enough, or i just arent serious enough, idk, i THINK
i am, but maybe somethings blocking me, or maybe i havent really done the sackcloth and ashes.....not that i would expect 99% of people to have to do that, most are pretty decent people, but maybe God is wanting me to at least be WILLING to do whatever it takes to try to repent of sin, be genuinely sorry, and wait long enough for Him to say ok, idk. I dont know why He has these encounters with some but not all. I just dont know what, if anything, i can do, to get that.

Any dreams i have, i usually wake up in terror, im glad it doesnt happen near as much as when i was a little kid, but still does once in a while.

I dont get 'feelings' of being loved, i dont really know what thats like. I just have to try to believe it when i read it or if someone says it.

And hope that when He returns, or i die, He'll accept me that He paid for my sins, but like they said in bible study the other night, its ultimately God's call by choosing or election.

When i read the testimonies of others, im happy for them at first, but after a while i have to admit it gets a bit hard to stay upbeat, because i see all these wonderful personal encounters God is having with all these people, but then i think about those of us that feel left out, and then that gets confirmed when some christians treat us or others with an air of superiority, when all were trying to do is get through life without killing ourselves or hurting anyone, and again, its probably alot easier when you have God giving you all these personal experiences to encourage you to keep going.

I dont mean to sound jealous, but i guess if i had to be honest, yeah, theres a little bit of envy going on.
I read testimonies, and sometimes they sound a bit like a kid telling others about all the goodies their parents give them, but the kid their saying it to is trying to be happy for them, but there standing there just wishing inside that they could have a toy or a piece of candy, too.

Funny, but i just now got convicted of being like that, the first kid, sometimes when i was little, not really thinking how that might have hurt some of my friends that maybe didnt have as much as i did growing up.

One more evidence of me not being a very good person.

And i guess what goes around, like karma now im getting
paid back, though not nearly as badly as i deserve, so i guess i have no right to complain, really. Im just saying its harder to believe when you know you're not a very good person, and when you dont have those God encounters like everybody else does.

 

[NayborBear]

"It seems to me that the concept of faith, as some of you explain it, blends believing with knowing, in effect saying « i know because i believe » but that can't be it because knowing and believing are two very different things so if anybody could try to clarify that for me I would appreciate it."

Let's say, for the sake of clarity here, that I was coming over to pay you a visit. Just before I arrived you had inadvertently, stubbed your toe on a table lag, rather badly at that, but no broken bones, or blood letting. I arrive, and you are hobbling around, cussing up a storm about having stubbed yer toe.

Now, I don't know you stubbed yer toe, as I didn't see it. I, on the other hand, don't feel a thing! Yet, I can tell by your language and your hobbling around, that something happened that caused you to behave this way. "Maybe you should make a Dr.'s appointment, and have him check out that arthritis in your toe." I counseled.
"I don't HAVE arthritis in my toe! I stubbed it, on that table leg yonder!", you answer me back.
"I got my car right here, I'll run ya to the E.R. Maybe they can give ya something for that gout." I insisted.
"Why, oh why, do you not believe me, for something I know I feel?!" You stated, glaringly.
"Oh?", I wink at the audience.
Knowing, and believing?......2 separate things?
Faith, would be me, believing that which you say you know happened to you.

Jez an FYI........I still believe it's gout!!

 

[Miri]

