The "Rapture"?

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abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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Brother in Christ dp,

I agree with everything you said in post #458.......I think.

My point is that for some reason, people don't associate the beast that kills the two witnesses in the 7th trumpet as a nation of people.

If it is a nation of people how is it that they are in the pit, and what does it mean, being "in the pit"? How long were they there?

Any ideas?
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
Brother in Christ dp,

I agree with everything you said in post #458.......I think.

My point is that for some reason, people don't associate the beast that kills the two witnesses in the 7th trumpet as a nation of people.

If it is a nation of people how is it that they are in the pit, and what does it mean, being "in the pit"? How long were they there?

Any ideas?
Can I answer? Follow the symbolism:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition..

John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

2 Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Revelation 17:11
The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

Rev 14:
[SUP] 9 [/SUP]Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [SUP]10 [/SUP]he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

The BEAST, an EMPIRE of unruly men (the "sea") are deceived by Satan into thinking he (Satan =Allah) is God. For those who do not repent, they are condemned to physical and spiritual death. Men are of the "dust of the earth" this corruptible earth. The Beast is of the earth or of men. Judas is the Son of Perdition, in other words, the Son of Satan. The Man of Sin will also be the Son of Satan as both are as was Cain. So the symbolism is that an EVIL, SATAN FOLLOWING (deceived into thinking Satan is God), EMPIRE collection of 10 states will wage war against the 2 churches and defeat them. These men who follow Islam and do not repent are condemned to eternal damnation already, if they don't repent. They are singles out as being of Satan more so than any other group. I know it sounds extreme but that's how I read it.
 
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abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
Brother PlainWord,

The beast of Dan 7&2, isn't it Rome?

Aren't the 10 nation toes partly Rome and clay, showing their weakness? The toes aren't shown growing back together and cannot be as strong as they were because of the clay.

I would like to suggest that Rome (the beast), is not as strong as it once was (the earth beast has no army, image) , so it deceives the Kings of the East (Iran- Euphrates, Islam), into attacking Israel, restored to Jerusalem, present day.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
Brother in Christ dp,

I agree with everything you said in post #458.......I think.

My point is that for some reason, people don't associate the beast that kills the two witnesses in the 7th trumpet as a nation of people.

If it is a nation of people how is it that they are in the pit, and what does it mean, being "in the pit"? How long were they there?

Any ideas?
No need to read anything into the Scripture, it's written plainly enough; the problem you may be having is 'accepting' the actual idea it is revealing...

Rev 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
KJV

The beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit is Satan, also called the dragon per Rev.12:9. It means Satan is coming to this earth in our material dimension for that 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period of Rev.11. If it had said only the beast of the bottomless pit does that, it would exclude any idea of his appearing on earth to do that. But the Scripture says he "ascendeth" out of the bottomless pit, meaning coming to our dimension.

No surprise, because we are further shown that in the next chapter of Rev.12:7-17 about the war in heaven and his being cast down to this earth with his angels to make war upon the saints. So the problem most have is with actually believing the Scripture literally like it is written.

Now then, does that have to mean the two witnesses have to be killed specifically by Satan's own hand? No. It can mean that Satan will order them killed, which does not detract from how that is written.

But is that idea of the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit mean a nation? No, because Rev.9 and Rev.17 and Rev.12 further define who that actually is, i.e., Satan himself.
 
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popeye

Guest
Rev 14 anyone?

Why would Jesus make such a critical mistake of a gathering before the supposed dead resurrection of rev 20?

Could 1 thes 4 be a misprint?
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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Brother PlainWord,

The beast of Dan 7&2, isn't it Rome?

Aren't the 10 nation toes partly Rome and clay, showing their weakness? The toes aren't shown growing back together and cannot be as strong as they were because of the clay.

