Once saved, always saved

[Chuckt]

Paul said to not grieve the holy spirit for a very good reason: it will depart from those who practice wickedness. Therefore, the seal is the lord knowing those who depart from iniquity.

A froward heart shall depart from me: I will not know a wicked [person]. Psalms 101:4​

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

You are quoting half a verse and inserting another verse. We are sealed until the day of redemption.

 

[Chuckt]

1. I wasnt talking to you
2nd This is the last time you answer one of my post and me reading your pooism.
Your blocked. God bless you

If you have the truth, you wouldn't be afraid of hearing stuff you don't agree with.

 

[Chuckt]

IF (conditional statement) we confess our sins and have fellowship with God.

And when I believed God for righteousness, I admitted I was a sinner and asked for for forgiveness once.

 

[Chuckt]

I see where most are coming from, yes Jesus died once and for all, this is fact, but we do not become automatons of Godliness. We have to pick up our cross daily, We have to do, i.e. pick up.

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,but only a fearful expectation of judgement and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

Please read my post on Hebrews 6:4 and Hebrews 10:24 and tell me again you still believe this.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...oes-not-mean-you-can-lose-your-salvation.html

 

[Chuckt]

Amen! Notice that in 1 Corinthians 6:9, Paul said - Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? The unrighteous are unbelievers who have not received the forgiveness of sins, so such people have not been washed, sanctified or justified.

In Galatians 5:19, Paul said - Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

In 1 John 3:9, John said - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

That is a good question. I believe Galatians 5:19 and the correlating Ephesians passage is talking about those who are under the law and if you are a non-Christian who doesn't believe then you are under the law.

The problem then becomes who is saved and who isn't because if you make a blanket statement for everyone, people are going to think they are saved and not everyone who thinks they are a Christian are not.

The other issue is that there are people with a said faith who wrongly believe they are Christian who are sinning and aren't which you have to put under the law.

 

[gb9]

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

You are quoting half a verse and inserting another verse. We are sealed until the day of redemption.

legalism 101- cut and paste and connect verses to make the Bible say what you want it say instead of what it actually says.

 

[Chuckt]

legalism 101- cut and paste and connect verses to make the Bible say what you want it say instead of what it actually says.

Yes. It is editing.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

IF (conditional statement) we confess our sins and have fellowship with God.

Hello PurerInHeart
Are you talking about 1st John 1:9?

Many misunderstand that verse.

 

[Grace777x70]

There is a whole thread about 1 John 1 where people can see the different view points if interested.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ion-confession-1-john-1-9-sin-confession.html

 

[seed_time_harvest]

There is a whole thread about 1 John 1 where people can see the different view points if interested.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ion-confession-1-john-1-9-sin-confession.html

Thanks for posting the location, Brother Grace.I used to have doubts about OSAS until a Brother on here said something and a light went off and now I understand.

 

[Grace777x70]

Thanks for posting the location, Brother Grace.I used to have doubts about OSAS until a Brother on here said something and a light went off and now I understand.

I had the same thing happen to me. Only in security can we go on to maturity as we know Jesus and the Father for who they really are towards us and we grow in the grace, love and knowledge of our Lord Jesus in all that He has already done for us!

 

[John146]

A daily devotion through email today:

1 Timothy 4:1 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"

Introductory Thoughts

It is always a painful experience to see those who once walked with the Lord now walking contrary to Him. Families and friends are hurt because of those now living contrary to God’s dictates. Paul warned Timothy that this departure from the faith would take place in the last days. A firm and consistent stand for the faith would give way to an increase in the influence of seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. No doubt, this has occurred since the inception of the New Testament church, but Paul warned that it would increase to its apex in the latter times. In response to the coming danger, Paul admonished the young preacher to be “nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine”(1 Timothy 4:6). This shows that the best defense against departing from the truth is a consistent feasting upon the truth.

 

[bikerchaz]

It strikes me people have redefined what walking in the flesh actually is.

Their concept is the flesh means anything centred on the person rather than on Jesus.
What Paul and the apostles meant was the lusts of the flesh, sexual desire, gluttony, covetousness etc.

It then gets confusing when people say walking in the flesh to mean going to the church because you want to, rather than God called you. In their eyes it is sinful to do things this way, and certain members will condemn christians for doing good things because they think they are a good idea and not because the Holy Spirit individually commanded them to do it.

Their view of salvation is mystical and transcendant rather than Jesus saying, if you obey my commands, I will show myself to you. This implies walking in the ways of Jesus is the first step to following Him, rather than a superspiritual experience is the most important issue.

Once you become so spiritually minded, born from on high into eternity, how could you be unmade as a new creation.
But if the reality is more closer to being like a ghost as a human, and as we walk with Christ we become more real, this gives a different picture.

It is not surprising that these different models result in different theology. What is surprising is the condemnation and animosity and pure slagging off as following satan and having evil spirits, which sounds very superstitious. It is no surprise then these groups often talk about territorial spirits, and christians can be possessed, and the church needs to discern the Jezebel spirit etc. I had one person claiming a lot of churches were led by possessed people.

Now if these groups seem to have a lot of experience of demon possession it might suggest they have some serious theological problems, issues with purity, and the Holy Spirit, and a lack of discernment. But they are always very keen to condemn everyone who takes a different view, even if it is literally just another point of view with no spiritual implications.

I therefore do not hold much weight to their convictions about OSAS as the fruit of the authority is thorns and brambles.

A bit of wisdom, thank you. What will happen will happen, it's down to all of us to run our own race.

 

[PeterJens]

I notice people are defining the meaning of words written in greek on their general use rather than on the biblical use of the word. The reason I say this is simple.