From a post by miri:
~~~~As for me I know with all my being that the God of the bible, who created the heavens and the earth and who gave Himself through God the son to die on a cross for me, does exist.I have experienced His love first hand in a supernatural way, I have had many prayers supernaturally answered which could not in any way be attributed to coincidence.I have received physical healing. He speaks to me in dreams, there has been many times He has urged me to do something and without knowing why I have obeyed and seen amazing things happen which in no way could be considered a coincidence. There have been been far too many incidents to even try to explain it all here to you.But have a read through the testimony forum, read through other people's experiences on here.~~~~

Dear Miri,
That is really wonderful for you, im being honest, thats really a wonderful thing, all those different encounters and verifications, God really loves you and He obviously does these things to prove that.

But can you understand theres some of us, or maybe its just me, idk, but
havent had those things happen.
Ive asked sincerely many times, prayed the sinners prayer a thousand times, been on my face in tears, begging forgiveness over the lifestyle and wasted life i lived......i did alot of drugs in my younger days, drank alot, only quit smoking cigarettes a year ago, bounced from job to job, no education, and now due to health, i cant work and probably never will again because i have no education,
so my life is now being forced to just watch the clock/calendar go by.

Im guessing you're probably a pretty good person, sure, made mistakes, but probably were more of a victim and God rescued you from people mistreating you or just lousy circumstances, so i see why God would love you and reveal Himself in all these wonderful ways to you.

I wish i could make the same claims.
Sometimes after being on my knees or face in tears, i realized i just have to get up and do something else, just feeling empty but glad God didn't strike me dead at least, that's what i deserve.

Maybe i didnt wait long enough, or i just arent serious enough, idk, i THINK
i am, but maybe somethings blocking me, or maybe i havent really done the sackcloth and ashes.....not that i would expect 99% of people to have to do that, most are pretty decent people, but maybe God is wanting me to at least be WILLING to do whatever it takes to try to repent of sin, be genuinely sorry, and wait long enough for Him to say ok, idk. I dont know why He has these encounters with some but not all. I just dont know what, if anything, i can do, to get that.

Any dreams i have, i usually wake up in terror, im glad it doesnt happen near as much as when i was a little kid, but still does once in a while.

I dont get 'feelings' of being loved, i dont really know what thats like. I just have to try to believe it when i read it or if someone says it.

And hope that when He returns, or i die, He'll accept me that He paid for my sins, but like they said in bible study the other night, its ultimately God's call by choosing or election.

When i read the testimonies of others, im happy for them at first, but after a while i have to admit it gets a bit hard to stay upbeat, because i see all these wonderful personal encounters God is having with all these people, but then i think about those of us that feel left out, and then that gets confirmed when some christians treat us or others with an air of superiority, when all were trying to do is get through life without killing ourselves or hurting anyone, and again, its probably alot easier when you have God giving you all these personal experiences to encourage you to keep going.

I dont mean to sound jealous, but i guess if i had to be honest, yeah, theres a little bit of envy going on.
I read testimonies, and sometimes they sound a bit like a kid telling others about all the goodies their parents give them, but the kid their saying it to is trying to be happy for them, but there standing there just wishing inside that they could have a toy or a piece of candy, too.

Funny, but i just now got convicted of being like that, the first kid, sometimes when i was little, not really thinking how that might have hurt some of my friends that maybe didnt have as much as i did growing up.

One more evidence of me not being a very good person.

And i guess what goes around, like karma now im getting
paid back, though not nearly as badly as i deserve, so i guess i have no right to complain, really. Im just saying its harder to believe when you know you're not a very good person, and when you dont have those God encounters like everybody else does.

You know what, there has been many times in my life when I thought
God only listened to other people, when I have thought God was just up in the sky
waiting to zap me if I did something wrong. Times when I wondered why God seemed
silent.

Then with time I came to realise all of these assumptions, thoughts, feelings were
not from God! He does love us whether we believe it or not, He does speak to us but
we spend so much time thinking God does not speak that we don't hear. When minds
are full of negative thoughts the gentle whisper of God cannot get through.

You can keep telling yourself God doesn't care, doesn't love me, doesn't listen,
doesn't hear my prayers - which is all false. Or you can start believing what the
bible says and start affirming God's love for you etc. Once you actually start
believing even if it's through gritted teeth and open yourself up to the
possibilities that it's not the bible that is wrong, but that it's your wrong
thinking, then you will start to see things happening.

God can't speak to you at the moment as your side of the two way radio isn't
working properly .

Try this for a month and tell me after that God doesn't speak.