I would like to suggest that Rome (the beast), is not as strong as it once was (the earth beast has no army, image) , so it deceives the Kings of the East (Iran- Euphrates, Islam), into attacking Israel, restored to Jerusalem, present day.
Daniel discusses 4 Beasts. Rome is the Fourth Beast. Dan 2 discusses how Rome breaks up into two legs and feet which were Rome's Western and Eastern Empires. The five toes on the Western foot were and are today, Spain, England, France, Germany and Italy.

Rome's Eastern Empire AKA the Byzantine Empire headquartered in what was Constantinople (named after Roman Emperor Constantine) and is now Istanbul was the last of the Roman Empire to fall. This empire of the East ruled over the ancestors of what are today the Muslims of Turkey and the Near and Middle East. It's five toes were Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran and Egypt.

Rome (Iron) does not mix with Muslims (Clay). There is a very big reason for this and it's more than ideology, religion and genetics. It's much more than that. But I don't want to really get into it here because it would blow some minds who have yet to grasp easier concepts such as the use of symbolism. I don't want them to trip off line completely. But you seem more in tune than most (meant as a complement;)). I will give you a couple of passages to consider. Email me if you want to discuss this off line.

Gen 6: [SUP]4 [/SUP]There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Dan 2: [SUP]43 [/SUP]As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay

Jud: ...as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about[SUP][c][/SUP] by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; [SUP]13 [/SUP]raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, [SUP]15 [/SUP]to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

Rev 13: [SUP]8 [/SUP]All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
Brother PlainWord,

The beast of Dan 7&2, isn't it Rome?

Aren't the 10 nation toes partly Rome and clay, showing their weakness? The toes aren't shown growing back together and cannot be as strong as they were because of the clay.

I would like to suggest that Rome (the beast), is not as strong as it once was (the earth beast has no army, image) , so it deceives the Kings of the East (Iran- Euphrates, Islam), into attacking Israel, restored to Jerusalem, present day.
The legs, feet and toes of Rome are in the past. Focus now on the horns. Its the horns that will and are re-forming the 7th head which was mortally wounded but now coming back to life. The 7th Kingdom of John was the Ottoman Empire. It died in 1922 having been broken up by the powers of Europe (England and France mostly). It was forced into countries by geography and not ethnicity/religion, Kurds with Sunni and with Shia. This is why we've seen so much ethnic cleansing in this part of the world. Back to the Horns. They are key. Yes, they came out of Rome and Daniel discussies them here.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings.

Now we are in the end times when the above starts to happen. These are the same ten horns mentioned by John in Rev 13 + 17.

10+1-3=8

When the Little Horn arises and uproots 3 countries it will leave 8 countries to come up against Israel in the final days during the Great Tribulation of Israel. These horns (countries) making up the rebirth of the Islamic Empire, the final Caliphate are identified here:

Eze 38: Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, [SUP]2 [/SUP]“Son of man, set your face against (1) Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, (2) Meshech, and (3) Tubal, and prophesy against him, [SUP]3 [/SUP]and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. [SUP]4 [/SUP]I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords. [SUP]5 [/SUP](4) Persia, (5) Ethiopia, and (6) Libya are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; [SUP]6 [/SUP](7) Gomer and all its troops; the (8) house of Togarmah from the far north and all its troops—many people are with you.

 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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Rev 14 anyone?

Why would Jesus make such a critical mistake of a gathering before the supposed dead resurrection of rev 20?

Could 1 thes 4 be a misprint?
Not a mis-print. A mis-read by you and many others.

1 Thes 4 doesn't deal with Christ's return. It deals with God the Father coming and bringing those who "sleep in Jesus."

"even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus."

God will bring, not Jesus will bring.

When this happens, Christ delivers the kingdom to the Father as Paul teaches in 1 Cor 15.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]"Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father"

Christ gathers or collects the ELECT when HE returns, those who fled the Great Tribulation in Israel.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

[SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having[SUP][b][/SUP] His Father’s name written on their foreheads.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, [SUP]15 [/SUP]to execute judgment on all...
 