If you equate the idea the self identity is sin then there is no salvation. If you can become taken over by God and self or identity disappears were are mere shells or robots with no free will or choice. If we have individuality and still have fellowship with God, communion, love, sharing heart and soul, then self can be redeemed and is not evil. It means I can do things that are good. I can love, feel, breath, feel happy and sad and still be blameless and honouring to the Lord.

What is sinful is about relationship dishonour, action in thought and deed, chosen, which is driven by selfish focus alone.
At heart this comes down to what we are as sinners and what we are as people of God. To the mystics we are a new spirit created in new birth. To traditionalists we are born again, refreshed, cleansed, walking in our salvation where our bodies, hearts and soul and transformed. We are born into the power of victory overcoming sin.

Now this is a different model to a new perfect spirit born into a fleshly and lost carnal soul. As time goes the spirit takes over and the flesh dies. Now people may want to argue one is evil and the other good, but all I am pointing out is they are different and lead to the discussions we are having. It is up to you to choose which you believe.

It is why when I am quiet in a room I cry "Abba Father". When a child left in a nursery cries out for a parent, there is no theology just a relationship understanding. Jesus is saying this is our reality. If we can agree on this, then I say Amen.

If you call me a work of satan, following satan, then unfortunately I cannot have fellowship with you, because fundamentally you are insulting my walk with Jesus. It was never I who started this kind of language, but I counsel you, this is a dangerous road to walk.

 

[mikpat]

Faith and deeds are pretty well explained in James, Chapter 2. If faith is all you need, then why bother with the Ten Commandments, and the Beatitudes. If I commit an act of adultery in a moment of weakness, but I have faith,,,,,is the adulterous act out the window, forgotten?

There was a woman, a "Bible Only" devotee who left her husband for whtever reasons. Now there is in the Bible something about a spouse who ups and leaves her husband or wife. The woman, to get around the sinful act stated that she considered her husband dead and therefore was allowed to marry of have a boyfriend, whatever. Seems her faith was the issue——??

Since the woman had no mention of repentance, she felt perfectly saved by her faith……. her personal beliefs, her own moral self determination, her faith.

DEUS EST CARITAS

 

[John146]

Faith and deeds are pretty well explained in James, Chapter 2. If faith is all you need, then why bother with the Ten Commandments, and the Beatitudes. If I commit an act of adultery in a moment of weakness, but I have faith,,,,,is the adulterous act out the window, forgotten?

There was a woman, a "Bible Only" devotee who left her husband for whtever reasons. Now there is in the Bible something about a spouse who ups and leaves her husband or wife. The woman, to get around the sinful act stated that she considered her husband dead and therefore was allowed to marry of have a boyfriend, whatever. Seems her faith was the issue——??

Since the woman had no mention of repentance, she felt perfectly saved by her faith……. her personal beliefs, her own moral self determination, her faith.

DEUS EST CARITAS

Man has never been successful trying to make James a christian epistle. James is a Jewish epistle to the twelve tribes, not the body of Christ. Paul is speaking directly to those in the body of Christ. Go with what the Spirit gave to Paul to the Church.

 

[Arigirl]

To understand the answer to the question posed here, let's first look at the definition of what it is to be saved. What is salvation? Sal*va*tion. :deliverance from sin and its consequences. So, if you keep sinning, then you're not really saved. If you watch porn every night and are a habitual liar, you're not saved because you're still sinning. That's like saying I'm saved from debt, but I keep gambling and bringing it up without repentance. And you can say, "Well, if you repent all the time, then it's okay." In some ways that is true, but not fully. Let's define repentance: "[FONT=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif]sincere regret or remorse." If you sincerely regret something, you're not quick to do it again. You may at some point stumble, but it's not all the time. You don't just say, "Sorry" half heartedly and expect God to buy your lie and call that repentance. It's a matter of your heart. Examine yourself, and hold your salvation with "fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12. Make sure you're always being "[/FONT]sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" 1 Peter 5:8

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a great 42 minute video on biblical repentance. This word has been "hi-jacked" by religion from it's real use in biblical times.


[video=vimeo;112172173]https://vimeo.com/112172173[/video]

 

[valiant]

Man has never been successful trying to make James a christian epistle. James is a Jewish epistle to the twelve tribes, not the body of Christ. Paul is speaking directly to those in the body of Christ. Go with what the Spirit gave to Paul to the Church.

Nonsense. James is a perfectly Christian letter, written to the whole church as its content shows (no one coud have written only to Jews and not have dealt with relations with Gentiles). Writing as the leading member of the Jerusalem church he felt perfectly justified in addressing the church as the twelve tribes.

 

[valiant]

To understand the answer to the question posed here, let's first look at the definition of what it is to be saved. What is salvation? Sal*va*tion. :deliverance from sin and its consequences. So, if you keep sinning, then you're not really saved. If you watch porn every night and are a habitual liar, you're not saved because you're still sinning. That's like saying I'm saved from debt, but I keep gambling and bringing it up without repentance. And you can say, "Well, if you repent all the time, then it's okay." In some ways that is true, but not fully. Let's define repentance: "sincere regret or remorse." If you sincerely regret something, you're not quick to do it again. You may at some point stumble, but it's not all the time. You don't just say, "Sorry" half heartedly and expect God to buy your lie and call that repentance. It's a matter of your heart. Examine yourself, and hold your salvation with "fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12. Make sure you're always being "sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" 1 Peter 5:8

Salvation is GOD'S WORK not ours. He takes charge and saves from beginning to end. See Eph 2.8-9; Tit 3.5; Phil 2.13. You are assuming you do it. But then you are young