1) Put aside all pre conceived notions out of your mind.

2) Set aside half an hour minimum every day to either read through a favourite
book of the bible or one of the gospels. Or follow a devotional word for the day
type of study.

3) Invite the Holy Spirit to help you understand what you are reading.

4) Write down what the reading teaches you about God the Father, God the son,
God the Holy Spirit and yourself.

5) Write down if there is an example to follow, a truth to be learnt, a promise to
cling to, etc.

6) Pray over what you have learnt and ask that the word will become a reality
in your life.

7) Bring prayer requests to God both big and small and don't forget to make a
note of the answers to prayer, or to thank God.

8) Look forward to these times and be enthuastic expecting to hear and learn.


Incidentally God speaks to each individual where they are at and in a way
which is most suitable for them. So for example, He will speak to creative
people in a creative way. Logical people in a logical way etc. God cares so
much about us that he treats each person as an individual, not just
one of the crowd. If you don't believe me then all you have to do is look
at how Jeses treated the various people He came across. He treated them
all as individuals.

Here is a Psalm you could start off with - read the whole Psalm.



Psalm 34:1-10 NKJV
[1] I will bless the LORD at all times; His praise shall continually be in my mouth.
[2] My soul shall make its boast in the LORD; The humble shall hear of it and be glad
[3] Oh, magnify the LORD with me, And let us exalt His name together.
[4] I sought the LORD, and He heard me, And delivered me from all my fears.
[5] They looked to Him and were radiant, And their faces were not ashamed.
[6] This poor man cried out, and the LORD heard him, And saved him out of
all his troubles.
[7] The angel of the LORD encamps all around those who fear Him, And delivers them.
[8] Oh, taste and see that the LORD is good; Blessed is the man who trusts in Him!
[9] Oh, fear the LORD, you His saints! There is no want to those who fear Him.
[10] The young lions lack and suffer hunger; But those who seek the LORD shall not
lack any good thing.

 

[B1Davanda]

I believe YOU had a toe-stubbing encounter with the table leg.
But until i have one, i cant know, experientially, what it feels like.
So you really helped explain what I go through.
I believe in Jesus, and the bible says these things are written that you may know you have eternal life, so i believe the words written.
But those personal encounters where Jesus is with you and
you see or at least, feel Him, only apply to you.

I believe it happens for you, but not me yet, and im
afraid that as time goes on, i am getting more hard-hearted,
because more and more ppl are having these incredible
encounters, and i may get so bitter that if it ever does happen,
i wont believe it, or i'll say so what.

Thats probably what already happen to me, and i
just dont want to admit its too late.
Its the same way i cant believe any people love me, either.
I thought one did once, but i blew it bigtime,
and i have to live with that regret the rest of my life.
I just didnt have what it took to keep a relationship,
and i lost the only one i ever loved in that way.

Good thing for her, though, im glad i only ruined a half decade of her life,
and not many many years more. She's free of me, and im sure she thanks God
every day to be as far from me as she can get. I understand completely, and i pray i didnt do too much damage and that she is happy and blessed.
Btw, dont go by my profile, i shouldnt have checked married, but it's a long story, and Amy isn't my wife. Not my gf either. It's ok, though, we're fine.

No, i lost the one, and now i have a hard time believing if anyone tried to say they loved me, and including God. It's an experience thing, or lack of it.
I'm sorry, but I'm just being honest. So i believe to a degree, but without the personal encounters, it's hard to believe deep down inside.

Maybe what ive been calling belief is just masking doubt.
I dont know, i havent stubbed my toe in 30 years,
and maybe ive grown too numb to ever feel it again.
I cant really help it, though. Old age and lack of circulation can cause one to go numb.

 

[Miri]

I believe YOU had a toe-stubbing encounter with the table leg.
But until i have one, i cant know, experientially, what it feels like.
So you really helped explain what I go through.
I believe in Jesus, and the bible says these things are written that you may know you have eternal life, so i believe the words written.
But those personal encounters where Jesus is with you and
you see or at least, feel Him, only apply to you.

I believe it happens for you, but not me yet, and im
afraid that as time goes on, i am getting more hard-hearted,
because more and more ppl are having these incredible
encounters, and i may get so bitter that if it ever does happen,
i wont believe it, or i'll say so what.

Thats probably what already happen to me, and i
just dont want to admit its too late.
Its the same way i cant believe any people love me, either.
I thought one did once, but i blew it bigtime,
and i have to live with that regret the rest of my life.
I just didnt have what it took to keep a relationship,
and i lost the only one i ever loved in that way.

Good thing for her, though, im glad i only ruined a half decade of her life,
and not many many years more. She's free of me, and im sure she thanks God
every day to be as far from me as she can get. I understand completely, and i pray i didnt do too much damage and that she is happy and blessed.
Btw, dont go by my profile, i shouldnt have checked married, but it's a long story, and Amy isn't my wife. Not my gf either. It's ok, though, we're fine.

No, i lost the one, and now i have a hard time believing if anyone tried to say they loved me, and including God. It's an experience thing, or lack of it.
