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C
I have the book "Eternal Security" Paperback by Charles Stanley. It has more than enough arguments that I could post here. The person who introduced the book to me said that he counted something like 50 or 100 arguments in the book.
Other than the book's arguments, I grew up listening to people who considered themselves reformers and they taught "Justification by Faith" (alone) and most people can't teach that doctrine today because they don't know it.
When I study the Bible, I start with the easy and clear verses which are the explicit verses instead of trying to start with the hard to understand verses and unclear verses which are implicit instead of being explicit.
John 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
The verse in John 5:24 says that we "hath" everlasting life. It doesn't say, "might have" or "could have" because it says "hath" everlasting life. And the next phrase is "shall not come into condemnation" so that is a truth claim and everyone who doesn't support Once Saved Always Saved is busy saying that if you don't do this or you don't do that then you will come into condemnation which is a denial of John 5:24.
Luke 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
So basically they are saying is that if you sin or don't live up to an unknown standard then Jesus came to destroy men's lives which is a contradiction to Luke 9:56.
So here is another clear verse to base salvation on:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
So there are still people who don't believe this verse and won't listen to these words of God.
So then people who don't listen say that we have to do works so I look again at the clear verses and quote:
John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
So then that isn't good enough for them because the people who don't believe OSAS still argue with me so then I look at the gospel? Where is the Gospel? It is found in 1 Corinthians 15 and I looked through it and I can't find works and I've called some teaching pastors up and got their assistant pastor on the phone and they argued with me and I had them read 1 Corinthians 15 and they couldn't find works in the passage.
1 Corinthians 15:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1 Corinthians1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1 Corinthians 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1 Corinthians 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1 Corinthians 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1 Corinthians 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
1 Corinthians15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1 Corinthians 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
These verses (1 Corinthians 15:1-11) are the gospel message and works is not mentioned.
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
If someone here teaches works as part of the gospel then they are teaching another gospel and Paul says to let them be accursed.
Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Galatians 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
What is the process for UN adoption in the Bible? Based on what sins are we UN adopted?
John 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation (judgment) ; but is passed from death unto life.
If it says we shall not come into judgment then where is the judgment to remove us as adopted sons and daughters?
“He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will”-Ephesians. 1:5
Why would God choose (Ephesians 1:4) us before the foundation of the world “that we should be holy and without blame before him in love” if His will was to unadopt us because of sin?
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
We are sealed with the spirit until the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30) and we were given “earnest” money (2 Cor. 1:22) or a down payment. The word “sealed” comes from signet ring (Strong's #4973) which means to stamp for security or preservation. We're stamped making us God's property. Sealed comes the word comes from the word signet which means that we're sealed from "Misappropriation" because signet means 'fenced in' just like God put a mark on Cain lest anyone should kill him (Genesis 4:15).
Another reason is that we aren’t our own and we were bought with a price making us God’s property:
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."-I Cor. 6:20
There are 144,000 that go into the tribulation “sealed”.
Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
They come out of the tribulation because they are sealed by God:
Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
God’s seal is a pledge of His promise that if we believe in Him, we shall not come into judgment (John 5:24) because “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will”-Ephesians. 1:5
2 Corinthians 1:21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, (NASB)
2 Corinthians 1:22 who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a [fn] pledge. (NASB)
So if God planned a good work in us with a pledge, will He be faithful to complete it?
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
If we can't get in then how would Paul get in because he murdered Christians and the law said that murderers should be put to death (Numbers 35) and that 1 John 3:15 says that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him and Moses who killed an Egyptian (Exodus 2:4) was at the mount of transfiguration (Mark 9:4)? The only way for Moses to be there is for someone to pay our ransom and take our place.
So someone is going to argue that Moses gets into heaven because Moses repented but what they fail to understand is that all the repentance necessary is in the word believe because the Bible says:
1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
In other words, you repent by believing because you can't turn TO God unless you turn FROM something which is repentance.
So I'm not out of arguments and I can post a lot more but there are still people who are going to argue that their works can get them into heaven and I find it funny because the wages of sin is death and their works cannot pay God to get out of dying and leaving this body in the grave. Their works cannot reverse the law of sin and death because it will never be payment so it follows that their works cannot pay for salvation so they think that grace (unmerited favor) is Jesus plus works and that is another gospel and that isn't unmerited favor because they are teaching merited favor and they are teaching works and works is not grace:
Romans 11:6 And if by grace (salvation), then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift (G5486 - charisma). For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift (G5486 - charisma) is of many offences unto justification.