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popeye

Guest
Not a mis-print. A mis-read by you and many others.

1 Thes 4 doesn't deal with Christ's return. It deals with God the Father coming and bringing those who "sleep in Jesus."

"even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus."

God will bring, not Jesus will bring.

When this happens, Christ delivers the kingdom to the Father as Paul teaches in 1 Cor 15.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]"Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father"

Christ gathers or collects the ELECT when HE returns, those who fled the Great Tribulation in Israel.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

[SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having[SUP][b][/SUP] His Father’s name written on their foreheads.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, [SUP]15 [/SUP]to execute judgment on all...
It is a gathering. You dodged that.

Nice dodge,but even with your prejudiced omissions,it says the dead rise FIRST.

So,you have a major flaw in your deal my friend.

You formulated before examining the whole
 
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popeye

Guest
I wonder what kind of legitimate argument they can mount against a gathering before their false formulations.

I do believe they have been utterly dispatched by the word.
 
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popeye

Guest
Any others?

Should be so easy.

So simple

So basic

Ok,lets omit 1 thes 4.

Lets just use your own logic.
You guys say rev 20 is the first resurrection.

So we can conclude there is a gathering before the dead are raised

Now your doctrine has a logical escape. A legitimate save. Your doctrine lives!!


(just make real sure,in your mind,you never read 1 thes 4)
 
Mar 11, 2016
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0
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Sorry - the "rapture" comes from the interpretation of several influential people who read a book that was re-written several times. None of it straight forward, none of it spelling out anything real. Most of it sounds like someone on drugs if you ask me. I don't think their will be a "rapture". There may be a son exploding or something, or some cosmic ray that burs the earth. But I bet we see it coming when it does happen and I bet we know why it happened. Not some fictional story, but facts. People disappearing, really???
 
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popeye

Guest
Sorry - the "rapture" comes from the interpretation of several influential people who read a book that was re-written several times. None of it straight forward, none of it spelling out anything real. Most of it sounds like someone on drugs if you ask me. I don't think their will be a "rapture". There may be a son exploding or something, or some cosmic ray that burs the earth. But I bet we see it coming when it does happen and I bet we know why it happened. Not some fictional story, but facts. People disappearing, really???
You mean kinda like you just disappeared? Right before our eyes?
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
It is a gathering. You dodged that.

Nice dodge,but even with your prejudiced omissions,it says the dead rise FIRST.

So,you have a major flaw in your deal my friend.

You formulated before examining the whole
Correct, the dead rise first. This is the teaching of both Paul (1 Thes 4:16) and John as we see here:

Rev 11: [SUP]12 [/SUP]And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.

The resurrection happens at the end of the second woe. Then we have a big earthquake where 7,000 people were killed.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell.

This is the same earthquake (and the only one mentioned by Zechariah) as we see in the below.

Zech 14:[SUP] 3 [/SUP]Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west,Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You.

You see the above is discussing God the Father. In case you aren't familiar with the term, THE LORD MY GOD, that would be the Father. He comes too and notice who He brings with Him? ALL THE SAINTS, not some of them but ALL OF THEM. You see, the resurrection happens first, just an hour before the "Day of the Lord" begins. The Day of the Lord is the Coming of God, the Father. Did you think God wasn't coming? What did you think, that God was going to stay in heaven all by Himself? That would be a sad mistake to think that.

The above passage, "THUS THE LORD MY GOD WILL COME, AND ALL THE SAINTS WITH YOU" is exactly the same thing Paul tells the Thessalonians.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

I don't know why people think that Jesus is bringing all the Saints with Him. There is no passage which teaches this.

Rev 11: [SUP]17 [/SUP]saying:“We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come,Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.