I'm sorry, but I'm just being honest. So i believe to a degree, but without the personal encounters, it's hard to believe deep down inside.

Maybe what ive been calling belief is just masking doubt.
I dont know, i havent stubbed my toe in 30 years,
and maybe ive grown too numb to ever feel it again.
I cant really help it, though. Old age and lack of circulation can cause one to go numb.

Sounds like that's your problem. You are trying to keep everything and everybody out
including God. It's never too late though to start opening up.

Its not good to shut down emotionally as it always comes out somewhere maybe in the
form of depression, anger, fear etc. Maybe it's time to start facing those emotions head
on. Reading the bible and asking God for help is a good place to start, you could try
councilling if not face to face, then there are on line courses. Remember it's never too
late and a person is never too old.


Ezekiel 36:26-27 NKJV
[26] I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart
of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. [27] I will put My Spirit within
you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

 

[1ofthem]

I know pride has already been put out there as a reason of unbelief. Sometimes people harden their hearts because they just don’t want to believe in a higher power. I would call it a god complex. They want to believe that we are our own gods. They think we are wise and we are in charge, we do not have to be held accountable to a higher power. They think we live we die and that is all. Why anyone would want to believe this is beyond my comprehension?
I choose to believe in a loving God that cares for me. God is love. He loves everyone and is willing to help, if we will but call upon him in the name of his precious son Jesus Christ. With that being said, he will not force you to call upon him. He gives us all freewill.
I would just like to tell you that he does care for you and if you hear his voice (feel any thought of wanting to know him) harden not your heart because the Spirit and the Bride say come and let him that is athirst come and drink from the water of life freely. He will not turn you away and the price has already been paid by Jesus Christ. It is free to try, but it is ultimately your decision.

 

[B1Davanda]

Hi miri. Sorry, post 89 was in reply to Nayborbear, i didnt know you had posted in between.

Thank you for the advice, but just to be clear, i DO believe in Jesus, its not that im saying He doesnt love me...God so loved the world.

But what Im referring to is more and more i hear of these personal encounters that people are having with God, such as you stated earlier, that had you saying you KNOW God loves you, these were undeniable proofs of His love, not coincidences, and many people seem to be having these episodes, which is great, but it can leave me feeling kind of left out.

Maybe this example.....its like how SOME people talk about speaking in tongues, and can make others feel like lesser christians if they dont.
IM NOT SAYING THATS WHAT YOU'RE DOING REGARDING ENCOUNTERS, SO PLEASE DONT TAKE IT THAT WAY. I know you are trying to be encouraging and show what great things God has done and is doing in your life.
Im just using the example that when these encounters happen for some, it can make some others feel like lesser christians, because it sounds like such a wonderful thing, but it doesnt happen for us.
And thats ok, maybe, like you said, God gives these manifestations to some who He feels are worthy and will respond properly, and maybe He knows Im not or i wont, so He withholds it. Im sure its my fault and not His, and that's fine.
If He died for my sins, thats way more than i deserve anyway, so who am i to complain. Its just, in the context of the thread, and the person wanting to know why to believe, i can see how having a personal encounter can be pretty convicing, but trying to believe without one is really hard, we just have to believe what it says in the bible, and try to keep from applying the bad parts to ourselves.

I will try to do what you said, but i dont know if even reading the word like that
will cause a personal visitation to happen.
Maybe He knows I'd die of a heartattack anyway,
so He's sparing me, lol. God bless you.

 

[Miri]

Hi miri. Sorry, post 89 was in reply to Nayborbear, i didnt know you had posted in between.

Thank you for the advice, but just to be clear, i DO believe in Jesus, its not that im saying He doesnt love me...God so loved the world.

But what Im referring to is more and more i hear of these personal encounters that people are having with God, such as you stated earlier, that had you saying you KNOW God loves you, these were undeniable proofs of His love, not coincidences, and many people seem to be having these episodes, which is great, but it can leave me feeling kind of left out.

Maybe this example.....its like how SOME people talk about speaking in tongues, and can make others feel like lesser christians if they dont.
IM NOT SAYING THATS WHAT YOU'RE DOING REGARDING ENCOUNTERS, SO PLEASE DONT TAKE IT THAT WAY. I know you are trying to be encouraging and show what great things God has done and is doing in your life.
Im just using the example that when these encounters happen for some, it can make some others feel like lesser christians, because it sounds like such a wonderful thing, but it doesnt happen for us.
And thats ok, maybe, like you said, God gives these manifestations to some who He feels are worthy and will respond properly, and maybe He knows Im not or i wont, so He withholds it. Im sure its my fault and not His, and that's fine.