Both Romans 5:15-16 say that salvation is a free gift which is unmerited favor and if someone tries to add works to the gospel then you have to pay for salvation which means the gospel is not free.
The definition of "free gift" is G5486-charisma which means: "a favour with which one receives without any merit of his own".
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
(C) 2016 Chuckt
There are those on this board who will be more difficult to argue with but I'm still working on material and they don't get salvation in the end because salvation was purchased by Jesus and they don't believe that because they believe in themselves because they believe they have to purchase salvation and add it to Jesus' works.
R
So I can Rob steal and kill and lie to my brother and use Him as usury and still inherit the kingdom of God. Further more can I dress like a girl and use their locker rooms and still have eternal life? The OSAS statement supports that and is the reason why America is the shape it's in. After all I was baptized at 6 months.
C
Do you sin? Yes, you do. Can you be saved in spite of having a sin nature? Yes, you can.
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Circle the word "all". You have sinned.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
So if you say that you have no sin, John says you are deceiving yourself.
If we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins even though you are keeping score.
Second, the presentation that you presented is fictitious because you can't prove who really believes and who just says they believe.
And I want you to answer whether your words contradict John 3:16, John 5:24 and John 6:29-31 because they do.
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Circle the word "all". You have sinned.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
So if you say that you have no sin, John says you are deceiving yourself.
If we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins even though you are keeping score.
Second, the presentation that you presented is fictitious because you can't prove who really believes and who just says they believe.
And I want you to answer whether your words contradict John 3:16, John 5:24 and John 6:29-31 because they do.
C
According to a Catholic site, Hitler was baptized in the Catholic church. They acknowledge that much.
Baptism does not save a person and it doesn't make someone a Christian.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Baby baptism does not save because babies cannot believe and Mark 16:16 says, "he that believeth not shall be damned". Babies cannot believe so they aren't saved as a result of believing because they can't.
And parents can't believe for their babies.
Baptism does not save a person and it doesn't make someone a Christian.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Baby baptism does not save because babies cannot believe and Mark 16:16 says, "he that believeth not shall be damned". Babies cannot believe so they aren't saved as a result of believing because they can't.
And parents can't believe for their babies.
R
I believe that whoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. With that in mind I also believe that a man can lose his salvation, if His faith is directed into something else it is clear and evident in scripture. We are saved by the cross of Christ are we not? If we place our faith in anything else we are endanger of losing our soul. How can I say I am of Christ and mingle with the world, How can I say I am of Christ and have a Rock concert in my church? How can I say Iam of Christ an conduct a gay marriage? How can I say to a man that I have lead to Christ and now he is in a homosexual relationship that he will inherit the kingdom of God.
What can I tell a man who has abused his daughter after He has accepted Christ? These should not happen. Sin is Sin and the end there of is death. We devise means to justify are sins and say well once saved always saved. It reminds me of the jews, they said we are seed of Abraham and therefore we must be blessed but God destroyed them. Why?
What can I tell a man who has abused his daughter after He has accepted Christ? These should not happen. Sin is Sin and the end there of is death. We devise means to justify are sins and say well once saved always saved. It reminds me of the jews, they said we are seed of Abraham and therefore we must be blessed but God destroyed them. Why?
C
Born Again is the only kind of Christian and it means second birth or born from above.
Just as you didn't birth yourself physically, you don't birth yourself spiritually because God did the work.
In the old testament, a man presented his sacrifice to God and held his hands on the neck of the animal as someone cut the neck of the animal because that person sinned so therefore the sin wasn't keeping them from sacrificing to God and the blood was an atonement or covering for sin. Because I sinned, I place my trust in the sacrifice that Jesus bore my sins on the cross and His blood made a once and for all atonement for my sin.
Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his (Jesus's) own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Now if we can sin and have that redemption taken away then it isn't eternal but Hebrews 9:12 says it is eternal and you can't change the text.
Just as you didn't birth yourself physically, you don't birth yourself spiritually because God did the work.
In the old testament, a man presented his sacrifice to God and held his hands on the neck of the animal as someone cut the neck of the animal because that person sinned so therefore the sin wasn't keeping them from sacrificing to God and the blood was an atonement or covering for sin. Because I sinned, I place my trust in the sacrifice that Jesus bore my sins on the cross and His blood made a once and for all atonement for my sin.
Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his (Jesus's) own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Now if we can sin and have that redemption taken away then it isn't eternal but Hebrews 9:12 says it is eternal and you can't change the text.