You see, the Day of the Lord, Return of God the Father, is accompanied by a great earthquake which is part of His Wrath. Why is God angry? Obviously because His children were under a vicious attack by the Islamic forces of Satan which Jesus calls, "Great Tribulation." This epic battle is discussed all over the place. Zechariah discusses it above and Ezekiel discusses it below:

Eze 38: [SUP]18 [/SUP]“And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” says the Lord God, “that My fury will show in My face. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken: ‘Surely in that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel...

Here is that Great Earthquake again IN THE LAND OF ISRAEL. Gog comes up against Israel and the LORD GOD gets really angry, furiously angry as it says. This would be the Wrath of God. Both the Father and Son come with Wrath.

...hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

The wicked are trying to hide from both the Father and Son.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!

Of our Lord AND His Christ!! See that?
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
I wonder what kind of legitimate argument they can mount against a gathering before their false formulations.

I do believe they have been utterly dispatched by the word.
Christ sends His Angels out to gather His ELECT. His ELECT are gathered to Him.

Mat 24: [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

But first the wicked are taken as we see in Mat 13: [SUP]41 [/SUP]The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, [SUP]42 [/SUP]and will cast them into the furnace of fire...

As I've told you, you don't want to be the one taken.

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

Christ gathers His ELECT. But first He gets rid of the Tares and the Chaff, those are burned.

Mat 3: [SUP]12 [/SUP]His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Why are you having such a hard time understanding this?
 
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popeye

Guest
Christ sends His Angels out to gather His ELECT. His ELECT are gathered to Him.

Mat 24: [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

But first the wicked are taken as we see in Mat 13: [SUP]41 [/SUP]The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, [SUP]42 [/SUP]and will cast them into the furnace of fire...

As I've told you, you don't want to be the one taken.

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

Christ gathers His ELECT. But first He gets rid of the Tares and the Chaff, those are burned.

Mat 3: [SUP]12 [/SUP]His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Why are you having such a hard time understanding this?
Your model is formulated AFTER THE MILLINEUM.

YOU ARE POSSIBLY THE ONLY HUMAN ON THE PLANET WITH THAT MODEL.

YOU HAVE NEVER PROVIDED A LINK TO ANOTHER HUMANOID WITH YOUR VIEWS.

I CAN UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING ABOUT YOUR DOCTRINE,THAT IS THE BAD PART.

YOU ARE DOING WITH YOUR MODEL,WHAT IRWIN BAXTER DOES WITH HIS.... PRIVATELY INTERPRETING,NOT ACCOUNTABLE,AND NOT CONNECTED TO THE BODY.

LONE RANGER FORMAT.

Now,what I have proven,is that there is a gathering DURING THE GT.

SO,anyone with a RESURRECTION AFTER ANY GATHERING,has perverted 1thes 4

So stop acting like you answered this dynamic.


You jumped completely over it a thousand years to the millennium where bad people are thrown in the LOF.


What part of the dead in Christ rising FIRST do you not understand?
 
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popeye

Guest
Correct, the dead rise first. This is the teaching of both Paul (1 Thes 4:16) and John as we see here:

Rev 11: [SUP]12 [/SUP]And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.

The resurrection happens at the end of the second woe. Then we have a big earthquake where 7,000 people were killed.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell.

This is the same earthquake (and the only one mentioned by Zechariah) as we see in the below.

Zech 14:[SUP] 3 [/SUP]Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west,Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You.

You see the above is discussing God the Father. In case you aren't familiar with the term, THE LORD MY GOD, that would be the Father. He comes too and notice who He brings with Him? ALL THE SAINTS, not some of them but ALL OF THEM. You see, the resurrection happens first, just an hour before the "Day of the Lord" begins. The Day of the Lord is the Coming of God, the Father. Did you think God wasn't coming? What did you think, that God was going to stay in heaven all by Himself? That would be a sad mistake to think that.

The above passage, "THUS THE LORD MY GOD WILL COME, AND ALL THE SAINTS WITH YOU" is exactly the same thing Paul tells the Thessalonians.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

I don't know why people think that Jesus is bringing all the Saints with Him. There is no passage which teaches this.