If He died for my sins, thats way more than i deserve anyway, so who am i to complain. Its just, in the context of the thread, and the person wanting to know why to believe, i can see how having a personal encounter can be pretty convicing, but trying to believe without one is really hard, we just have to believe what it says in the bible, and try to keep from applying the bad parts to ourselves.

I will try to do what you said, but i dont know if even reading the word like that
will cause a personal visitation to happen.
Maybe He knows I'd die of a heartattack anyway,
so He's sparing me, lol. God bless you.

Hi. Just to qualify, God speaks to people in many different way.

It might be through the bible, it might be a growing sense and assurance of God's love,
it might be that you get an urge unction to do something then later realise it was God.
It might be through dreams (I know that's a contentious one but I have to include it as
God has spoken to me in many), some people get pictures in their mind (that's happened
only maybe two or three times to me but I know of some people who have these a lot),
sometimes it's through other people - a word here or there and you know it's just for you.


I suppose to summarise, don't limit God and don't be surprised at the many different
ways he speaks to individuals.

One thing I will share to encourage you. Ages ago I had a dream in which a pair of
hands were being held out towards me. In them was a large light blue misshapen
geometric chunk of plastic. As I watched the hands closed around it and began to
squeeze and mould it like you might with playdo or plasticine.

Then the hands opened back up and in them was a massive flawless sparkling
diamond. That is what we are like that shapeless piece of plastic. But in God's
hands we become that priceless treasure of immense value and flawless to boot
as we are washed in the blood of the lamb.

God bless

 

[JesusLives]

My apologies, i dont have a good education, i should have worded it better.
What i meant was i can only go by my own encounters, or lack of them, whether they're with God or people. In other words, i havent had what christians say are personal appearances, God being downloaded into them, or meeting them when they are throwing themselves in front of a truck.

So maybe instead of being harsh, as many christians have been,
IM NOT SAYING YOU! BUT MANY HAVE BEEN!
Remember that alot of us are trying to struggle through life discouraged that God seems to choose to meet with others directly but not with us.
I guess it's sin or a hard heart, but i would think its alot easier to believe in God when you've had these wonderful encounters with Him, or experiences that prove deep inside that you know that you know that you know it was Him.

But some of us only have what it says in the Word, and are doing our best to believe it, WITHOUT that supernatural sign or visit that we're aware of.

But the way some people have been treated, reported, banned from sites like this, accused of all sorts of things like being a troll or a pervert or a demon, by supposed christians who just decide they dont want to extend the same grace that they claim to have themselves, leaves a person questioning why we do, or should, believe anything at all. (And yes, i know there are those types, but there are others who dont join these sites to be disrupters, but are accused and treated like they are, anyway)

Perhaps when you have that experiential encounter, you see it differently,
but if you could see the things that go on, the mistreatment, the accusations, the ostracizing, the ganging up or bullying, this from people who supposedly are believers, done to others who also say they are, or are struggling to, it's just appalling to see, when you can read and follow along on many of these sites without even becoming a member, i wonder how many decide to look elsewhere for answers.

THIS THREAD HAS BEEN REALLY GOOD SO FAR, IN MY OPINION, SO PLEASE DONT MISTAKE A GENERAL EVALUATION AS MEANING A PERSONAL JUDGEMENT.
Everyone here so far has been very fair to an admitted agnostic with alot of questions, and i also appreciate the replies that came my way, though i dont know what a theistic agnostic is, so i dont think i am one.

I believe in Jesus, but I'm just going by some of the good promises like John 3:16, but i guess there's other things written like He chooses to save who He wants, and not others, so i guess i have to believe that, too, because the thing made cant argue against the thing that makes it, but it's hard to go thru life believing that, so i just try to block it out to avoid suicide.

Im just pointing this out because the thread says to talk about God, but many people get their views about God from what they encounter from other people, because they arent certain of any personal encounter with God.
Please know Im not doubting anyone elses experience, or denying God's existence in any way. I have to just go by faith, not feelings or healings or experiences inward or outer, that i wish i had but cant lay claim to.

I for one am truly glad you are here seeking and asking questions. If you ever want to personal message me I'd be happy to reply. Friend request sent your way.

 

[JesusLives]

From a post by miri:
~~~~As for me I know with all my being that the God of the bible, who created the heavens and the earth and who gave Himself through God the son to die on a cross for me, does exist.I have experienced His love first hand in a supernatural way, I have had many prayers supernaturally answered which could not in any way be attributed to coincidence.I have received physical healing. He speaks to me in dreams, there has been many times He has urged me to do something and without knowing why I have obeyed and seen amazing things happen which in no way could be considered a coincidence. There have been been far too many incidents to even try to explain it all here to you.But have a read through the testimony forum, read through other people's experiences on here.~~~~

Dear Miri,
That is really wonderful for you, im being honest, thats really a wonderful thing, all those different encounters and verifications, God really loves you and He obviously does these things to prove that.

But can you understand theres some of us, or maybe its just me, idk, but
havent had those things happen.
Ive asked sincerely many times, prayed the sinners prayer a thousand times, been on my face in tears, begging forgiveness over the lifestyle and wasted life i lived......i did alot of drugs in my younger days, drank alot, only quit smoking cigarettes a year ago, bounced from job to job, no education, and now due to health, i cant work and probably never will again because i have no education,
so my life is now being forced to just watch the clock/calendar go by.

Im guessing you're probably a pretty good person, sure, made mistakes, but probably were more of a victim and God rescued you from people mistreating you or just lousy circumstances, so i see why God would love you and reveal Himself in all these wonderful ways to you.

I wish i could make the same claims.
Sometimes after being on my knees or face in tears, i realized i just have to get up and do something else, just feeling empty but glad God didn't strike me dead at least, that's what i deserve.

Maybe i didnt wait long enough, or i just arent serious enough, idk, i THINK
i am, but maybe somethings blocking me, or maybe i havent really done the sackcloth and ashes.....not that i would expect 99% of people to have to do that, most are pretty decent people, but maybe God is wanting me to at least be WILLING to do whatever it takes to try to repent of sin, be genuinely sorry, and wait long enough for Him to say ok, idk. I dont know why He has these encounters with some but not all. I just dont know what, if anything, i can do, to get that.

Any dreams i have, i usually wake up in terror, im glad it doesnt happen near as much as when i was a little kid, but still does once in a while.

I dont get 'feelings' of being loved, i dont really know what thats like. I just have to try to believe it when i read it or if someone says it.

And hope that when He returns, or i die, He'll accept me that He paid for my sins, but like they said in bible study the other night, its ultimately God's call by choosing or election.

When i read the testimonies of others, im happy for them at first, but after a while i have to admit it gets a bit hard to stay upbeat, because i see all these wonderful personal encounters God is having with all these people, but then i think about those of us that feel left out, and then that gets confirmed when some christians treat us or others with an air of superiority, when all were trying to do is get through life without killing ourselves or hurting anyone, and again, its probably alot easier when you have God giving you all these personal experiences to encourage you to keep going.

I dont mean to sound jealous, but i guess if i had to be honest, yeah, theres a little bit of envy going on.
I read testimonies, and sometimes they sound a bit like a kid telling others about all the goodies their parents give them, but the kid their saying it to is trying to be happy for them, but there standing there just wishing inside that they could have a toy or a piece of candy, too.

Funny, but i just now got convicted of being like that, the first kid, sometimes when i was little, not really thinking how that might have hurt some of my friends that maybe didnt have as much as i did growing up.

One more evidence of me not being a very good person.