Rev 11: [SUP]17 [/SUP]saying:“We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come,Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.

You see, the Day of the Lord, Return of God the Father, is accompanied by a great earthquake which is part of His Wrath. Why is God angry? Obviously because His children were under a vicious attack by the Islamic forces of Satan which Jesus calls, "Great Tribulation." This epic battle is discussed all over the place. Zechariah discusses it above and Ezekiel discusses it below:

Eze 38: [SUP]18 [/SUP]“And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” says the Lord God, “that My fury will show in My face. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken: ‘Surely in that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel...

Here is that Great Earthquake again IN THE LAND OF ISRAEL. Gog comes up against Israel and the LORD GOD gets really angry, furiously angry as it says. This would be the Wrath of God. Both the Father and Son come with Wrath.

...hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

The wicked are trying to hide from both the Father and Son.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!

Of our Lord AND His Christ!! See that?
Again,your deal is busted

You gloss over the GATHERINGS.

You jump to your verses WITH NO HARMONY OF GODS PLAN.

YOU LITERALLY MAKE STUFF UP.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY WE HAVE TO BE CONNECTED. ON OUR OWN,WE WILL PERVERT SCRIPTURE.

PLAY IT BACKWARDS

EVERY SINGLE CULT HAS THAT VERY MODEL.(private interpretation)



THE REASON HERBERT ARMSTRONGS MINISTRY HAS MODIFIED ITS ERROR IN FAVOR OF TRUTH IS BECAUSE THEY REBUKED OVER AND OVER BY BEREANS.

SAME WITH WATCHTOWER. I STILL CLEAN THEIR CLOCK EVERY TIME I ENCOUNTER THEM.

They are mostly oblivious to it. But they are miles better than they were 30 years ago.

It was Bereans rebuking them that brought down some of their silly ideas.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,924
934
113
44
Any others?

Should be so easy.

So simple

So basic

Ok,lets omit 1 thes 4.

Lets just use your own logic.
You guys say rev 20 is the first resurrection.

So we can conclude there is a gathering before the dead are raised

Now your doctrine has a logical escape. A legitimate save. Your doctrine lives!!


(just make real sure,in your mind,you never read 1 thes 4)
Just wow man, your arrogance, disrespectful method, and just plain ridiculously ugly manner when dealing with this subject is just plain embarrassing. I really think you should check yourself because the way you are acting is smearing Jesus name through the dirt. No matter what your view is on the timing of the rapture there is no excuse to talk to, or act this way to others. Despicable man, and it happens every time you address this subject, regardless if you are right, wrong, or other doesn't excuse you from basic manners and love.
 
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popeye

Guest
Just wow man, your arrogance, disrespectful method, and just plain ridiculously ugly manner when dealing with this subject is just plain embarrassing. I really think you should check yourself because the way you are acting is smearing Jesus name through the dirt. No matter what your view is on the timing of the rapture there is no excuse to talk to, or act this way to others. Despicable man, and it happens every time you address this subject, regardless if you are right, wrong, or other doesn't excuse you from basic manners and love.
What a nasty hateful post.

Take a break from the forum.

Rarely do I see that much venom in one believer
 
P

popeye

Guest
Just wow man, your arrogance, disrespectful method, and just plain ridiculously ugly manner when dealing with this subject is just plain embarrassing. I really think you should check yourself because the way you are acting is smearing Jesus name through the dirt. No matter what your view is on the timing of the rapture there is no excuse to talk to, or act this way to others. Despicable man, and it happens every time you address this subject, regardless if you are right, wrong, or other doesn't excuse you from basic manners and love.
Take it line by line.

Easy? That offends?
Basic? That offends?
simple? That offends?

Ok,I got to admit,those are a little strong..

But your hatred is a good thing,right?