And i guess what goes around, like karma now im getting
paid back, though not nearly as badly as i deserve, so i guess i have no right to complain, really. Im just saying its harder to believe when you know you're not a very good person, and when you dont have those God encounters like everybody else does.

You have touched my heart with your sincere desire for God and wanting what He has already done for you. You just reach out and accept the gift. There is no special feeling because quite frankly feelings can be changing, one day you are up another day you are down...so personally I don't trust my feelings.

What I do trust is the knowledge that God does not change and He loves all of us with an everlasting love. If you had been the only sinner on planet earth Jesus would have come and died for your sins so that you would have the bridge needed to become reconciled to God. The one and only thing we can do is choose to accept the free gift of salvation that has been handed to us by Jesus.

~Malachi 3: King James Version (KJV)[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts.


Believe me I still have a hard time saying I love God, because I don't take those words light heartedly. If I say I love someone I really mean it but with my half hearted commitment to God at times it has been hard for me to say I love God when my life is reflecting the error of my ways and going against His will. I can't just say those words knowing my actions show a different reality... but then I have been learning about God's grace and I have to trust that He has saved me and I pray and ask Him to send His Holy Spirit to live in my life and I have been learning to love God and my actions out of that love for Him start to line up with His will.

John 14:26"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.


God has imprinted you on the palms of his hands and loves you to the death of His Son Jesus. You can believe that with all your heart. All you need to do is accept it. You have been redeemed by the blood of God's Son.

Isaiah 49:~15"Can a woman forget her nursing child And have no compassion on the son of her womb? Even these may forget, but I will not forget you. 16"Behold, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands; Your walls are continually before Me.

Jerimiah 31:3The LORD appeared to him from afar, saying, "I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore I have drawn you with lovingkindness.

Don't you understand sometimes God uses people to share His love with others and I believe He is talking to you now through this thread... That is part of our job to be used by God to become His mouth, His feet and His hands to share the light of salvation to a dying world in need of Him.... I pray you accept His call to your heart... Hugs...Blond (Regulars know I refer to myself that way)

 

[JesusLives]

I believe YOU had a toe-stubbing encounter with the table leg.
But until i have one, i cant know, experientially, what it feels like.
So you really helped explain what I go through.
I believe in Jesus, and the bible says these things are written that you may know you have eternal life, so i believe the words written.
But those personal encounters where Jesus is with you and
you see or at least, feel Him, only apply to you.

I believe it happens for you, but not me yet, and im
afraid that as time goes on, i am getting more hard-hearted,
because more and more ppl are having these incredible
encounters, and i may get so bitter that if it ever does happen,
i wont believe it, or i'll say so what.

Thats probably what already happen to me, and i
just dont want to admit its too late.
Its the same way i cant believe any people love me, either.
I thought one did once, but i blew it bigtime,
and i have to live with that regret the rest of my life.
I just didnt have what it took to keep a relationship,
and i lost the only one i ever loved in that way.

Good thing for her, though, im glad i only ruined a half decade of her life,
and not many many years more. She's free of me, and im sure she thanks God
every day to be as far from me as she can get. I understand completely, and i pray i didnt do too much damage and that she is happy and blessed.
Btw, dont go by my profile, i shouldnt have checked married, but it's a long story, and Amy isn't my wife. Not my gf either. It's ok, though, we're fine.

No, i lost the one, and now i have a hard time believing if anyone tried to say they loved me, and including God. It's an experience thing, or lack of it.
I'm sorry, but I'm just being honest. So i believe to a degree, but without the personal encounters, it's hard to believe deep down inside.

Maybe what ive been calling belief is just masking doubt.
I dont know, i havent stubbed my toe in 30 years,
and maybe ive grown too numb to ever feel it again.
I cant really help it, though. Old age and lack of circulation can cause one to go numb.

The fact that you think you may have gone too far is really proof you haven't.... The reason being that if you had gone to far you wouldn't care at all or even be on this site seeking....Today is the day of salvation and it is a gift you just reach out and take. I loved Miri's post #88 to you good recommendations. If you want to develop a relationship with God it is a must to spend time with Him as she suggested. You wouldn't get or have a girlfriend if you didn't believe she was there or actually spend some quality time with her and it is the same with God. You invest time not because God needs it but because you need it.

By the way God is always there we are the ones that walk or run away and ignore Him. I can tell He is knocking at your heart's door if you have ever seen the pictures of Jesus standing at the door you will notice that a door knob is not on the outside of the door and that is because God will never force His way in. In order for Him to come in you have to open your hearts door. Now you will go and google pictures to see if there is a door knob....lol God loves you and you can take that to the bank....

 

[B1Davanda]

I for one am truly glad you are here seeking and asking questions. If you ever want to personal message me I'd be happy to reply. Friend request sent your way.

Thank you that's really nice of you, but you're a married woman, and in fact I was just given a friendly warning Sun. Night by a brother after church when I was discussing another friend here that I was so happy be communicating with, someone who has certainly had her share of struggles, but he said, 'hey, that's nice you want to help each other out, and it's definitely great that you care so much for each other, and you for her situation, but just be careful, it's still the internet, and the enemy knows how to take a good thing and twist it.
Not that anything did or would ever happen wrong, but the APPEARANCE of wrong can sometimes lead to problems, and you already know how people twist things and bring false accusations on that site, why do you want to invite more?'

Wow, i was stunned, because of how the very LAST thing on my mind often comes to the forefront of misunderstandings here, which leads to blindsides and divisions and a whole lot of nastiness.
It was a pretty keen observation from a good christian guy that doesn't even
indulge in chat sites.

But, the Lord knows my/our hearts, so I'm not that concerned, but then he said something else. He said, 'You know, if she was my wife, even though I trust her completely, I'm not too sure how I'd feel about her 'chatting' with a single guy on any website, let alone pming or emailing, and I'm pretty sure she wouldn't like me interacting with a single woman.'

Wow, again...that really hit me!
Again, I know my situation, and I know many of us here are a LOT more trustworthy than we even give OURSELVES credit for, there are some genuine, wonderful, people here who believe in Jesus with their whole heart, and want the best for Him and each other, in spite of the many personal problems, stages of growth, and even clashes over doctrine, there's real christian expression of love, forgiveness, and encouragement.

But it's no secret that that often gets drowned out by those with an ulterior agenda, and any slight opening they're given will turn into a wide-open doorway of destruction.
We've seen it time and again, and it happened to a good friend and brother here, who's really struggling as a result, so it's probably best to keep from pming until things are clearer, but I'd really like to talk with you more, only WITH tourist, too. But thank you sincerely, I really do value your friendship, and will respond with a hearty yes!

 

[Magenta]

.


​

 

[pottersclay]

So many good post of encouragement here ....this is the company I love to keep, this is the church I read about. Thank you Lord for blessing this chat and hearing the prayers of your people.
Have nothing more to add other than being blessed by good council.

 

[Karaka]

"It seems to me that the concept of faith, as some of you explain it, blends believing with knowing, in effect saying « i know because i believe » but that can't be it because knowing and believing are two very different things so if anybody could try to clarify that for me I would appreciate it."

Let's say, for the sake of clarity here, that I was coming over to pay you a visit. Just before I arrived you had inadvertently, stubbed your toe on a table lag, rather badly at that, but no broken bones, or blood letting. I arrive, and you are hobbling around, cussing up a storm about having stubbed yer toe.

Now, I don't know you stubbed yer toe, as I didn't see it. I, on the other hand, don't feel a thing! Yet, I can tell by your language and your hobbling around, that something happened that caused you to behave this way. "Maybe you should make a Dr.'s appointment, and have him check out that arthritis in your toe." I counseled.
"I don't HAVE arthritis in my toe! I stubbed it, on that table leg yonder!", you answer me back.
"I got my car right here, I'll run ya to the E.R. Maybe they can give ya something for that gout." I insisted.
"Why, oh why, do you not believe me, for something I know I feel?!" You stated, glaringly.
"Oh?", I wink at the audience.
Knowing, and believing?......2 separate things?
Faith, would be me, believing that which you say you know happened to you.

Jez an FYI........I still believe it's gout!!

Nayborbear


i get your point, but i don't see how the analogy really works in the case of God because while it is demonstrable, natural, provable, that you stubbed your toes and it is not goût or arhritis or what not, you guys are telling me it is different for God, that the senses are not involved and that their is no proof. So really your analogy is not relevant.